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Goodbye Jesus

When Did You First Doubt?


ag_NO_stic

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Hello, fellow rebel heathens! I was just thinking it could be fun to tell each other stories or memories of when you first read something in the bible/christian doctrine that made you go "WTF?!" This could be WAY before you were ever deconverting and could just be questions you felt you should never dare ask.

 

For example, the very first question I had was when I was like 8 or 9 and we were reading over the 10 commandments. I remember thinking "So we are not supposed to be jealous and covet other people's things....but God can be jealous and covet our love and attention? That's weird, what's that all about...?" I'm sure it was brushed off, because I remained a Christian for over another decade...but I think that's when the baby "seed of the gospel" might have first "fallen among thorns."

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I started reading the bible because I wanted to get closer to god. I really thought reading the bible would be so enlightening about the world and god's will. After discussing all my concerns with just the first few chapters of old testament, I was advised not to read it anymore until I was older. I was very young at the time. Every time I went back to it I just found more things I hadn't noticed before.

 

The first part of the commandments is rather strange. It's phrased in some translations like the other gods are real, but you shouldn't worship them because Bible God will become jealous.

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I doubted from the very beginning, but as a child, I usually just kept my mouth shut about it.

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About a couple months into being "filled with the Holy Spirit", I got intrusive thoughts that said "everything's just lies".

 

Of course, those were attributed to satan attacking me because I was so important to Jesus, lol. 

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Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back, in the 70's I was in one of those break-out sessions for good little (teenage) Mormon boys when the instructor told a story. Seams he was in his garage last  Sunday attempting to make " a simple cut" with a table saw. He made 3 attempts at "this simple cut" and flubbed it 3 times. He decided this was god telling him not to "work" on Sunday.

 

It told ME he should adjust his rip fence.

 

Anyway I remember thinking that I used to really look up to this guy because he lived on the North side of town, was very successful, and seemed very level headed. FAIL!  :49:

 

So I began to think - "what ELSE is fucked up about religion". Later, as a jesus freek, I never forgot that moment and it kept biassing my thought processes while I read the bable - desperate to find out why so many new friends and fams were so devout.

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Children are very clever and before the brainwashing 'takes' there are questions and 'wtf' moments but we quashed them 'because that's the devil' and because a grownup we trusted without question told us it was all true. Time passed then eventually we forgot those doubts.

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First doubt would probably be when our church pastor told the church that the 'prophet' we'd been following wasn't really a prophet, and didn't really fulfil the scriptures he said he did, and got a lot wrong. I guess after that (some 10 years ago now) doubts starting creaping in. If we were wrong for so long about that what about everything else?

 

Then there were the claims of healings that weren't healings. A person would have a foot prayed for weeks with no result, go to physio, get prayed for again, feel better, praise god, then the next week have a bad foot again. I realised something was awry. Then theres my own experience (Christians love talking about personal experience). I suffer from headaches and migraines. Many years of prayer has done nothing to remove them or help when they hit. But a cocktail of Panadol, neurofen and coffee works wonders! I can attest that for years!

 

Then there were claims of what God was doing... except I could explain what god was doing with perfectly natural explanations that required no god whatsoever.

 

A WTF moment was reading the part in Judges where the man let his daughter get raped then cut her into pieces and sent them over all Israel as a warning.... I was like WTF!!!!??? What is the message here? Don't get raped?

 

The final straw was the lack of archaeological evidence for the more extreme claims of the bible. I then began to realise it was written by people who embellished their own stories, places, and grandeur.

 

PS. We can tell Christians are full of crock. You've all heard the accusation that "non believers Reject god". I have yet to read a story that goes: I didn't like God so I rejected him.

 

Most stories are similar to the ones presented here and show a general slow unwinding of the bind of faith as over a long period of time a person questions and doesn't find compelling satisfactory answers.

