Ellinas Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I have no idea whether Ablemate is mentally ill. Nor have I any idea whether he speaks with some sort of external reality. Whilst I certainly am not prepared to dismiss a possibility because it seems out of the ordinary or contrary to an accepted world view (like any good Fortean), I am distrustful of claims of receiving otherwise unknown information unless that information can be communicated in some detail. In the end, however, I come back to my point earlier. Whether any given character one might encounter is independent of the consciousness experiencing it is irrelevant given that experience is exactly the same either way. Were we able to explore those experiences, we may understand them a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Hi By popular demand, well a couple of requests, I have started this thread. I started lucid dreaming as a child. I was dreaming I was riding my bike along a path and 2 ladies came out of a house and blocked me, telling me I couldn't ride my bike along the path. For some reason my awareness resisted their instructions and I told them to get lost !! Next moment I just knew I was dreaming the incident and I said out loud This Is A Dream. The ladies and scene disappeared and I was left alone. I started wandering, lucid and aware. I will never forget the feeling of existing outside my body and realising I was in bed at home asleep. I stopped thinking about it because it sort of dragged me back. Anyway I just wandered, met nobody and couldn't think of any reason to be there so woke up. since that experience I took a lot of interest in dreams, interpreting and inducing lucidity. There wasn't so much on lucid dreaming back then but I found stuff on dreaming in colour, vivid dreams and flying. I started flying and using it as a way to realise I was dreaming and go lucid. I also started looking for entities that would communicate with me. Most lifelike characters disappear or ignore attempts to actually communicate but I found there were entities that were independently conscious and could tell me things. I could also meet dead people, or their souls to be exact. Some people claim lucid dreaming and astral projection are completely different experiences but I have found I can access astral planes from lucidity. It was difficult in the early years to become lucid as much as I wanted but it has become easier over time. You can google lucid dreams and find reams of stuff on the internet about lucid dreams and how to have them. Much easier than it was for me. Lucid dreaming is completely harmless and safe. I read one of the Monroe books a long time ago as well as Stephen Laberge. I enjoyed them and worked a bit on learning how to have these experiences. But my actual experiences with LD and OOBEs was pretty limited and trying to generate either was like pulling teeth. I think they are both related and quite fascinating though. It's quite a rush when you realize you're dreaming or free from your body. Real or imagined, I enjoyed having them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I read one of the Monroe books a long time ago as well as Stephen Laberge. I enjoyed them and worked a bit on learning how to have these experiences. But my actual experiences with LD and OOBEs was pretty limited and trying to generate either was like pulling teeth. I think they are both related and quite fascinating though. It's quite a rush when you realize you're dreaming or free from your body. Real or imagined, I enjoyed having them. It was in one of the posts on this subject, possibly in another thread, that someone (perhaps Ablemate) talked about a technique of consciously asking yourself whether you are dreaming whilst walking through a door, with the aim of becoming so used to doing so that you do the same should a door appear in a dream and thereby realize that you are dreaming. I mentioned this on a pagan forum, thinking it was more likely someone there would have tried it. I was right. One person informed me the technique had a problem. Whenever she walked through a door in the dream and asked herself whether she was dreaming, she always concluded that she was already wide awake and so continued in the dream state without the least inkling that it was a dream. Pulling teeth indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 It was in one of the posts on this subject, possibly in another thread, that someone (perhaps Ablemate) talked about a technique of consciously asking yourself whether you are dreaming whilst walking through a door, with the aim of becoming so used to doing so that you do the same should a door appear in a dream and thereby realize that you are dreaming. I mentioned this on a pagan forum, thinking it was more likely someone there would have tried it. I was right. One person informed me the technique had a problem. Whenever she walked through a door in the dream and asked herself whether she was dreaming, she always concluded that she was already wide awake and so continued in the dream state without the least inkling that it was a dream. Pulling teeth indeed. Yes, frequent reality checks during the waking state are 'supposed' to be carried over to the dream state. That's a popular technique. Another technique is recognizing dream signs, like light switches that fail to work. During one of my attempts at learning to LD, I was able to become lucid after a light switch fail test. Some dream signs seem common to everyone while others might be just your own personal recurring dreams. On another LD training attempt I had been telling myself that my fingers should get really long if I was dreaming. I did that test several times a day. One time I did the test and my fingers grew before my eyes immediately making me lucid. But the excitement woke me up. lol. There are books outlining a whole suite of techniques to be used together, but my laziness usually wins out. Unfortunately I'm not tenacious enough to keep at it and the 'effort:success' ratio is really poor. It's difficult to do reality checks (or question reality) 10 times a day without driving myself nuts. Perhaps though, it is like learning the piano. Just gotta keep at it even though I might suck at it for a while. