The passion feelings

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Hey exchristians,

     This is a issue I would like to discuss with EXchristians only. I don't care for any christian opinion on this because I'm pretty sure I know what you would say and that's Just BS.

 

I think anyone who was a former fundy will know what I'm talking about when I say the passion of christ feelings that we felt while we were believers. When we are hooked into Christianity 1st we had to realise that for whatever fucked up reason we should feel guilty for something we didn't even do. And we did. Then the story of Christs sacrifice comes up invoking the feeling that someone did something so profound for you, suffered so greatly for you, and died a horrible death so that you can go to heaven. And while hearing this detailed story of suffering and selflessness we automatically begin to like this person who we think at the time really existed and did this thing for us. (Edit: oh and i should add, the extreme guilt that was pushed upon us because each of us in the congregation 2000 years after Jesus did this were the reason why he had to suffer and die) We see the tears the others around us are crying, we hear the passion in the pastors voice as he preaches the subject, also believing in this person, and what the bible has told him to be true. He preaches this with authority and we believed it. We get swept up in this emotional tidal wave straight to an altar to repent for those sins we didn't do so we don't get punished by this god forever...... who actually loves us.... damn that doesn't even make since now..... but oh well. 

 

Then for whatever reason we've realised that all of the above were just myths, superstition, and lies. We realise that the whole time we were deceived but that we were deceived by people who are long dead. Also in most cases all our friends and loved ones were deceived as well.

 

I'm working with a man tonight that isn't a believer and he was talking to me about how he was upset with his dad for suggesting he watch a movie that was heavily Christian oriented. Facing the giants, which I had watched as a christian. He felt like the movie was pushing God on him and he didn't appreciate it. He looked up a clip on you tube because he had forgot the name and I watched the clip. 

 

I already knew I had an issue. If I think about how I use to preach the passion myself, and replay the story of Christ in my head that even now those old emotions start coming back. When I watched this short clip. It was a movie I had seen so it brought those same emotions back being reminded of the story line of the movie. 

 

I don't understand why those emotions still well up in me now. I know it was all bull shit. I know Jesus didn't really die for us! I know that the bible is false and made up! I can say fuck you Jesus without fear of Hell! I know there is no bible God! I know there was no Moses! I know rulers used the bible to bend people to their will for thousands of years! I actually hate the bible now because I see the brainwashing, abuse, and scare tactics used! I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in anything the bible says! So why do those movies, thoughts, and stories still bring tears to my eyes?

 

Is it because of the indoctrination? Just a natural reaction because it is what I've done for years when hearing the story? Is it just because it is a passionate story that resonates with people? I mean I will do the same thing when I watch the movie Marley and me, brave heart, or any movie where a selfless sacrifice is made. But it just seems that knowing the BS revolving around the passion of Christ that it wouldn't affect me anymore.........

 

I figured you guys would be able to help me understand this a little better as far as what's going on in my head when this happens. Thanks ?

 

Dark Bishop

[Margee]

DB, This is only my opinion. I believe that it is 'high' empathy. (Almost too much empathy) Most people  who have high  empathy are very sensitive  and feel emotions very strongly. I feel everything very strong. I can't  kill a bug. The fact is that the cross was a form of torture. It wouldn't  surprise me if they still used this form of torture today as I feel we haven't completely  come out of the dark ages  yet. You are probaby a highly sensitive person. The  thought  of anyone dying this way would  bother you. If any type of abuse shakes you to your core, you could be a highly  sensitive  personality and it can be a curse because HS personalities  suffer more depression. People like us were 'sitting ducks' for the story of Christ. Stay away from anything that might trigger you. (Hug)

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Thanks @Margee,

That really does make sense. I have always been a highly sensitive person. I cant watch movies where a woman or child is raped because it infuriates me to my core. More so than most people I think. Most people know its just a movie. But i think about how that happens in real life. I can literally feel my blood pressure rising when I know it's about to happen so I usually either turn it off or leave the room  if I'm watching a movie with others. And I hold a lot of empathy for people. Even if Im not the one having troubles I put myself in their shoes and visualize what they must be going through. And I don't even wanna talk about how bad I get when I get attached to a dog in a movie and it dies ?..... its embarrassing. But I don't feel like I suffer depression tho.... I have a pretty good sense of humor aswell so I like to cut up with people ? 

