Time for a real debate!

[BigToe]

Ah, I missed YoYo say that she/he was talking about the bookS of Moses. Oh well.

 

Either way, it doesn't cover the fact that even these books a la Moses weren't the first things ever written. Nor are they first accounts of a culture we've come across. Meaning, there were cultures that existed outside the realm of the regions discussed in the OT. This means there were people in other areas that didn't read these books. And what do you know they bathed too!

[BigToe]

I BigToe. 

 

Random Screaming Fundy: HEY YOU, CHRISTIAN, BACK UP MY FAULTY AND PATHETIC ARGUMENTS!!

 

Toesy: Uh, no.  *shows off hawt avatar*

 

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Well I would HOPE you guys give me more credit than to back up something so infantile as "people bathe because God told them to in the Bible and that means God exists! Nanny Nanny Boo Boo!"

 

And I know you weren't talking about me there Lucifer.

[chefranden]

Dunno. 

 

That ain't all you dunno, Sweatheart.

[zfunkman]

The Bubonic Plauge killed millions of xtians because they lived in filth. They lived in filth because the "Church" forced them to live that way. They were told that it was unhealthy to wash frequently. The Japanese were the ones that introduced the West to the importance of clenliness. The eating of cooked meat predates the bible by thousands of years. What is your point? The bible has nothing to do with anything you mentioned. I don't even know why I am even responding to such an ignorant question and statement. I guess thats why I'm not going into any detail to give you a history lesson. Go educate yourself with something other than the bible.

[zfunkman]

Also, as was already pointed out, can you clarify what you mean by "book of Moses"? As that is not one of the books in the Bible.

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I'm thinking he means Leviticus.

[Godless Wonder]

I don't know why I'm replying to this ridiculous thread, but isn't it true that daily baths are only a recent phenomenon (e.g. became common only in the last 100 years).

 

When you don't have running hot and cold water, taking a bath is kind of a big deal. You have to draw the water out of a well, light a fire and wait for it to heat up, etc. It takes a long time, a couple of hours. I know, because I once lived in a log cabin for a few years with no electrictiy, no running water, and no phone. I can tell you, there is no way anyone would bathe daily under those circumstances. It's just far too much trouble. It is only in recent times that bathing daily has become commonplace, with the advent of modern plumbing, hot and cold running water. It has nothing to do with the Bible.

[Abiyoyo]

Also, as was already pointed out, can you clarify what you mean by "book of Moses"? As that is not one of the books in the Bible.

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Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, ...The Books of Moses.

[Abiyoyo]

This is what makes this a non-debate "debate" Yo Yo.

 

Since we don't believe in the bible, we don't believe in the Books of Moses. There is physical evidence for human life going back well over 30,000 years. And don't ask me for evidence, it's tedious. It's like asking one of us to cite evidence for gravity (Family Guy anyone?). It's not that I CAN"T, I certainly can list the ages for assorted statuettes, pottery, bone fragments, and fossilized excrement. There's just so MUCH evidence (more than for the bible's supposed truth of history), that to list it it actually redundant.

 

And I'm not interested in the idea that Biblegod planted such evidence to test our faith. That's just sick when you think about it. If you want to worship a god that would do such a thing at the casual risk of losing people to hell, you go on with your bad self.

I will ALWAYS have better things to do than dote on a sadistic practical joker.

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That is the whole point of this topic. If anyone is dedicating themselves to the sound scientific evidence of this world, then you must have the evidence to support the veiws in that structure. If there is no significant evidence to "prove" or "unprove" certain topics of subjects, then one can only assume that their "veiws" are "unknown" and unsubstaintial. If the Bible is unable to be proven, and is considered "false" doctrine, can another "way " of life or veiw be considered true?

[Abiyoyo]

I don't know why I'm replying to this ridiculous thread, but isn't it true that daily baths are only a recent phenomenon (e.g. became common only in the last 100 years).

 

When you don't have running hot and cold water, taking a bath is kind of a big deal.  You have to draw the water out of a well, light a fire and wait for it to heat up, etc.  It takes a long time, a couple of hours.  I know, because I once lived in a log cabin for a few years with no electrictiy, no running water, and no phone.  I can tell you, there is no way anyone would bathe daily under those circumstances. It's just far too much trouble.  It is only in recent times that bathing daily has become commonplace, with the advent of modern plumbing, hot and cold running water.  It has nothing to do with the Bible.

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Actually, this comment has guided mt point to where it should be. 3500 years ago the "common" practice of bathing was probualy not very enjoyable. This reply actually is stating that even "100" years ago, this was fairly difficult. In the Bible, God didnt say " Hey, can you guys start cleaning yourselves, I would appreciate it"; in actually He commanded the Children of Israel to do these daily routines. God even said, My people will be clean people. The point is that nobody has given me any substantial evidence that any other "sect" has proclaimed there followers to use this practice, in regards to cleanliness, and is proven through "verified" documents, as such the Bible has.