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted July 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2017 It was in one of the posts on this subject, possibly in another thread, that someone (perhaps Ablemate) talked about a technique of consciously asking yourself whether you are dreaming whilst walking through a door, with the aim of becoming so used to doing so that you do the same should a door appear in a dream and thereby realize that you are dreaming. I mentioned this on a pagan forum, thinking it was more likely someone there would have tried it. I was right. One person informed me the technique had a problem. Whenever she walked through a door in the dream and asked herself whether she was dreaming, she always concluded that she was already wide awake and so continued in the dream state without the least inkling that it was a dream. Pulling teeth indeed. I raised the technique of touching the door frame, possibly in another thread. It came from a tutorial on John Anthony West's Magical Egypt series, episode 7 I believe. It was a magician who outlined the technique. I only fooled around a few times with it. I've never hunkered down really put effort into applying the technique. There's a lot of mystical oriented things that I find interesting, but how else does one approach such things aside from playfully? I hope @Ablemate isn't overly offended at our questioning astral projection. It would be nice to just take it easy and answer any questions that may arise. Keep the thread going and see how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I only fooled around a few times with it. I've never hunkered down really put effort into applying the technique. There's a lot of mystical oriented things that I find interesting, but how else does one approach such things aside from playfully? After looking at some Chaos magic books I think the authors spent too much time and went a little insane ... or maybe were like that from the start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted July 7, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 7, 2017 After looking at some Chaos magic books I think the authors spent too much time and went a little insane ... or maybe were like that from the start What are the insane parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 What are the insane parts? Well, some of the ways to induce gnosis like the 'death posture' or other stories about the use of physical/mental exhaustion to induce an altered state seem extreme. But mostly the depth of their conviction seems like they may have gone off the deep end. Or maybe deep conviction (or pretense) is needed to sell books. I dont know. Often, magic books caution against something or other in a magical working as it could cause "obsession." I suspect it's too late for some of these authors. lol I just haven't devoted my life to magic as they seem to have done so they appear a bit weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 7, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted July 7, 2017 Honest question: How does altered consciousness or skewed perception become accepted and defined as "spiritual?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted July 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 8, 2017 I guess it's spiritual in a shamanic sense. I'm not sure what else it could be. The introspection aspect? Looking within. Oneness with the whole, if that is achieved through an altered state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Honest question: How does altered consciousness or skewed perception become accepted and defined as "spiritual?" Perhaps because it involves seeing things other than as they are to ordinary perception. If the spiritual is the antithesis of the mundane (an idea I don't accept, but probably a pretty common outlook) then perception that appears to somehow transcend, or at least be at odds with, the mundane is automatically seen as spiritual. No idea if that is correct, but, at the moment, it seems as good an answer as any. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 7/7/2017 at 11:33 AM, florduh said: Honest question: How does altered consciousness or skewed perception become accepted and defined as "spiritual?" A very good question. I suspect it has to do with our subjective feelings of "oneness" or "peace" being the opposite of everyday reality. "Spiritual" is a loaded word, but we don't really have a better one to replace it. So it's not perfect, and at best serves as a shorthand for experiences that are out of the ordinary that seem to connect us to ourselves, to our fellow humans, or to the universe, producing a sense of awe that has traditionally been associated with religion. But the experience is simply a human experience, no religion actually needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 On 7/2/2017 at 1:18 PM, midniterider said: I read one of the Monroe books a long time ago as well as Stephen Laberge. I enjoyed them and worked a bit on learning how to have these experiences. But my actual experiences with LD and OOBEs was pretty limited and trying to generate either was like pulling teeth. I think they are both related and quite fascinating though. It's quite a rush when you realize you're dreaming or free from your body. Real or imagined, I enjoyed having them. I read both Monroe and Laberge. I did lucid dreaming and astral projection as a teenager in the 1970s, but never experienced anything truly veridical. So, while I can't confirm that one can actually project one's consciousness outside the body, I can report that the experiences were quite a bit of fun! Sadly, after my teenage years, the ability faded.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 7:55 PM, Tsathoggua9 said: ... I did lucid dreaming and astral projection as a teenager in the 1970s,,, Sadly, after my teenage years, the ability faded.... I have a theory that advancing years and the attendant financial, family, professional etc responsibilities that go with it result in a mind that is too cluttered and busy. I find it increasingly difficult to get the background thought process to shut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:07 PM, Ellinas said: I have a theory that advancing years and the attendant financial, family, professional etc responsibilities that go with it result in a mind that is too cluttered and busy. I find it increasingly difficult to get the background thought process to shut off. Yes, you are likely correct about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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