Taking 'Pie in the sky when you die' to its extreme conclusion.

[Lydie]

We keep getting people blowing themselves up with the promise of 72 virgins but this problem has been around for a long time.

 

I just found this on Quora.

 

Is it true that in 19th-century Sweden, 380 kids were strangled by their mothers or nurses every year, according to the Swedish Statistical Bureau?

Robbert Michel, I'm doomed to watch others repeat history.

Answered Wed

It's true… in the 18th century at least. It was not one of Christianity's finest moments.

This came to light when Christina Johansdotter worked out this odd little workaround to get to heaven.

As a good Christian she was not allowed to commit suicide, but if she murdered someone, and confessed to it, she would be executed. Just before the execution she would confess her sins to a priest and be absolved, and straight to heaven she would go. The problem though was that the murdered person would have no chance to get absolution. The loophole thus was that if you murdered a baptised baby, the baby would go straight to heaven as it had no chance to commit a sin.

This example was followed by others[1] [2], and even spread to Denmark [3]

Footnotes

[1] suicide by death penalty

[2] From Sin to Insanity

[3] Danes killed to get killed

33.4k Views · 364 Upvotes ·

[Bedouin]

That's some really sick shit, no doubt.  Christianity (and Islam) are famous for suffering in this life to gain eternal bliss.  So much the better to rob the poor of what little they have.

 

Lately, though, there has been a twist added.  When I was a kid, there was a preacher by the name of Rev. Ike (Frederick J. Eikerenkoetter II), who was one of the first to make use of the airwaves to reach people.  His take on "pie in the sky," was, why wait?  Why can't I have my pie now?  Over the years, this gave birth to the so-called prosperity gospel, which, in a nutshell is, "give to my ministry, and god will give it back to you a thousand fold, in the here and now." 

 

Both approaches have the same end.  Fleece the flock.

[Lucy]

We should all be giddily looking forward to our own deaths. What a great way to live!

 

 

Is it true that in 19th-century Sweden, 380 kids were strangled by their mothers or nurses every year, according to the Swedish Statistical Bureau?

 

 

My mom's friend believed you should kill your babies after baptism since babies get a free pass straight to heaven. Every now and then she laments she didn't do it because now her sons are going to hell.

 

 

 Over the years, this gave birth to the so-called prosperity gospel, which, in a nutshell is, "give to my ministry, and god will give it back to you a thousand fold, in the here and now." 

 

Those televangelists are running the best scam in the world. Elderly people who are worried about dying and starting to get dementia send them their life savings. It's really messed up when someone is being evicted because they sent the rent money to the televangelists in hopes god would magically bless them.

[Lydie]

 

 

 

My mom's friend believed you should kill your babies after baptism since babies get a free pass straight to heaven. 

 

We're lucky to have you around still !

[Tsathoggua9]

This attitude does make a perverse amount of sense, if you have fallen "hook, line, and sinker" into crazed fundamentalist Christian thinking. Scary!

[Lydie]

 

Those televangelists are running the best scam in the world. Elderly people who are worried about dying and starting to get dementia send them their life savings. It's really messed up when someone is being evicted because they sent the rent money to the televangelists in hopes god would magically bless them.

 

When I was still in deep, I did this. I have pretty much not had a holiday my adult life (17 years) for giving away my disposable cash after food, bills, childcare. Most was for church building nonsense, missionaries etc. I don't regret what went to the needy but there was always 'never mind I'm getting it back ' in my mind.

 

sigh.

[florduh]

I miss Rev. Ike.

[Bedouin]

Sorry if I kind of went off topic on your OP Lydie.

 

You mention the promise of 72 virgins as a reward for Islamic martyrdom.  Christopher Hitchens, in his book God is not Great has the following to say:

 

“A critical case in point is the work of Christoph Luxenburg, The Syriac-Aramaic Version of the Koran, published in Berlin in the year 2000. Luxenburg coolly proposes that, far from being a monoglot screed, the Koran is far better understood once it is conceded that many of its words are Syriac-Aramaic rather than Arabic. (His most celebrated example concerns the rewards of a “martyr” in paradise: when retranslated and redacted the heavenly offering consists of sweet white raisins rather than virgins.)”

 

 

[rjn]

Stuff like this has happened in modern times as well. I recall reading about some fucked up lady in New York (I think) who killed her infants so they'd be guaranteed a place in heaven. As for that insane Swede: one would think an omnipotent god would be able to see through such a ruse. I think stories like these are very telling, as they show just how human, stupid and made up it is.

[Bedouin]

 

I think stories like these are very telling, as they show just how human, stupid and made up it is.

 

^^^^that!^^^^

[Lydie]

 

Sorry if I kind of went off topic on your OP Lydie.

No worries- we're not in church- the conversation can go whichever direction the wind blows.

 

If only they all could say 'aw shucks, I guess we got that wrong! Sorry!' Instead, people will double down and do a fatwa on that guy who proposed it.

[Lydie]

 

 

^^^^that!^^^^

 

Co-signed

[Daffodil]

I think the whole reason the Catholic Church had to ban suicide is because of what tsat said:  the logic of the Bible should lead every single believer out onto a bridge to end it all.  Heaven is a place with no pain, war, sadness, etc.?  Who wouldn't want that over continuing in this mess?  To my knowledge, the Bible does not explicitly ban suicide, so I bet suicide was quite a problem for early Christians.  Catholicism had to shut that crap down fast or the belief system would have a very short shelf life!  Look at the Heaven's Gate folks!  Is there anyone alive now that is still a part of that cult?

[dangitbobby83]

There is another, deeper, more sinister problem with christianity.

 

If christians really believe in the age of accountability and that children go to heaven when they die, why let them get to adults where they can reject god and go spend eternity in hell?
 

You see where I'm going with this line of thinking...taken to it's conclusion, the logic behind the beliefs calls for the death of every child in the world. OR the changing of the beliefs that innocent children can burn in hell for eternity. OR getting rid of the "hell belief" altogether.

 

Of course, the last two options (changing beliefs) won't happen. Christians would rather cling to their fallacies and mental loops than straighten things out. 

[dangitbobby83]

To add on to my last comment, I want to say that the next time a christer brings up abortion, ask them if they believe children go to hell if they die. Press it hard - don't let them back out.

 

If they say no, then ask why they are against abortion if it's guaranteeing heaven. If they say yes, then ask them how they possibly consider a god loving for sending unborn babies to be tortured for eternity.

 

Most christians will try to squirm out of it. I'm evil and don't let them.

[Daffodil]

 

There is another, deeper, more sinister problem with christianity.

 

If christians really believe in the age of accountability and that children go to heaven when they die, why let them get to adults where they can reject god and go spend eternity in hell?
 

You see where I'm going with this line of thinking...taken to it's conclusion, the logic behind the beliefs calls for the death of every child in the world. OR the changing of the beliefs that innocent children can burn in hell for eternity. OR getting rid of the "hell belief" altogether.

 

Of course, the last two options (changing beliefs) won't happen. Christians would rather cling to their fallacies and mental loops than straighten things out. 

 

But what is the age of accountability?  The answer to that is as varied as the denominations!

[Lilith666]

 

To add on to my last comment, I want to say that the next time a christer brings up abortion, ask them if they believe children go to hell if they die. Press it hard - don't let them back out.

 

If they say no, then ask why they are against abortion if it's guaranteeing heaven.

Freeeeeee willllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!

[rjn]

 

Freeeeeee willllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!

 

Maybe the sperm and egg chose sin when they partook in conception? Sex is bad after all.

[saltysplash]

 

Freeeeeee willllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!!

This.........this is always the ultimate answer