Read Ceasars Messiah, and there will be

[Luvtosew]

no question of the NT. One must also read Josephus - War of the Jews as well.  its hard I spent many years as a Christian, RC, and then about 15 years ago I started to read the bible and study it and read all the history, and jewish  and RC encyclopedias , everything and nothing made sense till reading Caesars Messiah.  I had read Josephus earlier but I noted strange coincidences but his book helped me put them together.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Interesting approach. It was also interesting to read some of his blog and his conflict with Carrier over the concepts.

[Luvtosew]

Its was not enough for me to just say this did not make sense, I wanted it to make sense and now it does, when we compare Titus military excursion to Jesus's  ministry.

[Geezer]

I read this book too awhile back and made some posts about it. The author has some interesting theories, & some that are a stretch. I've also read some qualified scholarly reviews that provide evidence why his theory fails the credibility test. 

 

Interesting theory, interesting read, but no he isn't right.  

 

Dr. Robert M. Price believes the gospel story is Jewish midrash, the tradition of creating new stories from OT scripture. He then traces the gospel story back to specific OT scriptures. He holds PHD's in both the OT & NT, so I tend to trust his judgement in these matters moreso than a novice historian with a theory that other qualified historians have poked some big holes in. 

 

Some historians do believe Josephus wrote, or at least contributed in writing the Gospel of Luke. I thought Atwill's theories about the resurrection scenario wasn't believable. I believe that was the weakest part of his theory. 

 

[JadedAtheist]

 

I read this book too awhile back and made some posts about it. The author has some interesting theories, & some that are a stretch. I've also read some qualified scholarly reviews that provide evidence why his theory fails the credibility test. 

 

Interesting theory, interesting read, but no he isn't right.  

 

Dr. Robert M. Price believes the gospel story is Jewish midrash, the tradition of creating new stories from OT scripture. He then traces the gospel story back to specific OT scriptures. He holds PHD's in both the OT & NT, so I tend to trust his judgement in these matters moreso than a novice historian with a theory that other qualified historians have poked some big holes in. 

 

Some historians do believe Josephus wrote, or at least contributed in writing the Gospel of Luke. I thought Atwill's theories about the resurrection scenario wasn't believable. I believe that was the weakest part of his theory. 

 

Just keep in mind that a lot of Price's theories are more on the fringe side of things and are generally not mainstream. For example, he doesn't believe Jesus existed (as you somewhat alluded to) nor did Paul both of which are pretty much a given in that sphere. I do enjoy Price's work, but thought I'd note that his theories are not the majority view.

[Geezer]

 

Just keep in mind that a lot of Price's theories are more on the fringe side of things and are generally not mainstream. For example, he doesn't believe Jesus existed (as you somewhat alluded to) nor did Paul both of which are pretty much a given in that sphere. I do enjoy Price's work, but thought I'd note that his theories are not the majority view.

 

It depends on how one defines the fringe element as opposed to mainstream when referring to both scientists & scholars. Mainstream often means those who fear their peers ridicule, losing grants, & damage to their professional reputation for endorsing a position not held by the majority. In some cases it can result in the loss of their employment especially if their employers are part of the Christian community. 

 

Price clearly fears none of that & he is not alone in his conclusions. The list of those who believe Jesus & Paul were literary figures is growing. I am not a scholar, but based on my study & exploration of the evidence, I believe  Price & the other scholars who believe Jesus & Paul were literary figures are correct. 

 

Richard Carrier is another well known scholar that believes Jesus was a mythical character. 

[JadedAtheist]

 

 

It depends on how one defines the fringe element as opposed to mainstream when referring to both scientists & scholars. Mainstream often means those who fear their peers ridicule, losing grants, & damage to their professional reputation for endorsing a position not held by the majority. In some cases it can result in the loss of their employment especially if their employers are part of the Christian community. 

 

Price clearly fears none of that & he is not alone in his conclusions. The list of those who believe Jesus & Paul were literary figures is growing. I am not a scholar, but based on my study & exploration of the evidence, I believe  Price & the other scholars who believe Jesus & Paul were literary figures are correct. 

I understand the argument, but I tend to be wary of conspiratorial thinking. This is what conservatives will use to argue against climate change, and what Christians use to argue against evolution. I personally find his arguments compelling, but like yourself I am not a scholar and probably don't have the background necessary to see why his views aren't mainstream which is why I just wanted to note that.

[Geezer]

I'll add Earl Doherty & his book The Jesus Puzzle & David Fitzgerald & his book Nailed to the list of those who take the position Jesus was a literary figure.  Read them & decide for yourself. 

[Luvtosew]

Well I have read them all and I am convinced mainly that Caesar Messiah is the closest to the truth.  I say this as a cradle RC , and as one who never cracked a bible the first 40 years of my life, as RC's do not need to, but my curiosity got the best of me, and its been a long ride.

 

The secret is to read Caesar Messiah and Shakespeare's Secret Messiah and look up Josephus links.  Eleazar is the Jewish Messiah who is a zealot. The home of the zealots was Galilee. He can also cast out demons like King Solomon, Josephus 8.2.5 (Antiquities). 

Eleazar ben Simon and John of Gischala are both zealots who fought Romans and ended up in Jerusalem

The High Priests were pro Roman and they allowed  Simon bar Giora , who was head of the Sicarii in to take care of the zealots.

 

The Sicarii were the dagger men who hung out by Jerusalem, and they killed the Pro Jewish jews.

 

Joseph Atwill discusses this in his books.