 

(Hugs to you aswell)

 

DB

[Margee]

I hear ya. You are very lucky not to suffer depression. Let me tell you a cute little story. Our big grocery store just renovated. When you open the door to get your fresh eggs out, little chickadees make a clucking  noise. I freaked out and immediately went to complain about this. Did I need to hear little chicks clucking? ?  Im about to go home and cook these little eggs that could have become cute  little chicks. Also when you opened the doors to buy your milk, the cows would 'moo'. Jesus effing Christ, why would they feel the need to do this? Obviously  I wasn't the only one to complain because the sound effects have been removed. I also do not have any problem showing someone when I am annoyed. And a sense of humor is the best thing  in the world, although mine is a little dark.  Lol . If I listen to emotional Christians songs ( which I don't  purposely do) it can still make me cry or become very angry. This is why I try to stay away from anything that doesn't make me happy. I use to be embarrassed  by my personality but not anymore. I have hardened up quite a bit since I joined ex. Ex has help me grow up in many, many ways. Keep posting my friend!

[Lydie]

It became a big disconnect for me towards the end: so Jesus died for *ME* ; and if I'd never been born he just wouldn't have bothered with the whole cross thing???

*HIS ways are higher than ours !!!1!!1*

 

[MOHO]

 

DB, This is only my opinion. I believe that it is 'high' empathy. (Almost too much empathy) Most people  who have high  empathy are very sensitive  and feel emotions very strongly. I feel everything very strong. I can't  kill a bug. The fact is that the cross was a form of torture. It wouldn't  surprise me if they still used this form of torture today as I feel we haven't completely  come out of the dark ages  yet. You are probaby a highly sensitive person. The  thought  of anyone dying this way would  bother you. If any type of abuse shakes you to your core, you could be a highly  sensitive  personality and it can be a curse because HS personalities  suffer more depression. People like us were 'sitting ducks' for the story of Christ. Stay away from anything that might trigger you. (Hug)

 

@Margee,

 

I few short years ago I marveled at mankind's ability to think beyond his current situation and either make improvements or abandon, altogether, that which is not in the best interests of the masses.

 

THEN Mrs. MOHO began moving from casual xtian to all-out, in your face, bable-thumping, knowledge vilifying, throwback to the 1600's, fundamental, religious fanatic.  I realize now just what you said in your post. Some of us are still in the dark ages. And they LIKE it!

 

 

 

 

[MOHO]

@DarkBishop, @Margee,

 

I fully understand the sensitive thing.

 

I cannot read news stories were anything happens to the little ones - especially the unspeakable things some monsters do to them.

I cannot read news stories about how Muslims torture and oppress their own countrymen, even their own kin, at all, but especially for the jerk-off, ass-hat reasons they give.

I cannot read the names of fallen soldiers - even though I know we need to never forget.

I do not know if I would be able to squeeze the trigger if an intruder came into my home (if they approached Mrs. MOHO with the intent of doing harm - that's a different conversation!)

 

She says I'm an overly sensitive weenie but, could you imagine what the world would be like without a few overly sensitive weenies?

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

 

 

 

She says I'm an overly sensitive weenie but, could you imagine what the world would be like without a few overly sensitive weenies?

 

 

Lol my wife says I'm more of a woman about things then she is sometimes lol. But I think that's one reason she loves me too ?. 

 

DB

[disillusioned]

When your life is based on something, it's not easy to lose the feelings that come with that thing.

 

I was a musician, and I wrote and recorded quite a few songs for the church back when I believed. Sometimes I still listen to them, and my heart aches. There was a lot of sincere feeling there, and sometimes those feelings come back. I'm at the point now where I can feel the feelings and appreciate them in a similar way to how I sometimes feel moved by other fiction. But that took a while.

 

Also, I don't think it's weird or strange to be moved by stories of sacrifice. These are stories that are specifically created to induce these feelings. It would be a little weird if we weren't moved by them from time to time.

[skysoar15]

I am actually going through the dark side of that.

In an effort to distance myself from Christianity, I struggle now with regaining empathy.

It's not that I would ever hurt people, but because I gave so much of my life for the church and people around me,

I have to remind myself that there is worth in just being a good person. 

Sometimes I just get so apathetic to life that I unknowingly act selfishly. 

 

The cross became a point of anger for me. Everything was about the cross this and the cross that. 

It made me almost completely numb to it all. Once I stopped trying to 'please God' and just thought about everything logically, I grew to hate the cross symbolism.

