Time for a real debate!

[nirrti]

So what does that mean? You got it, I don't believe that every word in the Bible is to be taken as a literal depiction of what happened. Like Jesus's parables were used to explain something "complicated" that many couldn't understand, I believe many stories in the OT were used the same way. Because in ancient cultures they came up with stories to explain things. Look at many ancient cultures- they have similar stories but with differing conclusions. Does that mean only one is correct? No of course not. It means that is how that population explained something.

 

Also, I'm glad you believe God will come back. But to me, that is not the point of my beliefs. That is not what my beliefs are contingent upon. My beliefs go much much deeper than any rewards or punishments I may or may not get.

 

But feel free to think I'm not a Christian. It seems you aren't the only one. So tell me, what is it that you want me to call myself? Since you have all the answers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okaaaaay.

 

Um, can I ask how in all 66 books of the Bible do you differentiate from what's parable and what's real? Are the 10 plagues in Egypt real? Did God actually kill all the first born without the door marked? Did Jesus really rise from the dead? And why are there four different recurrection acounts? Is that not to be taken literally as well? With all the Bible's incredible stories, I imagine it gets very difficult to differentiate "fact" from "fiction" or hyperbole.

[Ouroboros]

Christian if you dont believe this?Obcourse not, just being misguided. The truth in Christianity is in the Word of God. It is not something meant to be proven right or wrong, but yet His instructions and guide. The most imperative "need" in Christianity is the same one that Jesus proclaimed even to His disciples. Faith. If we cant have faith in the word of God, how can we have faith in the Holy Spirit?How can we have faith that Jesus said He is with us always?

Good question, considering Jesus didn't have the new testament.

 

So which Bible did Jesus refer to?

 

He should have said: "My word will be written down many years from now, and then compiled 300 years from now into a bible, after a bunch of people cast their votes of which book is my word and which one is not. Believe only the words from the books that got voted... It's okey Thomas, don't cry, your grand-grand-grand-grand-grand children will have the truth, but not you."

 

Wait a minute. The question about the Wooly Ghost (sounds more cuddly, and only dry cleaning please) wasn't clear until 200-300 years later! So how can Jesus give us faith in the Holy Spirit, when it wasn't clear that the Holy Spirit was a separat part and yet in unity with God? Most of this holy ghost thing is a construct after the fact, and Jesus did very poorly to educate his disciples what and who the spirit was. The Whiskey Spirit is more tangible.

[Ouroboros]

Another thought...

 

Egyptians did take baths too in the old time, before Moses walked out.

 

Wasn't that the reason why it was so bad that the Nile turned to blood? No water to drink or wash yourself? I just wonder.

 

So allegedely Moses wrote down the washing rules after the Eqyptians already was doing it. So what did God invent here?

[Abiyoyo]

YoYo-

 

No I do not "believe" the world is 6000-10000 years old. I have concluded that it is roughly 4.6 billion years old. How do I do this? Well I've done a bit of studying in astronomy and geology and what do you know- they both point in that direction.

 

Does this mean I don't believe God created the world? No, that isn't what it means. I don't see why the timestamp on the world has any bearing on how it was created. Because quite frankly it doesn't. Evolution doesn't say anything about the existence of God either. See, that's the thing about science- it is completely independent of religion and doesn't really have any bearing on one's theological beliefs.

 

So what does that mean? You got it, I don't believe that every word in the Bible is to be taken as a literal depiction of what happened. Like Jesus's parables were used to explain something "complicated" that many couldn't understand, I believe many stories in the OT were used the same way. Because in ancient cultures they came up with stories to explain things. Look at many ancient cultures- they have similar stories but with differing conclusions. Does that mean only one is correct? No of course not. It means that is how that population explained something.

 

Also, I'm glad you believe God will come back. But to me, that is not the point of my beliefs. That is not what my beliefs are contingent upon. My beliefs go much much deeper than any rewards or punishments I may or may not get.

 

But feel free to think I'm not a Christian. It seems you aren't the only one. So tell me, what is it that you want me to call myself? Since you have all the answers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wikipedia reference to define Christianity

 

 

Christianity is an Abrahamic religion based on the life, teachings, death by crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament.

 

Gen 2:1-2

 

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

(KJV)

 

This is the Word of God.

The Bible gives very accurate timelines of each generation, The world was created in the Biblical aspect in roughly 6000 years. That is the Word of God. The choice is yours. I will pray concerning this.

 

Luke 5:31

31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.(KJV)

 

 

Rev 22:17

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

(NKJ)

 

BigToe, I am not the Judger, there is only one who judges. I just want you to know that Jesus was the Son of God that came to fulfill the commandments and the prophets. All that believe on Him will have eternal life.

God Bless.

[Fweethawt]

The choice is yours.

 

BigToe, I am not the Judger

 

I will pray concerning this.

