In The Beginning...

[GodCreatedLies]

What Did The Snake Say?

 

 

[☆ pantheory ☆]

In the beginning god created lies. Cool.  So snakes don't talk. So a snake could not have tempted Eve , cause snakes don't talk.

OK that's the religious aspect of this forum. But what about the science part? Let me guess.

 

Snakes are low on the evolutionary scale. Snakes are cold blooded and evolved from lizard-like ancestors A snake"s tongue is split in two sections. It is used as a smelling device. Although snakes do not have an animal tongue like we have, many can make a hissing sound. Maybe they could have developed a hissing language if their tiny brains were capable, which they are not, so bottom line is that snakes don't talk. That's the science part.

 

Did I get it right?

 

 

 

[GodCreatedLies]

"The term Semitic religions most commonly refers to the Abrahamic religions, including Judaism, Christianity and Islam"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_religions

 

Which came first? The Judaism or the Christianity?

 

From the Torah:

1) Now the serpent was cunning, more than all the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made, and it said to the woman, "Did God indeed say, 'You shall not eat of any of the trees of the garden?'"

2) And the woman said to the serpent, "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat.

Source: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8167/jewish/Chapter-3.htm)

 

Comment(s): A conversation took place between the two characters... not an observation of the snake's hissing or body language. Words were exchanged. I would have to conclude that this account is a falsification of events, as there have never been any talking snakes to our knowledge, and nature's tendency is, generally, to evolve... not devolve. We've seen talking birds, even talking Huskies... but never a talking snake.

 

Anything based upon this account in Genesis has a shaky foundation. Just saying.

[sdelsolray]

Mythology is typically laced with fiction.  Pretending it is true in the first place is a rather convoluted way to consider it.

[LogicalFallacy]

 

Comment(s): A conversation took place between the two characters... not an observation of the snake's hissing or body language. Words were exchanged. I would have to conclude that this account is a falsification of events, as there have never been any talking snakes to our knowledge, and nature's tendency is, generally, to evolve... not devolve. We've seen talking birds, even talking Huskies... but never a talking snake.

 

A note here (Welcome to Ex-C by the way). Birds and dogs don't talk - they mimic. There is a huge difference!

 

I can imitate my dog, but in no way am I carrying on a conversation with it.

 

However the serpent is actually having a conversation with Eve, and must have heard God saying to them don't eat the fruit etc. So it's clearly given characteristics to understand and be on the same level as human beings regarding thought and speech. This creature is intelligent enough to reason with Eve and outwit her... and get her to disobey the only other intelligent being we know of at this stage - God.

 

Regards to the development of the religions it can be traced as follows

 

Canaanite religions + other regional religions > Judaism > Christianity > Islam

 

 

There is an entire backstory to the Eden story as presented in the bible, and multiple versions of it. The biblical version is only one brief version of many.

 

Here' some research into ancient Jewish Midrash for you. Very interesting https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eve-midrash-and-aggadah

 

 

 

[GodCreatedLies]

LogicalFallacy said:
"A note here (Welcome to Ex-C by the way). Birds and dogs don't talk - they mimic. There is a huge difference!"

Response:

True. Animals do mimic. But so do human babies. How do we learn to speak? The behavior of the bird in the following video suggests that it may not all be mimicry, but that they may actually understand bits of our languages from submersion in human environments, regardless of whether or not they can verbalize that. Some animals are much smarter than people tend to assume they are.

 

 

LogicalFallacy said:
"Here' some research into ancient Jewish Midrash for you. Very interesting https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eve-midrash-and-aggadah"

Thank you for sharing! I will definitely check it out when I have a moment.

[GodCreatedLies]

@LogicalFallacy : Thanks for the warm welcome, btw!

[GodCreatedLies]

sdelsolray said:

"Mythology is typically laced with fiction.  Pretending it is true in the first place is a rather convoluted way to consider it."

 

@sdelsolray: Precisely.

[GodCreatedLies]

sdelsolray said:

"Mythology is typically laced with fiction.  Pretending it is true in the first place is a rather convoluted way to consider it."

 

@sdelsolray: P.S. "Mythology" IS fiction. It is marinated in, covered with, baked in... and then, finally... "laced" with fiction. LOL.

[GodCreatedLies]

In Response To:

"Here' some research into ancient Jewish Midrash for you. Very interesting https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/eve-midrash-and-aggadah"

 

@LogicalFallacy: I got up to this part of the first paragraph, and already, I felt suffocated:

 

"The midrashim about [Eve] exude an air of primacy: the first mating between Adam and Eve is described as a magnificent wedding, and their first intercourse aroused the serpent’s jealousy."