It represents everything that once ensnared me. 

The idea of the cross sounds almost completely asinine to me now. 

'God placed a tree filled with temptation and allowed Satan to tempt his children.

When his children (who didn't know any better) fall to said temptation, God kicks his children out and allows centuries of suffering.

At one point, he even wipes out all of humanity with a flood.

The only way to fix the mess HE allowed to happen is to send his son to face excruciating torture to clean it up.

And we are supposed to be grateful for that. 

Yeah, no thank you.

 

But I do see where you're coming from. 

The Christian idea of Jesus' death and rise is beautiful. When applying thought to it though, it just enrages me completely. 

[Guest]

@DarkBishop@MargeeHave been reading your discussion and nodding throughout. Dog, you don't know how relieved I am to know that other people have this issue! And I think Margee is bang on, it's a thing us HSPs just have to live with. (side note: I read the Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine Aron and it described me to a T. Plenty of aha moments. If you want to get to know yourself better and all the wierd reactions, read it). All my life I have felt like an overly empathetic person who's always the first to be pointing out unfair treatment and BS, in my mind if nowhere else. We are just highly tuned to the situations around us, and we also have what seems like too much imagination. All I needed was a good sermon on the crucifixion to get my imagination really going, and my emotions.

I also can't watch anything with blood and gore or rape or anything along those lines, as much as I might know it's make believe. And I don't listen to church music anymore because it will leave me in tears. Partially because this process is so new for me and involves so many emotions, the music just makes them all come out. Music was what I loved best about church, and I know it's a huge trigger for me, so I avoid it.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

 

Dog, you don't know how relieved I am to know that other people have this issue!

Believe me I was VERY hesitant to talk about this issue. I've been doing fairly well with the de-conversion process and I didn't want any of my EXC friends or lurking christians think I still had one foot in the door of the church and one out. Because that's just not the case. I am very confident with my deconversion. It would literally take God himself taking the time to actually show up and prove all of us wrong for me to believe again. And even then he would have to fart lightening bolts out of his arse for me to believe it was actually God lol.

 

When you said this:

"All my life I have felt like an overly empathetic person who's always the first to be pointing out unfair treatment and BS, in my mind if nowhere else. We are just highly tuned to the situations around us, and we also have what seems like too much imagination"

 

it describes me to a T aswell. I'm always pointing out the huge difference in preferential treatment our company gives office workers as opposed to production workers. When I read a good fictional novel it plays out like a movie in my mind. I have a great imagination, (both a blessing and a curse) It also makes me paranoid with my children.... especially my daughter. I lost site of her in a water park one time and about lost my mind. I was imagining all the creeps that could be lurking in the area targeting children. 

 

as a christian it made me a very passionate christian and preacher. I often wondered why when I preached sometimes others weren't affected like I was. It makes more sense now. I didn't realise Highly Sensitive personality was a thing until today. I guess maybe they were just normal. Hearing the story so many times it had gotten old....... 

 

brings a new perspective that I need to study into to understand myself better ? which is awesome. I'm glad I decided to share what was going on. 

 

Dark Bishop

 

[Margee]

DB, please consider reading 'The Highly Sensitive Personality'as suggested by  @TruthSeeker0. (I also have the book ) It will help  you to understand  yourself so much better. Some people will make fun of you if you make this claim. Pay no attention to those who might do that. Only those with a highly sensitive personality will understand how hard it is to be overly sensitive. (Hug ) 

[Margee]

I remember never being able to watch any movies that showed Jesus being nailed to a cross. Too graphic for me!

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

 

I remember never being able to watch any movies that showed Jesus being nailed to a cross. Too graphic for me!

Be glad you didn't! When I watched Mel Gibson's passion of the Christ I cried from the garden of Gethsemane when he was praying until he finally died. It was brutal.

 

The movie came out only a couple of years after I had my salvation experience. At that time I was very much on fire, still hanging on every word my pastor said, and feeling the call to preach. I even believed that contemporary christian music was too "worldly". Because our pastor was very old fashioned and he preached against it regularly. Later on I tried listening to it myself and was very moved by it so I knew the pastor was wrong. I just didn't know how wrong until a few months ago ?

 

DB

[Margee]

 

Be glad you didn't! When I watched Mel Gibson's passion of the Christ I cried from the garden of Gethsemane when he was praying until he finally died. It was brutal.