 

The one time I might be haughty and arrogant towards a Christian is when they tell me I was 1) never a true (tm) Christian, and/or rejected god. At that point I put on the best air of disdain I can and tell them they are full of shit and I know 100% that they are full of shit.

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Hello, fellow rebel heathens! I was just thinking it could be fun to tell each other stories or memories of when you first read something in the bible/christian doctrine that made you go "WTF?!" This could be WAY before you were ever deconverting and could just be questions you felt you should never dare ask.

 

Unfortunately, I was thoroughly brainwashed and didn't have an ounce of doubt about the truthfulness of the Bible and Christianity until I was 29 years old. Sure, I didn't agree with every interpretation of the Bible and I did end up going a different theological route than the one I was raised with, but I was convinced that the Bible was the perfect Word of God and that what it said was absolutely true.

 

My first questions arose in the late summer of 2002. I was doing a parallel study of the Gospels and was bothered by the contradictions between the different versions of the Centurion story in Matthew and Luke. Before this I had been pretty good at coming up "reconciliations" for differences, and when I couldn't, then I'd either find some satisfactory apologetics argument or chalk it up to my lack of understanding. However, this time the problems really glared at me and I could see that there really wasn't any believable reconciliation. I also could no longer swallow the "it's my lack of understanding" pill. After all, I had been a Christian for many years, supposedly filled with the Spirit, and I was earnestly seeking God in every facet of my life, which was the very reason why I was studying the Bible. Why couldn't I find a satisfactory reconciliation for things that weren't even deep theologically or philosophically? These were simple narratives. I started to realize then that the problem likely wasn't me. The problem could very well be the Bible.

 

I brushed that one aside for a few months, but then when Christmas drew nigh I studied the Nativity stories in Matthew and Luke, and once again I saw that there were irreconcilable contradictions. Not every difference was irreconcilable, of course, but I realized that some of them were. This time I couldn't brush it aside like the previous one mentioned above. After all, the Bible can't be inerrant if it has errors.

 

From there the whole thing unraveled somewhat quickly. The more I studied and tried to boost my faith, the more I realized that I had been duped my whole life. I realized that there were not only more contradictions, but also other serious problems with the Bible. I was shattered and went through a period of serious depression as I dealt with the realization that my whole life was built on a big, fat lie. Thankfully, now I've come a long way from there.

 

 

I started reading the bible because I wanted to get closer to god. I really thought reading the bible would be so enlightening about the world and god's will. After discussing all my concerns with just the first few chapters of old testament, I was advised not to read it anymore until I was older. I was very young at the time. Every time I went back to it I just found more things I hadn't noticed before.

 

That was why I studied the Bible, too. I wish I had seen problems right away like you did, but unfortunately I was thoroughly brainwashed. It took me years of reading and studying the Bible and even memorizing a lot of it before I started to see problems.

 

 

biassing

 

That's amazing! I only have one ass. ;)

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one.

 

 

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Hello, fellow rebel heathens! I was just thinking it could be fun to tell each other stories or memories of when you first read something in the bible/christian doctrine that made you go "WTF?!" This could be WAY before you were ever deconverting and could just be questions you felt you should never dare ask.

 

For example, the very first question I had was when I was like 8 or 9 and we were reading over the 10 commandments. I remember thinking "So we are not supposed to be jealous and covet other people's things....but God can be jealous and covet our love and attention? That's weird, what's that all about...?" I'm sure it was brushed off, because I remained a Christian for over another decade...but I think that's when the baby "seed of the gospel" might have first "fallen among thorns."

 

Then you began to doubt when you were 8 or 9.  For me, I was about 11 or 12 years old.  IIRC, it started with Jonah and the big fish and the Noachian Flood story.  It was all downhill after that (I like to ski) and I was out of it by my mid-teenage years, and I told everyone so at the time.

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Unfortunately, I was thoroughly brainwashed and didn't have an ounce of doubt about the truthfulness of the Bible and Christianity until I was 29 years old. Sure, I didn't agree with every interpretation of the Bible and I did end up going a different theological route than the one I was raised with, but I was convinced that the Bible was the perfect Word of God and that what it said was absolutely true.