 

The serpent got jealous? Seriously? And, prey tell, may that have been "symbolic" of? I seriously doubt the serpent gave a flying crap about Adam and Eve's "magnificent" cherry-popping session, or that it would have had any interest whatsoever in said activity. The snake wanted to hit it first, huh?

 

Perhaps, the snake did, in fact, have its own agenda, but there are no writings in existence that would get me to believe that this agenda would include interfering in a romantic human relationship. I would more readily believe that it was hunting for food, or other normal "snake" things, than anything else.

 

"In Judaism, the midrash is the genre of rabbinic literature which contains early interpretations and commentaries on the Written Torah and Oral Torah (spoken law and sermons), as well as non-legalistic rabbinic literature (aggadah) and occasionally the Jewish religious laws (halakha), which usually form a running commentary on specific passages in the Hebrew Scripture (Tanakh).

The Midrash, capitalized, refers to a specific compilation of these writings, primarily from the first ten centuries CE.

The purpose of midrash was to resolve problems in the interpretation of difficult passages of the text of the Hebrew Bible, using Rabbinic principles of hermeneutics and philology to align them with the religious and ethical values of religious teachers."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash

 

FAIL.

[GodCreatedLies]

*Typo: "And what, prey tell, may that have been "symbolic" of?

[LogicalFallacy]

 

*Typo: "And what, prey tell, may that have been "symbolic" of?

 

No idea what was going through the writers minds. They could have just been writing the Harry Potter of their time that humans today are stupid enough to take literally.

 

However the Jewish mid-rash stories can be trace back further to Babylonian and Sumerian stories so they are obviously very old.

 

The idea of the serpent mating with eve is the foundation of the doctrine of serpents seed. You can research it by typing "serpents seed doctrine" into google. Be warned its some fairly heavy shit!

 

What's your take on the garden of eden story?

 

 

[☆ pantheory ☆]

 

 

LogicalFallacy,

 

No idea what was going through the writers minds. They could have just been writing the Harry Potter of their time that humans today are stupid enough to take literally.

 

However the Jewish mid-rash stories can be trace back further to Babylonian and Sumerian stories so they are obviously very old.

 

The idea of the serpent mating with eve is the foundation of the doctrine of serpents seed. You can research it by typing "serpents seed doctrine" into google. Be warned its some fairly heavy shit!

 

What's your take on the garden of eden story?

 

 

 

Although the old testament is older than the time of "Alexander the Great" the idea of serpent's seed was promulgated by Alexander himself in his own time, about 340 B.C.., the 4th century BC.  As the story goes, a servant and Alexander himself saw his mother privately having some kind of sex with a snake. After his father's death Alexander promoted this story believing the snake was an agent of the gods and that he himself was sired by a snake instead of his father. Based upon his belief, Alexander accordingly went to the oracles at Delphi to ask whether he, Alexander, was a god. According to the story they told him that he was. So during his lifetime, according to this story, he told many of his generals and confidants that he was a god sired by a snake.

 

The old testament was first believed to have been assembled in the 5th century BC as well as continuing additions describing times thereafter, much of which was a century or more before the time of Alexander. However a number of old-testament stories talk about times centuries before that, some stories are believed to concern times after Alexander's life. Who knows how many old-testament editions changed the original stories. Changes in the old testament could not easily be made after the bibles dissemination based upon the invention of wood-block printing; the first known bible printings by this method, were in the 6th to 7th century A.D., The first bibles were disseminated in Europe about the time of Mohamed, 570 CE – 8 June 632 CE (CE meaning the same as A.D.) Such printings were physically large books, expensive, and the only known versions were printed in Greek and Latin. Although there was more than one known printer, only small quantities were known to have been printed since few could read or afford them. They were also very hard to get because they were banned in Europe by the Catholic church wanting a monopoly concerning the interpretation of the combined scriptures. None are known to survive to this day in any language, although a few hand copied versions still exist. Some of both types of "illegal" bibles in Europe were certainly confiscated or burned. Those caught doing such printings or hand copying for sale during these times in Europe, were arrested or worse.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodblock_printing

 

added this link after original posting

 

http://www.jewishhistory.org/alexander-the-great/

 

 

[GodCreatedLies]

@LogicalFallacy: My mind traveled back to that part I quoted from the mid rash, and and I thought, "Wait a minute…"

 

"The midrashim about [Eve] exude an air of primacy: the first mating between Adam and Eve is described as a magnificent wedding, and their first intercourse aroused the serpent’s jealousy."

 

"Why would we ever need to gather 'round the bonfire, and dicuss "Great Great Great… Grandpa and Grandma's" first intercourse anyhow? Wtf?

 

LogicalFallacy said:

"What's your take on the garden of eden story?"

 

Response:

*Heavy breath in… expels long, hard sigh… eyes glaze over*

[GodCreatedLies]

@pantheory: Thank you for sharing!