 

The movie came out only a couple of years after I had my salvation experience. At that time I was very much on fire, still hanging on every word my pastor said, and feeling the call to preach. I even believed that contemporary christian music was too "worldly". Because our pastor was very old fashioned and he preached against it regularly. Later on I tried listening to it myself and was very moved by it so I knew the pastor was wrong. I just didn't know how wrong until a few months ago ?

 

DB

I attempted  to go to the movies and see this and I had to get up and walk out of the theatre. I personally believe that deconversion is very hard and takes longer for really sensitive persons. This doesn't  mean that it's not hard on the normal  sensitive person, but to me, I think  a highly sensitive personality is a bit like having a disorder even though the author  does not say it . A lot of anxiety and depression comes along with this type of personalty and we must learn how  to manage it.

[Joshpantera]

I think it's a time thing.

 

I'm about as cold to it as I've ever been. I'm not kidding, I'm Pluto ice cold about the passion. And it's because of knowing to the detail that it's fictional and what goes into it as far as the death and resurrection of the sun, organic life and all of that. How it played off of popular death and resurrection myths as another version. I'm more moved by Star Wars and the Matrix than the passion story. There'll all based on the Hero's Journey, but only one of them has been used to manipulate and lie to mass audiences as a means political socialization for centuries. So I'm particularly unmoved by said version of the Hero's Journey. It's nothing but a disgusting waste of our time in my eyes. And I know there's symbolic meanings associated, but I'm still pretty flaccid about it altogether.

 

But immediately after deconverting, maybe for several years, yeah, I'd feel sad feelings still for a while if I watched a passion play. But I'd snap out of it. 

 

All of that faded out with time....

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

@Margee

Yes I believe you are right. I am glad I back slid for a few years before I found the studies that led to my deconversion. I was in a state of spiritual depression I guess when I was back slid. I had so many unanswered questions I was trying to sort out in my head about the bible. My last church was very adamant about the bibles inerrancy. But I saw so many issues that had to be errors or just plain myths. I was to a point that I felt and told people that "I know God and Jesus "love" me. But I don't think they like me." It was a pretty depressing feeling. I thought I may have messed up to much to recieved salvation so they just let me go.

 

Then my deconversion happened and I still felt like I had lost my best friend even tho I didn't think he liked me anymore. And I guess I will probably always feel like there is a bit of a whole where that fire used to be when I first believed. It was an intense feeling as a young christian. 

 

All of this is one reason I get SO PISSED if a christian tries to say that I was probably "never saved in the first place if I don't believe now", yeah whatever. Wait till this brick wall slams into your face buddy and see how you feel. 

 

DB

[LogicalFallacy]

@DarkBishop Hi mate. As Margee suggests you have high empathy, which IMO is a good thing. So you can hear a story and feel for the characters. Good movies will do this. I still get teary when Mufasa dies in Lion King..... and its a flipping cartoon!

 

Also you are fairly recent deconverted like me... even though we've had doubts for years the old feelings are just under the surface. Give it time man, time heals, but also its not necessarily a bad thing if you feel something about a story even if you not its not true?

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

 

I think it's a time thing.

 

I'm about as cold to it as I've ever been. I'm not kidding, I'm Pluto ice cold about the passion. And it's because of knowing to the detail that it's fictional and what goes into it as far as the death and resurrection of the sun, organic life and all of that. How it played off of popular death and resurrection myths as another version. I'm more moved by Star Wars and the Matrix than the passion story. There'll all based on the Hero's Journey, but only one of them has been used to manipulate and lie to mass audiences as a means political socialization for centuries. So I'm particularly unmoved by said version of the Hero's Journey. It's nothing but a disgusting waste of our time in my eyes. And I know there's symbolic meanings associated, but I'm still pretty flaccid about it altogether.

 

But immediately after deconverting, maybe for several years, yeah, I'd feel sad feelings still for a while if I watched a passion play. But I'd snap out of it. 

 

All of that faded out with time....

I would have liked your post Josh if I had more likes to use.... I've ran out for today.

 

But I do hope you are right. I am new to the process and while I have learned so much in my short time here, the emotional toll I'm sure will take longer to heal. I have so many memories that revolve around my former beliefs and now that I've deconverted, many regrets as well. As a preacher I feel that I really pushed against others beliefs to strongly at times while I myself was dooped into a different lie all together. No worse or better than the lie they were living.