 

My first questions arose in the late summer of 2002. I was doing a parallel study of the Gospels and was bothered by the contradictions between the different versions of the Centurion story in Matthew and Luke. Before this I had been pretty good at coming up "reconciliations" for differences, and when I couldn't, then I'd either find some satisfactory apologetics argument or chalk it up to my lack of understanding. However, this time the problems really glared at me and I could see that there really wasn't any believable reconciliation. I also could no longer swallow the "it's my lack of understanding" pill. After all, I had been a Christian for many years, supposedly filled with the Spirit, and I was earnestly seeking God in every facet of my life, which was the very reason why I was studying the Bible. Why couldn't I find a satisfactory reconciliation for things that weren't even deep theologically or philosophically? These were simple narratives. I started to realize then that the problem likely wasn't me. The problem could very well be the Bible.

 

I brushed that one aside for a few months, but then when Christmas drew nigh I studied the Nativity stories in Matthew and Luke, and once again I saw that there were irreconcilable contradictions. Not every difference was irreconcilable, of course, but I realized that some of them were. This time I couldn't brush it aside like the previous one mentioned above. After all, the Bible can't be inerrant if it has errors.

 

From there the whole thing unraveled somewhat quickly. The more I studied and tried to boost my faith, the more I realized that I had been duped my whole life. I realized that there were not only more contradictions, but also other serious problems with the Bible. I was shattered and went through a period of serious depression as I dealt with the realization that my whole life was built on a big, fat lie. Thankfully, now I've come a long way from there.

 

 

That was why I studied the Bible, too. I wish I had seen problems right away like you did, but unfortunately I was thoroughly brainwashed. It took me years of reading and studying the Bible and even memorizing a lot of it before I started to see problems.

 

 

That's amazing! I only have one ass. ;)

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one.

 

 

 

Spell checker let me down again. :49:

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Then you began to doubt when you were 8 or 9.  For me, I was about 11 or 12 years old.  IIRC, it started with Jonah and the big fish and the Noachian Flood story.  It was all downhill after that (I like to ski) and I was out of it by my mid-teenage years, and I told everyone so at the time.

 

Ok if our definition of doubt is questioning.... that would be fairly early on for me. I always had problems with the Noah story, but just "had faith to accept what was written in the bible"

 

We could all of course be those whose "eyes have been blinded that they will not believe"

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Doubt has always been there from day 1.  It didn't matter how far in over my head I was, doubt was the one constant that reared it's head.

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Ok if our definition of doubt is questioning.... that would be fairly early on for me. I always had problems with the Noah story, but just "had faith to accept what was written in the bible"

...

 

 

Yeah, questioning is the beginning of doubt.

...

We could all of course be those whose "eyes have been blinded that they will not believe"

 

That is an indoctrinated and apologetic theist perspective and not a perspective of a rational and intellectually honest thinker.

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That's amazing! I only have one ass. ;)

 

You are so freaking funny. I see you, @Citsonga, that is hilarious.

 

 

That is an indoctrinated and apologetic theist perspective and not a perspective of a rational and intellectually honest thinker.

 

I am still struggling with indoctrinated stuff. I started off this post joking about us all being "rebels," but I legitimately have this part of my identity that feels like I'm "at odds with what I should be" because I was taught for so wrong that I should never "reject god" and that the whole point of our lives is to have faith and believe.

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That was why I studied the Bible, too. I wish I had seen problems right away like you did, but unfortunately I was thoroughly brainwashed. It took me years of reading and studying the Bible and even memorizing a lot of it before I started to see problems.