 

pantheory said:

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodblock_printing"

 

Response:

So, let's throw some straight-up bestiality in there while we're at it, right? Wow.

[LogicalFallacy]

 

@LogicalFallacy: My mind traveled back to that part I quoted from the mid rash, and and I thought, "Wait a minute…"

 

"The midrashim about [Eve] exude an air of primacy: the first mating between Adam and Eve is described as a magnificent wedding, and their first intercourse aroused the serpent’s jealousy."

 

"Why would we ever need to gather 'round the bonfire, and dicuss "Great Great Great… Grandpa and Grandma's" first intercourse anyhow? Wtf?

 

 

Because its metaphorical and related to stuff that the people back then were trying to explain that has long been lost to the ages.

 

 

LogicalFallacy said:

"What's your take on the garden of eden story?"

 

Response:

*Heavy breath in… expels long, hard sigh… eyes glaze over*

 

Haha, best response ever!  

[Ablemate]

So did god pull Adam to one side and whisper;

    Hey mate, that woman I made you, I made a really lovely spot for you to put your dick in, right between the legs, but be careful there are two holes and only one is the target! You figure out which one.

 

I am honestly laughing so much as I type this but seriously, How Could Adam have known what he was supposed to do?

[☆ pantheory ☆]

 

Ablemate,

 

So did god pull Adam to one side and whisper;

    Hey mate, that woman I made you, I made a really lovely spot for you to put your dick in, right between the legs, but be careful there are two holes and only one is the target! You figure out which one.

 

I am honestly laughing so much as I type this but seriously, How Could Adam have known what he was supposed to do?

 

Adam never knew. He had to ask Eve what orifice she would prefer   Eve didn't know either. She had to learn by experience.

[GodCreatedLies]

@Ablemate

@pantheory

 

Ablemate said:

"I am honestly laughing so much as I type this but seriously, How Could Adam have known what he was supposed to do?"

 

pantheory said:

"Adam never knew. He had to ask Eve what orifice she would prefer   Eve didn't know either. She had to learn by experience."

 

Response:

You guys are silly. How do the animals know what they're supposed to do? They don't need to hear about or see how their Great Great Great… Granny & Grandad did it to figure it out. Instinct is a powerful thing. People have it, too. It kicks in when it needs to. Notice how you can run a lot faster when you're scared enough to piss your pants? Your body knows when to release the adrenaline, and how much, with or without you ever having seen a diagram, or having read an article about it.

 

Both males and females have an anus. It isn't that confusing.

[GodCreatedLies]

@LogicalFallacy

 

LogicalFallacy said:

"Haha, best response ever!  "

 

Response:

There is just not enough time in life… LOL.

[☆ pantheory ☆]

 

@Ablemate

@pantheory

 

Ablemate said:

"I am honestly laughing so much as I type this but seriously, How Could Adam have known what he was supposed to do?"

 

pantheory said:

"Adam never knew. He had to ask Eve what orifice she would prefer   Eve didn't know either. She had to learn by experience."

 

Response:

You guys are silly. How do the animals know what they're supposed to do? They don't need to hear about or see how their Great Great Great… Granny & Grandad did it to figure it out. Instinct is a powerful thing. People have it, too. It kicks in when it needs to. Notice how you can run a lot faster when you're scared enough to piss your pants? Your body knows when to release the adrenaline, and how much, with or without you ever having seen a diagram, or having read an article about it.

 

Both males and females have an anus. It isn't that confusing.

 

Ablemate and I were just amusing ourselves and hopefully others with some attempted humor. Of course you are right but humans do have less instinctive behavior than other animals.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct

 

"Both males and females have an anus."

 

Although snakes don't talk they have anuses too. Silly, yes.

 

As to the biblical story of Adam and Eve, it is about as unlikely as Adam and Steve   as being the beginnings of humanity, right?

 

 

 

 

[GodCreatedLies]

@pantheory

 

pantheory said:

"Ablemate and I were just amusing ourselves and hopefully others with some attempted humor."

 

Response:

Yeah, I figured as much.

 

pantheory said:

"Although snakes don't talk they have anuses too. Silly, yes."

 

Response:

I supposed this snake's anus flipped the instinctive switch that enabled it to not only speak, but to lie as well.

 

pantheory said:

"As to the biblical story of Adam and Eve, it is about as unlikely as Adam and Steve   as being the beginnings of humanity, right?"

 

Response:

If "God" could make people from dust on a whim, no one's sexual preference would matter. Adam and Steve would have been able to ask "God" for as many children as they wanted… without periods, or pregnancy, or any of that.

 

 

PROOF THAT MALES ARE BETTER: THE "J-DUB" VERSION...

 

Revelation 14:2-5

"I heard a sound coming out of the heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3) And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4) These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5) and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.

