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Goodbye Jesus

Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?


Lyra

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You only believe it is true because you were raised/told it is true. That does not make it true.

 

As I have said before, I see God's hand in where a believer is placed in the world.  The majority will always be among the family of believers.  Thus when Israel was following God,  the majority were placed within Israel.  As God wanted His people to be taught His Word.   The same with the Church and Western Civilization.  During these times the majority of His people are placed within the West which was highly Christianized.   And even before Israel you had the line of Seth and the line of Cain.  So the believers would be found mostly and possibly only in the line of Seth.

 

So, I was raised by Christians who were raised by Christians etc.  Because God placed me there to be taught His ways.

 

Stranger

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Faith in the Christians God, and Christ is the only truth.  Because Jesus Christ is the Truth.  Thus it is not a question of 'more true'.   

 

Stranger

 

Okay, how is it true then?

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Yet this does not stop the believer from declaring the Gospel of Jesus Christ.   As we leave the result to the Holy Spirit.  We declare Him and let the chips fall.

 

Stranger

 

So you don't even care about the problems within the Bible, such as contradictions, absurdities, fabricated prophetic fulfillments, and divinely sanctioned injustices? If that's the case, then you're completely hopeless, and any discussion with you is a complete waste of time (except for the sake of lurkers who can see how nonsensical you are).

 

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Okay, how is it true then?

 

It is true because it is true.  

 

Stranger

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It is true because it is true.  

 

Stranger

 

How do you know it is true?

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...

only God knows those who are His.

...then I know they are one of His....

Stranger

 

Note the contradiction.

 

I'm done with this one.  I conclude he is a waste of time.

 

If he is ignored, it's quite possible he will go somewhere else to masturbate.

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So you don't even care about the problems within the Bible, such as contradictions, absurdities, fabricated prophetic fulfillments, and divinely sanctioned injustices? If that's the case, then you're completely hopeless, and any discussion with you is a complete waste of time (except for the sake of lurkers who can see how nonsensical you are).

 

 

No. I am not worried about the accusations against the Bible.

 

Stranger

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How do you know it is true?

 

(1John 2:20,27)

 

Stranger

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Note the contradiction.

 

I'm done with this one.  I conclude he is a waste of time.

 

If he is ignored, it's quite possible he will go somewhere else to masturbate.

 

I'm sure my time here will be short.   

 

Stranger

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"I know it is true because it is true." That is the most asinine thing you've said yet. I agree with others; there is no point to talking to you because you aren't even willing to open your mind to actual discussion. Just a bombardment of your feeble minded points.

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No. I am not worried about the accusations against the Bible.

 

Stranger

 

The problems in the Bible are what opened my eyes. The more I studied to "grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," the more I realized that it is not the perfect word of God.

 

To not even care about the internal problems with your religion (let alone external problems) speaks volumes about how messed up you really are.

 

I almost envy your ignorant bliss, but I ultimately feel sorry for you.

 

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Well, I don't believe God loves everybody.   But, only God knows those who are His.

 

No, I don't think your god knows anything at all. (Fictional beings are like that, y'know.) :P

 

By the way, how are your Mad Christian Skillz coming along?  Healed any amputees lately?  Raised anyone from the dead?

 

Didn't think so.

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"Well, I don't believe God loves everybody."

 

Heretic! I thought you believed the Bible!!!

 

"God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

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Well, because I believe that Christianity is the only truth in the world concerning God and salvation, then yes it only works for those who are Christian.  The faith is based on the Person of Jesus Christ and being born-again.

 

Faith has always been necessary for salvation in both Old and New Testaments.  

 

Faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour.  (Acts 8:26-37)  (Acts 13:37-39)

 

Stranger

     I'm trying to understand this.

 

     My understanding of xianity is so people are turned to god through jesus.  So if Adam and Eve personally knew god they couldn't have salvation because jesus is absent from the equation even though the goal is met.