[Abiyoyo]

The Bubonic Plauge killed millions of xtians because they lived in filth. They lived in filth because the "Church" forced them to live that way. They were told that it was unhealthy to wash frequently.

If the "church" would have follwed either the "Old Commandments" of the Bible or the "New Doctrines" of Jesus then I suspect this would have not happen, of course believeing the Bile is accurate in its teachings.

 

The Japanese were the ones that introduced the West to the importance of clenliness. The eating of cooked meat predates the bible by thousands of years. What is your point? The bible has nothing to do with anything you mentioned. I don't even know why I am even responding to such an ignorant question and statement. I guess thats why I'm not going into any detail to give you a history lesson. Go educate yourself with something other than the bible.

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The point is that the knowledge and feedback on this subject is large, but is mostly of large "undocumented" heard around the corner at www. gossip. whatever. I have yet anyone to give legitamate "documentation" guidance toward accurate veiws and comments.

[Asimov]

Actually, this comment has guided mt point to where it should be. 3500 years ago the "common" practice of bathing was probualy not very enjoyable. This reply actually is stating that even "100" years ago, this was fairly difficult. In the Bible, God didnt say " Hey, can you guys start cleaning yourselves, I would appreciate it"; in actually He commanded the Children of Israel to do these daily routines. God even said, My people will be clean people. The point is that nobody has given me any substantial evidence that any other "sect" has proclaimed there followers to use this practice, in regards to cleanliness, and is proven through "verified" documents, as such the Bible has.

 

Yoyo....you keep saying this, but I don't see any mention of bathing in the bible.

[Abiyoyo]

God creating this world or not has absolutely nothing to do with people bathing or not eating raw meat. It has nothing to do with why people bathe. It also has nothing to do with when the Bible was written.

 

Well BigToe, I would like to not debate the Bible that we both believe with each other, but I am also obligated to defend the Gospels of Christ and the rest of the scriptures. You are right and wrong. You are correct in that the "eating of raw meats and bathing" have nothing to do with the creation of this earth. They infact were not influential in the creation of this earth. Just wanted to let that be known. However the "eating of raw meats and bathing practices IN THE BIBLE" are very essential to the society that we now abide in. These things also ask the questions of unknown to "educated" people. If there is no legitimate documentation of any of these things in reference to "cleanliness", then who proclaimed these things to society. The bottom line is that, as a believer, our societies direct daily practice of the preparation of food, and the sanitation of our bodies are all result of the Laws and Statutes of God.

 

Genesis was written ABOUT the beginning, not AT the beginning. Otherwise, who wrote it when there still was no life on earth?

 

Did in miscomunicate this somehow? If I did then I stand corrected that the Word of God was not written in the begginning, but of Moses in his lifetime.

Furthermore, if God created the earth or not- that doesn't mean the earth is onlu 6000 years old anyway

.

 

FYI, this is not a "creationists" teaching or assumption, this is detailed examination by almost every sect of Christain Churches directly form the timelines of the Bible. In that, I have to say, that this is either going to inform you spiritually, and build a bridge of wisdom for you, or It will be rejected. These 6000 years are derived from the Bible not scientists, creationists. If you believe in the Bible, In Christ, Then you would easily be able to discern and have faith that the Bible is entirely accurate as well as timely accurate. Lastly, in this conclusion, you would stand firm to know that the Bible tells the age of the earth from its extensive "time" documentation, and believe this to be accurate, that is, if you are a Bible believing Christian. If you are curious to know what the "standard" timeline of the Bibleis, then heres a link to help.

 

http://agards-bible-timeline.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Amethyst]

The only accounts of bathing I remember in the Bible were ritual baths (i.e. baptism). Other than that, I don't recall anything specific being mentioned. Christianity certainly doesn't have a monopoly on spiritual bathing rituals -- the Pagans had them before the Christians, and other religions probably had them before the Pagans.

[Asimov]

where in the bible does it say the earth is 6,000 years old?

[BigToe]

Basing one's beliefs on the Bible does NOT require they also believe the world is 6000 years old. If you take a look at science, astronomy and geology specifically, you will note that the length of the day has changed over the course of the Earth's existence. That being said, even IF the entire Bible is to be taken literally as a detailed step by step description as to the age of the earth, the timeline involved would not correlate to what we would think living in the world today.

 

Look at other planetary bodies in our solar system. Let's look at planets and moons first. Some planets, like Earth, have a moon(s) right? And some planets' moons rotate at differing speeds as they orbit the planet. Why is this? Oh, laws of gravity and such. Take at look at our moon. The same face of the moon is always facing the earth. The speed of its rotation has slowed down because of the force of the earth pulling on it. Well you know what? That same thing is slowly happening to the earth as well. This also plays a role into why there are SETI groups out there. But that is getting into a different topic.