 

If you focus on the gospels there are far less problems to be concerned about. And the new testament is full of just essays on how to live your life by god's will. Most people I knew studying the bible were more concerned about how to live according to god's will than anything else. Or they just read about Jesus over and over again. And then there were the Armageddon worriers. Everything points to the end of days being soon! Any day now Jesus is gonna fly around in the sky and suck up all the believers like a Holy Vacuum! You better not be sinning when it happens!

 

I wish I had accepted the problems right away. I trusted the adults at the time and decided to read again later. When I read it again when I was older I just found new issues like the whole circumcision thing which I didn't fully understand before. I remember particularly the story where a man rapes Jacob's daughter and then asks to marry her. So they agree but all men from the rapist's town must be circumcised. There were so many circumcisions that they named it "Hill of Foreskins" that day. While all the men were in pain from their circumcisions Jacob's sons murdered everyone. Jacob was upset that they had done this because now other towns will think badly of them. But the boys say they don't want their sister to be a whore. Everything about that story is a big WTF, and it's in the most holy of holy books. It's got it all. Rape, dick tips, slaughter of many for the crime of one, intentional sabotage with intent to betray by the protagonists. I read some apologetics say that they killed everyone because they didn't want their sister to marry her rapist, but that doesn't fix this story. The good book is seriously messed up. I don't see how people can read this stuff and not have doubts about the idea of this religion being the source of morality.

 

I just kept thinking I didn't understand it which made me think I was stupid. This religion seems designed to damage the brain of the believer.

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One of my first doubts came over something fairly simplistic.

 

I could never get an answer which to me satisfied the question ... if death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

 

Answers like human sin cursed the rest of the animal kingdom ... or animals were never created to be immortal, never did stack up to me.

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If you focus on the gospels there are far less problems to be concerned about. And the new testament is full of just essays on how to live your life by god's will. Most people I knew studying the bible were more concerned about how to live according to god's will than anything else. Or they just read about Jesus over and over again. And then there were the Armageddon worriers. Everything points to the end of days being soon! Any day now Jesus is gonna fly around in the sky and suck up all the believers like a Holy Vacuum! You better not be sinning when it happens!

 

I wish I had accepted the problems right away. I trusted the adults at the time and decided to read again later. When I read it again when I was older I just found new issues like the whole circumcision thing which I didn't fully understand before. I remember particularly the story where a man rapes Jacob's daughter and then asks to marry her. So they agree but all men from the rapist's town must be circumcised. There were so many circumcisions that they named it "Hill of Foreskins" that day. While all the men were in pain from their circumcisions Jacob's sons murdered everyone. Jacob was upset that they had done this because now other towns will think badly of them. But the boys say they don't want their sister to be a whore. Everything about that story is a big WTF, and it's in the most holy of holy books. It's got it all. Rape, dick tips, slaughter of many for the crime of one, intentional sabotage with intent to betray by the protagonists. I read some apologetics say that they killed everyone because they didn't want their sister to marry her rapist, but that doesn't fix this story. The good book is seriously messed up. I don't see how people can read this stuff and not have doubts about the idea of this religion being the source of morality.

 

I just kept thinking I didn't understand it which made me think I was stupid. This religion seems designed to damage the brain of the believer.

 

Okay I've read several ones, I don't recognize this one. Where is it in his holy word?

 

 

One of my first doubts came over something fairly simplistic.

 

I could never get an answer which to me satisfied the question ... if death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

 

Answers like human sin cursed the rest of the animal kingdom ... or animals were never created to be immortal, never did stack up to me.

 

Mind blown. I'd never considered this!

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Another thing I just remembered that got my mind going was like over a year ago....a facebook friend posted something about "How could there be an evening and a morning if the Sun wasn't invented until the 4th day?"

 

I just sat there like O_o

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Okay I've read several ones, I don't recognize this one. Where is it in his holy word?

 

 

 

 

The story of Jacob's daughter?  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 34

 

OK, I didn't remember accurately a couple of things. The "Hill of Foreskins" is in another section. And they didn't murder everyone. Just all the males who were still in pain from having their dick tips lopped off. The women and children were taken as plunder. God is ever merciful!

