Popular Post HisGrace Posted July 12, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2017 I was raised in fairly conservative churches/schools. Gradually I started to move away from some of the more extreme elements of that, I believed in evolution, didn't take the Genesis creation narrative literally, was open to certain Bible stories being myths, exc.. Even since I was a little kid and first found out what gay people were I've never understood why anyone cared what gender you liked. The reason I ultimately rejected the whole thing isn't because of anything in the outside world, though, to go along with the whole idea of "faith" you need to accept believing in things that aren't verifiable anyway. Instead it's that the central premise of Christianity doesn't make sense to me now that I've finally seriously examined it, and that the god described in the Bible doesn't sound all wise or all good. It boils down to- A- One thing I've always struggled with is why Jesus needed to die on the cross in order to save people. I got into a lengthy exchange with a school teacher when I was 7 or 8 about this and never got a satisfactory answer. The Bible makes very clear that god can do anything, so why can't he forgive people without killing someone else? Recently I've thought about this in even more depth and it goes beyond the issue of whether god is omnipotent. Forgiving people because Jesus died doesn't make any sense. If I'm going to forgive someone, I don't insist that some random, unrelated person be punished before I can forgive someone. I can either forgive them or I can't. Someone might respond by saying "but that's why god is merciful" but if he were truly merciful wouldn't he be able to forgive someone without killing an unrelated innocent person? Christians consistently say that we should "forgive as god forgives" but wouldn't that mean that when someone asked our forgiveness we'd have to go and crucify someone first before we could forgive them? That kind of thinking only makes sense in the context of a society built around animal sacrifices. It makes the Bible sound less inspired by an all knowing, timeless god and more like a product of a primitive ancient civilization. People try to explain this with the analogy that Jesus is like our parent and it's like he paid for a window that we broke. But that analogy doesn't work because breaking a window isn't a moral issue, and paying for it isn't retribution. It's just an issue of someone suffering a loss and that loss being made right, irrespective of who actually is the one paying. A better analogy would be someone being sentenced to death and Jesus taking their place. But nothing works like that. Even if someone for some reason volunteered to be executed in another person's place, that wouldn't nullify the sentence of death on the other person. Retribution is attached to the person who committed the crime. Again, Christians would say that that is why god is merciful, but if he were truly merciful why couldn't he just forgive people. Killing Jesus was irrelevant to any sins anyone has committed. Another thing Christians say is that the crucifixion was to satisfy god's wrath against our sins. That makes him sound like an unenlightened barbarian, not an infinitely wise god who created the universe. He's so angry that he wants to take it out on someone who did nothing to him? Yet the Bible says humans are supposed to control their anger. But it also says we're to be "holy" like god, and being holy apparently includes murdering innocent people to punish them for things other people did. Add to that that Jesus' sacrifice isn't at all proportionate to evils he's answering for. Killing one person supposedly answers for the death that everyone who has ever existed deserves? Add to that that Jesus didn't truly "die" in the narrative, he never went to hell and came back from the dead. If God is merciful enough to accept a non-proportional sacrifice why isn't he merciful enough to just forgive anyone who asks? Continuing on the topic of forgiveness, for me not forgiving someone means I stay angry at them, it doesn't mean I want someone to be sent to hell and tortured for all eternity after they die. I don't really want that to happen to anyone. Even for someone like Hitler, I'd be sufficient with just letting him die, or just not letting him into heaven and having stay in cosmological limbo. Wanting to endlessly torture someone is vindictive, sadistic, and evil. Especially when it's not just mass murderers but even someone who commits a "sin" as small as stealing a cookie from a cookie jar as a small child. B- I've had some serious bouts of depression recently and I thought in relation to god that if I truly loved someone and I could ensure that they wouldn't feel like this, then I would. Of course the common rebuttal to this is that there are lots of people with worse problems than me, but that just compounds the point. If you look at all the suffering that has occurred throughout history, would a good and loving god allow it all to happen? If a person knew about a child getting raped by someone, didn't tell anyone, and did nothing to stop it, there isn't a court in the world that wouldn't convict that person. Any Christian would agree that it was a sin to not intervene. And yet that's what god does for every murder and every rape that has ever occurred. Again, if we're supposed to be "holy" like god, wouldn't that mean that we'd be as indifferent to all this as he is? I know that the Christian conception of god gives people the free will to sin and that's why we're responsible for our actions. That makes sense for sins that don't directly effect anyone else, like getting