 

If the choice is hers, and you are not judging her, then what in the world are you going to pray about?

 

 

<<<Dear Heavenly Father, Please Change Big Toe's Mind So That She Might Think Like Me And Come To The Real Truth Of Your Heavenly Holiness.>>>

 

 

Just think about what you just wrote. You said the choice was hers and yet you insinuated that her choice was wrong. You said that you're not judging her, and yet you feel as though she believes wrongly based upon your judgement. Therefore, you will talk to your imaginary friend and see if he can make her change her mind.

 

Please CLICK HERE and practice.

[Ouroboros]

This is the Word of God.

The Bible gives very accurate timelines of each generation, The world was created in the Biblical aspect in roughly 6000 years. That is the Word of God. The choice is yours. I will pray concerning this.

 

Actually I did go through the timeline once, and there was one or more missing links, or ages so I couldn't establish exactly how many years between Adam and Moses. And then between Moses and Jesus it's not totally exact either, but as you said, roughly 6000 years, that's what the Bible says.

 

But then again, it says Adam would die if he ate the fruit, and he didn't die until old age. He lived for a very long time. Sure, you can say he died spiritually, which God actually did *NOT* promise if they broke his commandment. So God is a bit confused sometimes, and can't make up his mind, or not clearly state what he means.

[BigToe]

Regarding your definition of Christianity, or at least wikipedia's- um what does that have to do with me not thinking the Bible is to be taken literally? I haven't discussed my beliefs on Jesus in this thread, so according to your definition- you have absolutely no clue as to if I am a "Christian" or not.

 

Furthermore, I don't see how my belief that the world wasn't created in a literal 6 days means I don't believe God created it? Nor do I see how that makes me not a Christian.

 

But you are welcome to believe whatever you want to about me. If being a Christian means I have to lose any and all abilty to come up with a coherent thought, shoving my beliefs on others and telling them they are wrong if they don't agree, or any of those things, then guess what? I'll gladly renounce Christianity and not have anything to do with it anymore.

 

Lucky for me, that's not what it means. But hey, if it does- let me know and I'll deconvert right here on the spot.

[Mr. Neil]

Yo². Do you even know what Wikipedia is or how things are published on that site?

[Eponymic]

If being a Christian means I have to lose any and all abilty to come up with a coherent thought, shoving my beliefs on others and telling them they are wrong if they don't agree, or any of those things, then guess what? I'll gladly renounce Christianity and not have anything to do with it anymore.

 

Lucky for me, that's not what it means. But hey, if it does- let me know and I'll deconvert right here on the spot.

 

Unfortunately, that's the way a lot of Christians believe it should be done. Hopefully you won't have too much trouble with all the negativity, hypocrisy, arrogance, & confusion that Christians often bring up. Because in the end, it really doesn't even matter what a person believes, as long as their actions are indeed righteous, loving and take the feeling of themselves and others into consideration.

 

If you do run into the trashy Christians too much, you know where to find us.

[Skankboy]

I believe part of the problem here is a misconception that "sanitary" and "purity" are interchangable in this context.

 

For the early jews the concept of purity was very important. Thus all the sanctions on dietary habits etc. Indeed, this is very similar in many ways to Hindu teachings, esp the concept of "urd", where you and your environment are in a constant state of exchange.

 

The passages you listed (which by the way refer to "discharges", I shudder to think what they may have actually meant), are injuctions for insuring "purity" of the body. The concept of hygeine, in the modern sense, had little to nothing to do w/it.

 

Here's a quote from the Library of Congress site:

"Religious acts presuppose some degree of impurity or defilement for the practitioner, which must be overcome or neutralized before or during ritual procedures. Purification, usually with water, is thus a typical feature of most religious action. Avoidance of the impure--taking animal life, eating flesh, associating with dead things, or body fluids--is another feature of Hindu ritual and is important for repressing pollution. "

 

Replace "hindu" w/"jewish" and you've got essentially same practices being performed.

 

Now of course, if you believe the bible to be true, then all other systems could have only borrowed from that previous injuction and are not true in and of themselves.

 

Which brings me to my question: If you believe the bible is true, what evidence could we possibly provide for you that wouldn't be condemned by your presupossitions? In other words, no matter which culture we say may have had these practices in place before the "official" penning of the old testament somewhere around the 9th century BC, you'll simply be able to say "But before Genesis, there were no other people."

 

IMOHO,

[Eponymic]

Which brings me to my question:  If you believe the bible is true, what evidence could we possibly provide for you that wouldn't be condemned by your presupossitions?  In other words, no matter which culture we say may have had these practices in place before the "official" penning of the old testament somewhere around the 9th century BC, you'll simply be able to say "But before Genesis, there were no other people."

 

 

Which is of course the real problem of trying to teach verifiable history to someone who believes in mythology.