 

     I would say it is exceeded since how many can say they personally know a god?  Can gain knowledge and insight from a god?  Not through some nebulous "spirit" that seems to differ between people and interpretations (if not merely silence and feelings) but a god that interacts in a literal way.

 

     So why would this not be acceptable?  Where does faith come into play once you've actually, personally, interacted with god?  At this point you simply know god.  No faith required.  So what faith would someone like Adam and Eve need?  What would that accomplish?

 

          mwc

 

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@Stranger,

 

Have you ever given yourself a "stranger?" It's when you sit on your hand until it goes numb and then masturbate with that hand. Please advise.

 

Yours,

 

EP

:yelrotflmao: I just spit out my diet hot chocolate!! Are you serious? 

 

I wonder if girls can do this? I was just askin' for a good friend of mine.......:rolleyes:

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"Well, I don't believe God loves everybody."

 

Heretic! I thought you believed the Bible!!!

 

"God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

 

The 'world' here does not mean all people in the world.  The 'world' here speaks to the world order.   If it is used to speak to all people, then in (1John 2:15) the believer is told not to love anyone.  

 

God hated Esau long before he was born. (Rom.9:11-13)

 

Stranger

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Of course, you can pick and choose for words to mean whatever you want them to mean at a moment's notice. Hey! That's exactly what pastors do!

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God hated Esau long before he was born. (Rom.9:11-13)

 

 

Wow. I think he hated all of us on Ex-c too!! :woohoo:

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Excellent response. I would expect nothing less.

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God is love and God is hate.

 

I have read the Bible too.

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He kills babies too Stranger. He orders the killings himself. What do you think of that?

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     I'm trying to understand this.

 

     My understanding of xianity is so people are turned to god through jesus.  So if Adam and Eve personally knew god they couldn't have salvation because jesus is absent from the equation even though the goal is met.

 

     I would say it is exceeded since how many can say they personally know a god?  Can gain knowledge and insight from a god?  Not through some nebulous "spirit" that seems to differ between people and interpretations (if not merely silence and feelings) but a god that interacts in a literal way.

 

     So why would this not be acceptable?  Where does faith come into play once you've actually, personally, interacted with god?  At this point you simply know god.  No faith required.  So what faith would someone like Adam and Eve need?  What would that accomplish?

 

          mwc

 

 

I don't know what you mean by 'the goal is met' or that it is 'exceeded'.

 

Adam and Eve were now fallen.  So now being sinners they would have more tendency to move away from God.   Thus God's plan of salvation would be implemented.  It would involve sacrifices and the seed to come which was promised in (Gen. 3:15).   Now faith in God would be toward those sacrifices and the seed line.  The blood sacrifices pointed to Christ who was to come.   One who believed God, would bring that blood sacrifice.   The whole sacrificial system of Israel pointed toward Christ.  So, just because Adam and Eve knew God, they still now must believe God concerning what He said in order to be saved through the salvation He will make.  

 

Cain knew God also.  He even talked with him.  But he didn't want God.  He didn't believe God and come as God said, by the blood.  He brought a sacrifice, but a bloodless one.  So, knowing God exists didn't help Cain.  If one believes God he will come the way God has said.

 

Stranger

 

 

 

 

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He kills babies too Stranger. He orders the killings himself. What do you think of that?

 

He killed everyone in the world in the flood of Noah's day except Noah and his family.   If God does it then it needed to be done, whether it involves babies or adults.   

 

Stranger

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He killed everyone in the world in the flood of Noah's day except Noah and his family.   If God does it then it needed to be done, whether it involves babies or adults.   

 

Stranger

Wow! He actually did that? Why?

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He killed everyone in the world in the flood of Noah's day except Noah and his family.   If God does it then it needed to be done, whether it involves babies or adults.   

 

Stranger

If he did that to any of your unsaved family members, how would you feel? That he killed them before they could be saved?

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