Source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwt/E/2013/66/14#study=discover

 

 

Definitions…

 

Quote: "These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women;"

 

defile [dih-fahyl]

verb (used with object), defiled, defiling.

1. to make foul, dirty, or unclean; pollute; taint; debase.

2. to violate the chastity of.

3. to make impure for ceremonial use; desecrate.

4. to sully, as a person's reputation.

Source: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/defile?s=t

 

Translation: "Women, themselves, are dirty. They make whatever they come in contact with foul, dirty, or unclean. They also pollute, taint, and debase."

 

Quote: "… in fact, they are virgins."

 

virgin [vur-jin]

noun

1. a person who has never had sexual intercourse.

2. an unmarried girl or woman.

Source: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/virgin?s=t

 

Comment(s): What is it with Abrahamic religions and their virgins? Why would you praise and elevate someone above the rest for being less experienced/knowledgeable? Having not had sexual intercourse before would not necessarily make one better, or purer of heart and mind, than someone that has had the experience. Additionally, according to definition #2, all unmarried females are virgins. *shrug*

 

Quote: "These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb…"

 

buy [bahy]

verb (used with object), bought, buying.

1. to acquire the possession of, or the right to, by paying or promising to pay an equivalent, especially in money; purchase.

Source: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bought?s=t

 

slave [sleyv]

noun

1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bondservant.

2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug.

3. a drudge: a housekeeping slave.

Source: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/slave?s=t

 

Comment(s): Okay, well, we all know that slavery totally blows, but, all that aside, why would you need to purchase something that you already, naturally, have ownership of? You made all of the people, but you need to buy virgins slaves from among mankind? Wtf?

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:3

"But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God."

 

1 Corinthians 11:7-10

"For a man should not have his head covered, as he is God's image and glory, but the woman is man's glory. 8) For man did not come from woman, but woman came from man. 9) And what is more, man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of man. 10) That is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels."

Source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwt/E/2013/46/11#study=discover

 

 

Translation: "WOMEN ARE INFERIORS."

 

 

Quote: "… he is God's image and glory…"

 

Quote: "… the head of a woman is the man."

 

Quote: "… woman [was created] for the sake of man."

 

Quote: "That is why the woman ought to have sign of authority on her head, because of the angels."

 

Comment(s): Wtf do the angels have to do with any of this?

 

 

Bonus:

Back To The Torah...

 

Genesis 2:7

"7) And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul."

Source: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8166/jewish/Chapter-2.htm

 

Genesis 2:21-23

"21) And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon man, and he slept, and He took one of his sides, and He closed the flesh in its place.

22) And the Lord God built the side that He had taken from man into a woman, and He brought her to man.

23) And man said, "This time, it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one shall be called ishah (woman) because this one was taken from ish (man).""

Source: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8166/jewish/Chapter-2.htm

 

Comment(s): According to the story, Eve is made directly from Adam's flesh and bone. Would that not make her his daughter? Long before the follies of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Lot and his daughters, "God" made Adam a daughter, from his own flesh and blood, to become his wife. I suppose this male "God" creature had run out of that magic dust of his. There were no men in all the land for Lot's daughter's to have relations with, and God was long out of that dust stuff (Genesis 19:31-32).

 

Genesis 19:5-8

"5) And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, and let us be intimate with them."

6) And Lot came out to them to the entrance, and he shut the door behind him.

7) And he said, "My brethren, please do not do evil.

8) Behold now I have two daughters who were not intimate with a man. I will bring them out to you, and do to them as you see fit; only to these men do nothing, because they have come under the shadow of my roof.""

Source: http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8214

 

Comment(s): Worthless, female, virgin daughters. Do with them what you will.

[GodCreatedLies]

@pantheory

 

P.S. There is a space in the beginning of that first URL that was included when I turned it into a link, so it may not work if you click on it. If you want to go to the page, you'll have to copy the text and paste into your browser. Just a heads up.

[GodCreatedLies]

@pantheory

 

Sorry about all the typos. Geez.

 

Corrections:

"Response:

I suppose this snake's anus flipped the instinctive switch that enabled it to not only speak, but to lie as well."

 

"You made all of the people, but you need to buy virgin slaves from among mankind? Wtf?"

 

"There were no men in all the land for Lot's daughters to have relations with, and God was long out of that dust stuff (Genesis 19:31-32)."

 

 

Cannot edit previous posts??

[Ablemate]

But as the first human ever Adam would have no terms of reference and no fruit to open his eyes.

After he ate the fruit him and Eve went and covered their bodies.

So, presumably, it was all innocent before and as he was made by god and Eve was made by god why would he think he would make whoopee with Eve?

So the fruit gave him and Eve the knowledge of how to make babies.

Ah well. Sorry for bringing down the level of debate.