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

 

@DarkBishop Hi mate. As Margee suggests you have high empathy, which IMO is a good thing. So you can hear a story and feel for the characters. God movies will do this. I still get teary when Mufasa dies in Lion King..... and its a flipping cartoon!

 

Also you are fairly recent deconverted like me... even though we've had doubts for years the old feelings are just under the surface. Give it time man, time heals, but also its not necessarily a bad thing if you feel something about a story even if you not its not true?

? "like"

Yeah lion King got me too lol. I need to make sure I revisit this thread in a few years to give an update on this particular topic. I will kind of be my own Guinea pig lol ?

 

DB

[skysoar15]

It's been hard for me as well. 

I think I've been trying so hard to suppress having empathy toward a lot of things just to protect me. 

After I left Christianity, I mentally put up barriers to protect myself. 

 

While I can fake empathy well, I put in so much mental energy trying to appear positive and nonchalant to the people around me that I end up exhausted at the day's end. 

Christianity allowed me to see others with inherent value. It unfortunately also caused me to see others as pre-broken human beings. 

This caused me to take on an almost 'Messiah' complex to want to share the gospel with others at all costs.

I felt important and well-liked at my church. These years were the first time I had friends and a feeling of importance.

 

But after I grew increasingly more hostile toward Christianity, I realized that my growing depression was a result of trying to trust something I couldn't see.

Suddenly, my darker feelings just grew more and more. I started blaming the world for my desperate need of friendship that I would even fall for something like Christianity. 

I blamed almost everyone from my past, unfortunately including my mother. 

 

I started seeing people as the enemy. 
Right now, I am learning to accept people as the different beings they are. I am learning the difference between action and intent. (Many people did not MEAN to hurt me).

Many of my conversations are me watching my body language. I learned even as a kid that if I wanted success, I needed to not frown or look negative all the time.

 

It takes up a LOT of energy for me to talk to people these days. The thoughts of "what not to say," "what can I say," "how should I respond...etc."

Mainly because I'm either on the verge of tears half the time or I want to respond indifferently. Two things I just NEVER want to do in front of people.

I only have a few people I feel comfortable letting it all out to. 

I too am very emotionally sensitive, especially for a male in American culture. 

I often overcompensate in public by coming up with a very neutral facial expression.

I've seen people who go around with frowns on their faces EVERY DAY and I've been that type of person before. People never want to approach somebody like that.

 

[Guest]

This HSP thing is definitely a blessing and a curse. And @Margee is right, I think the deconversion probably takes longer for these kinds of people, and it presents different challenges. My challenge is not on an intellectual level but it relates to having a deep level of empathy. My greatest fear is not that I will believe but that I will cave in to family pressure due to the level of suffering. I know deep down that the Bible is a book written by humans, a kind of historical record, and nothing more. I've read enough now to see that. Even if I somehow still believed there's the slimmest chance that any of it is true, or God exists, I have opened my eyes to the petty injustice and evil that is the core of original sin, and I can't accept it. I know something like the movie would definitely affect me and pull at my emotions, but hearing the passion in a pastor's voice now just makes me incredibly sad, that they are so deluded and they are pulling along others with them.

It helps just to know that one is an HSP and know that you are overly empathetic, but that this does not mean that you should put your life on hold to please others. Knowing this about myself is what has helped me make the decision that my life is mine and mine only and I can afford to be selfish enough here to live my life as I see fit because I only get one shot at it.

[Margee]

I hope this topic will  continue until I get home next week. I am trying to read and type from my phone at the campgrounds and it is so frustrating. I can relate to so many of you and what you are saying and feeling. I just want to tell you all that it does get better. I went through such anger that I am surprised I didn't  have heart attack. I never  wanted the members on this board to know how angry and depressed I actually was because I was scared they would ask me to leave. I hide my depression well. But I have also learned how to manage it. Learning to live without god has been the single worst issue I have ever had to work through. So I completely understand what everyone goes through. It is one hell of a ride forming a new world view and we are all doing it together. Luv to you all. You guys are the reason I am making it in life right now. I always thank the members  of ex-c from the bottom of  my heart . (((Hugs))) 

[Margee]

One other thing I wanted to mention this morning  was that when I attempted to go see the movie, "the passion", I was already well into questioning  the whole bible.  I thought if I could  just watch graphically what Jesus went through; it might bring me back to feeling the closeness  I once did with him. Didn't  work. My plan backfired and I left the theatre in great despair.