 

My point being is that our measures of time don't reflect that of a young earth (I don't mean YEC type young earth, but when the earth was new by anyone's standards). The Bible doesn't say that a day in Genesis is 24 hours. It doesn't say the creation story took place in a week in the same way we experience a week.

 

If there are parables that were included in the Bible to illustrate a bigger picture, get a message across, without being a literal story of what happened- why are stories such as the creation story or the flood story or any of those things not to be taken the same way?

[narcissist]

Some bathing in the Bible:

 

2 Sam 11:2,4 "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful... Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her."

 

OT porn.

[zfunkman]

I know one thing.  Kobe Bryant sure could have used that law in Leviticus that says that a woman has to scream while being raped or she will be convicted of adultery and stoned.

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Whats this have to do with the price of tea in China?

[zfunkman]

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, ...The Books of Moses.

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The author of Genisis id UNKNOWN. Moses is not credited to it.

[Japedo]

Jesus was the Son of God.Which means that if He was a Son, then every Son has to have a Father. Most sons usually at some point live with their Father. In that, He was the Son of God, that lived with his Father until He came to earth for His Fathers will. God(infinity)/Jesus(infinity)=Infinity. 

ahh, If God never changes, how can he be born, die, grow, et al. If there are no other "God's" Before/besides me (Re-Commandments), How is it, God changes his mind and say's you have to go thru a human-god-man first to get to the God?

[Purple Rhino]

... Most sons usually at some point live with their Father. In that, He was the Son of God, that lived with his Father until He came to earth for His Fathers will. God(infinity)/Jesus(infinity)=Infinity. 

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YoYo,

 

Did you get statistics from Nazareth Child Services for this? Or is it just out and out a false statement?

 

PR

 

I'll even give you Ignorant Assumption.

[white_raven23]

That is the whole point of this topic. If anyone is dedicating themselves to the sound scientific evidence of this world, then you must have the evidence to support the veiws in that structure. If there is no significant evidence to "prove" or "unprove" certain topics of subjects, then one can only assume that their "veiws" are "unknown" and unsubstaintial. If the Bible is unable to be proven, and is considered "false" doctrine, can another "way " of life or veiw be considered true?

 

Well then Yoyo?

 

A little earlier in this thread, Dustmouse took considerable time and effort to compile a respectable list of website resources. She has considerably more patience than I and she deserves to be commended for taking the time.

 

Well?

 

I'm sick of Christians who babble about their faith and their bible. Then come here and demand verifiable truth and accountability for the things WE believe in, but then don't address or acknowledge those people who actually do step up to your requests.

 

Time to put up or shut up Christian.

 

Respond to Dustmouse.

 

Unlike someone like you, I'm not going to demand proof that you've read the material on all the sites she lists.

 

I would like to see some indication that you have respected her effort enough to give some of those sites a look-see though.

[Mr. Neil]

The author of Genisis id UNKNOWN. Moses is not credited to it.

Unless you want to believe that Moses wrote about his own death.

[crazy-tiger]

Unless you want to believe that Moses wrote about his own death.

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No more unbelievable than the rest of it...

[Merlinfmct87]

Unless you want to believe that Moses wrote about his own death.

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You should see some of the Bangor police reports I've heard...

 

Merlin

[Amethyst]

You should see some of the Bangor police reports I've heard...

 

Hmmm...isn't that where Stephen King lives? Must be interesting.

 

To get on track...I don't usually bathe, I take showers instead, and mostly because I want to actually keep my job, not be fired for having poor personal hygeine. I also don't want to lose all of my friends.

 

In my Star Trek fan club, there is a mentally disabled guy who does not take showers or bathe. As a result, he can't get a job. We are probably the only friends he has. So you see, there are practical reasons for bathing/showering that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. If I do take a bath, it's usually a bubble bath -- just because I enjoy it. That's not a practical reason, but it's also got nothing to do with religion.

 

And for the record, I do like sushi. But a lot of sushi is actually smoked fish, not 100% raw. The raw fish thing is a misconception. If you eat raw meat, you're likely to get salmonella or something--again, a practical reason that has nothing to do with the Bible or any other religious book.

 

Christianity does not have a monopoly on hygeine or cooking meat and never did. Just because something was written in a book 2,000 years ago doesn't mean it is true. You cannot believe everything you read or hear, especially these days. Do you respond to every Nigerian scam letter you get, or every phishing scam e-mail that supposedly comes from e-bay or something? I should hope not.

 

Just because you were brainwashed to believe something doesn't make it inherently true. I know fundies don't believe they are brainwashed, but that is what the churches want everyone to think. This is the 21st century, in case you haven't noticed. You have to use your brain. I know it takes effort, but believe me, it's worth it in the long run.