A new hope

[whitehorse]

Why do Christians call their brand of religion a faith? I know you can have faith in things, but that's just hope. You hope your car will start on a frosty morning, you hope you'll get that job you've always wanted.

 

That kind of hope is useful when dealing with the unknown. Obviously the religious have hijacked that human trait and now use peoples hope against them, by calling it a faith.

 

Any Christians want to comment on this?

[TABA]

I'm not a Christian, but I'd like to say a little about faith.  We all do certain things based on a type of faith.  I will board an airliner without fear because I have faith in the airline, the manufacturer of the plane, the maintenance crews, the air traffic control system and the flight crew.  This faith is based on a proven safety record and also on stringent training and certification for all those involved. 

 

Religious faith, on the other hand, far from being based on a firm foundation of knowledge and experience, is due to a

combination of two things: a strong DESIRE to believe something and/or rigorous INDOCTRINATION from childhood.  

[whitehorse]

 

I'm not a Christian, but I'd like to say a little about faith.  We all do certain things based on a type of faith.  I will board an airliner without fear because I have faith in the airline, the manufacturer of the plane, the maintenance crews, the air traffic control system and the flight crew.  This faith is based on a proven safety record and also on stringent training and certification for all those involved. 

 

Religious faith, on the other hand, far from being based on a firm foundation of knowledge and experience, is due to a

combination of two things: a strong DESIRE to believe something and/or rigorous INDOCTRINATION from childhood.  

Yes, yes and yes. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

"I know the lord".  "I believe in evolution".  What's the difference?

[florduh]

Religious faith is believing without evidence, it is hope, and it's a powerful tool. Its very power comes from belief in something grand and magical and unseen despite contrary evidence or complete lack of it.

 

Faith that your car will start tomorrow, faith that you won't get food poisoning at dinner and faith that you'll get over that cold in a week or so is not at all like religious, also known as blind, faith. Such faith, really informed expectation, is based on information, evidence and experience, not hope.

[LogicalFallacy]

TABA - The faith you speak of is not the same as religious faith or belief though. Their faith/belief is held despite all evidence to the contrary. Your faith in the airline though is from a good safety record, statistical analysis showing your likelihood of dying from plane failure is low etc. At no point do you have to take a leap of faith that this plane will get you from A to B. You can reasonably conclude that from the mountain of data available.

 

TRP - the difference would be you can show evolution to be true therefore have good grounds for your belief. Contrast this to no one being able to show they know anything other than their imagination.

Incidentally what is your take on people saying the accept evolution rather than believe evolution? I know that scientists are loathe to use the term believe, but is this an important distinction for the lay person?

[sdelsolray]

 

Why do Christians call their brand of religion a faith? I know you can have faith in things, but that's just hope. You hope your car will start on a frosty morning, you hope you'll get that job you've always wanted.

 

That kind of hope is useful when dealing with the unknown. Obviously the religious have hijacked that human trait and now use peoples hope against them, by calling it a faith.

 

Any Christians want to comment on this?

 

The word "faith" has many definitions, two of which are more common than the others.  It is a damaged/loaded word these days, occasionally toxic, mostly because folks use one of the various meanings and it is often quite difficult to determine which definition is being used in the context being expressed.  For example, when someone says, "You have faith in evolution", are they using the secular definition of "faith" (trust or confidence in a person or thing based on evidence or experience) or the religious definition of "faith" (belief in something without supporting evidence or despite evidence to the contrary)?

 

To avoid this problem, I only use the religious definition of the word "faith".  For most everything else, I use words such as trust, confidence, believe or some flavor of probability (e.g., likely, plausible, expected).  Examples:

 

You have faith in certain religious dogma.

Faith tends to stifle curiosity.

I'm quite sure my car will start in the morning.

I am confident the theory of evolution is the best set of explanations for all currently gathered relevant empirical evidence.