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The story of Jacob's daughter?  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 34

 

OK, I didn't remember accurately a couple of things. The "Hill of Foreskins" is in another section. And they didn't murder everyone. Just all the males who were still in pain from having their dick tips lopped off. The women and children were taken as plunder. God is ever merciful!

 

Reading now. Gross, poor guys.

 

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The story of Jacob's daughter?  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 34

 

OK, I didn't remember accurately a couple of things. The "Hill of Foreskins" is in another section. And they didn't murder everyone. Just all the males who were still in pain from having their dick tips lopped off. The women and children were taken as plunder. God is ever merciful!

 

WHAT THE HECK?! HE RAPES HER AND THEN IS DRAWN TO HER AND SPEAKS TENDERLY TO HER?! wtf. That is sooooo messed up.

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The one time I might be haughty and arrogant towards a Christian is when they tell me I was 1) never a true (tm) Christian, and/or rejected god. At that point I put on the best air of disdain I can and tell them they are full of shit and I know 100% that they are full of shit.

 

This drives/drove me crazy too.  I just realized recently that this is a sneaky way for them to assert god exists AND to flip the burden of proof on me!  So, now I tell them "Well, you never were a true Christian either since god does not exist".  At this point they will go into all sort of faultt mental gymnastics, giving me plenty of opportunity to make mincemeat of their claim that I was never a "true Christian"

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If you focus on the gospels there are far less problems to be concerned about. And the new testament is full of just essays on how to live your life by god's will. Most people I knew studying the bible were more concerned about how to live according to god's will than anything else. Or they just read about Jesus over and over again. And then there were the Armageddon worriers. Everything points to the end of days being soon! Any day now Jesus is gonna fly around in the sky and suck up all the believers like a Holy Vacuum! You better not be sinning when it happens!

 

I wish I had accepted the problems right away. I trusted the adults at the time and decided to read again later. When I read it again when I was older I just found new issues like the whole circumcision thing which I didn't fully understand before. I remember particularly the story where a man rapes Jacob's daughter and then asks to marry her. So they agree but all men from the rapist's town must be circumcised. There were so many circumcisions that they named it "Hill of Foreskins" that day. While all the men were in pain from their circumcisions Jacob's sons murdered everyone. Jacob was upset that they had done this because now other towns will think badly of them. But the boys say they don't want their sister to be a whore. Everything about that story is a big WTF, and it's in the most holy of holy books. It's got it all. Rape, dick tips, slaughter of many for the crime of one, intentional sabotage with intent to betray by the protagonists. I read some apologetics say that they killed everyone because they didn't want their sister to marry her rapist, but that doesn't fix this story. The good book is seriously messed up. I don't see how people can read this stuff and not have doubts about the idea of this religion being the source of morality.

 

I just kept thinking I didn't understand it which made me think I was stupid. This religion seems designed to damage the brain of the believer.

 

 

Oh yeah, that's one serious humdinger of a story! Totally fucked up. It was this kind of shit that made me believe that the bible just could not be taken too seriously as "God's word". 

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One of my first doubts came over something fairly simplistic.

 

I could never get an answer which to me satisfied the question ... if death is the result of sin, why do animals die?

 

Answers like human sin cursed the rest of the animal kingdom ... or animals were never created to be immortal, never did stack up to me.

 

It stacks up when you consider that god is an immoral authoritarian dictator that you aren't supposed to question. Someone does something wrong, and great multitudes are punished. The only two people on the planet do something wrong so he punishes all life on earth forever? Sure! Why not!

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It stacks up when you consider that god is an immoral authoritarian dictator that you aren't supposed to question. Someone does something wrong, and great multitudes are punished. The only two people on the planet do something wrong so he punishes all life on earth forever? Sure! Why not!

 

.... or more likely a story devised by VILE mankind to control mankind! That is the conclusion one must surely come to.

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