[whitehorse]

 

 

The word "faith" has many definitions, two of which are more common than the others.  It is a damaged/loaded word these days, occasionally toxic, mostly because folks use one of the various meanings and it is often quite difficult to determine which definition is being used in the context being expressed.  For example, when someone says, "You have faith in evolution", are they using the secular definition of "faith" (trust or confidence in a person or thing based on evidence or experience) or the religious definition of "faith" (belief in something without supporting evidence or despite evidence to the contrary)?

 

To avoid this problem, I only use the religious definition of the word "faith".  For most everything else, I use words such as trust, confidence, believe or some flavor of probability (e.g., likely, plausible, expected).  Examples:

 

You have faith in certain religious dogma.

I'm quite sure my car will start in the morning.

I figure we can have a myriad of emotional reactions when "We want the car to start" From there we pair those emotions with a thought, a word to describe the feeling. I'm curious how words reflect the emotional state we are having.

 

Is "Sure" the right word that describes the feeling, is "Hope"

[whitehorse]

 

"I know the lord".  "I believe in evolution".  What's the difference?

Oh head God, that's farken funny.

 

[sdelsolray]

 

I figure we can have a myriad of emotional reactions when "We want the car to start" From there we pair those emotions with a thought, a word to describe the feeling. I'm curious how words reflect the emotional state we are having.

 

Is "Sure" the right word that describes the feeling, is "Hope"

 

It might depend on how old the car's battery is.

[whitehorse]

 

 

It might depend on how old the car's battery is.

Like seriously, or you joking around. I'm a bit slow, sorry.

[sdelsolray]

 

Like seriously, or you joking around. I'm a bit slow, sorry.

 

Both.

[TABA]

 

 

To avoid this problem, I only use the religious definition of the word "faith".  For most everything else, I use words such as trust, confidence, believe or some flavor of probability (e.g., likely, plausible, expected).  Examples:

 

 

I like the idea of using different words for these distinct means of coming to a belief.  The fact is though that the word "faith" is widely used to describe both religious faith and reasonable trust.  I think it's important that when our believing friends hear us criticize or belittle faith, that we are opposing not necessarily the belief itself, but the unsound reasons for holding the belief.  To the deconverted mind, faith and belief are separate things, but we all recall that for the Christian mind, they are two sides of the same coin.  As they are to the Muslim mind, and the Hindu mind...  If we are to sow seeds of doubt among believers, we need to point to the unsoundness of faith.  

 

 

[ag_NO_stic]

 

Religious faith is believing without evidence, it is hope, and it's a powerful tool. Its very power comes from belief in something grand and magical and unseen despite contrary evidence or complete lack of it.

 

Faith that your car will start tomorrow, faith that you won't get food poisoning at dinner and faith that you'll get over that cold in a week or so is not at all like religious, also known as blind, faith. Such faith, really informed expectation, is based on information, evidence and experience, not hope.

 

Matt Dillahunty has a bit on this. It's more of a classical conditioning, "tried and true" bit on our minds. Because we can pick up our phone and drop it a million times and have, consequently, never levitated.....we believe in gravity although we can't see it. It's a reasonable expectation. Same for our car starting. It starts so regularly and consistently and it's an anomaly when it doesn't work. If my husband were to slap me in the face today, I would consider it an anomaly (since he doesn't do that now obviously lol) until he did often enough and consistently enough every day that I began to expect it. Religious faith is NOT like that, unless you consider the confirmation bias that occurs when you believe EVERYTHING is in God's will for your life.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

There is a difference between faith and trust, though.  I trust my car will start because it usually does.  I have historical data upon which to draw.  I have manufacturers, car dealerships, and even a reliable mechanic: all of whom I can contact for their experience and skill with the exact year, make and model of my particular vehicle.  There's a wealth of information, observation, and experience supporting the trust I have in my car.

 

Faith pretends to have the same backing.  It presents itself in testimonies and experiences; and even, at times, presumes to draw upon historical data (Columbus credited the lord for his "discovery" of the New World).  But, when one digs deep enough, when one looks past the smoke and mirrors, there's really nothing there to support beliefs based on faith except the innate desire and propensity toward clinging to comfort that all humans seem to possess.  Lies are often more comfortable than truth.