drunk, gambling, consensual fornication, lust and so forth. But in the case of sins against others, if it's such a serious sin against another person to justify sending someone to hell, then wouldn't it also be a sin to be able to stop that sin and not do it? Christians talk out of both sides of their mouth on this issue. They defend god allowing, say, 9/11 to happen by saying that people's souls are eternal. But if killing another person is serious enough to warrant sending the murderer to hell, wouldn't it be serious enough for god to intervene and stop it? C- This is a smaller thing and it's an issue I've always had, but the New Testament is terribly inconsistent in regards to how to attains salvation. On the one hand there's John 3:16, and on the other hand there's the book of James, which pretty much goes full Catholic. People try to explain away the book of James by saying that the "works" described are simply an outgrowth of faith, but the book specifically says "faith without works is dead" implying that someone who actually does have faith but doesn't couple it with good works is going to hell. Even more blatantly John says "whosoever believeth in me shall not perish but have everlasting life" but then James explicitly says that belief in Jesus is not enough noting that "Even the demons believe and shudder". That sounds like something written by two different authors and not inspired by one source. I could write more, but this is the main stuff. I just finished graduate school and am stuck living at home until I find a job. I'm going to keep going to church with my parents and not rock the boat for now. I'll probably formally "come out" once I'm living somewhere else. I thought of myself as a "bad Christian" who didn't pray that much, but it didn't occur to me how much I really did throughout the day until now, I find myself thinking "Oh yeah, he's probably not real" a lot of the time now. I get the periodic worry about going to hell, and worrying about not being able to pray when I'm afraid, but mostly I feel really good, because I think these are things I've known deep down for a long time. PS- I was automatically logged out when I spent a lot of time writing this and worried that my long post would all be gone and thought "thank god" when I saw that it was all here. Some habits take a while to go away. 13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Welcome to the forum, @HisGrace, You made some very good points and pointed out the illogical, inconsistent, irrational, emotional, and just plain icky aspects of the bable, as well as those who believe therein. A.) Someone ELSE begin punished for petty shit that I did will prevent ME from being tortured forever. WTF? B.) Some actions or thoughts (or lack thereof) are serious enough to punish you for eternity but the supreme being won't stop them. WTF? C.) Inconsistencies with the one and only written communication, supposedly, from said supreme begin? If god really wrote, or even "inspired" those writings, would they not be perfect (or even clear) ??? WTF? Hanging with the folks and living with their rules and trying to make them happy until you are out on your own is a very good plan. Unless, of course, they are abusive - which does not sound the case. BTW: What is your MS/MA in? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisGrace Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 BTW: What is your MS/MA in? Political science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Political science. I hear the Trump administration is hiring! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted July 12, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2017 I hear the Trump administration is hiring! Fake news! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag_NO_stic Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I really enjoyed reading this post. Welcome to the forum, I am really excited to see more of your content! As for a response, I only ever wondered why god could be jealous and we couldn't. I also always wondered why hell was even necessary, it seems cruel. It's only now that I see how many contradictory behaviors there are! "Perfect love casts out fear..." unless you're god and use fear to get people to love you. Apparently it is patient, doesn't envy or boast, not proud. It's not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs....except for if you're god and you keep a record of every wrong, lose your shit over an apple, create beings to boast your own glory, and will send these beings to eternal torment for not finding this behavior acceptable...Where is the patience and the self control and the forgiveness? 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 A lot of things spark a reverse "Come to Jesus" moment. It was studing & researching the origins & evolution of the Bible & Christianity that killed my faith. I found the secret that church leaders fear will become common knowledge. None of it is true! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 For me it always seemed weird how the Bible was put together. God nowhere ever outlined how he put the Bible together and why. He didn't list the books and their purposes, and he allowed for a lot of contextual information to be lost to the ages. More bizarrely, he decided that he was going to start getting people to write letters to each other and use these letters to teach his values. Once again, he did not specify which letters were cannon. The apostles never stated which letters were inspired and it was left to the church to hopefully figure out how to separate the wheat from the tares. The points you brought up as well are ones that crossed my mind. For example, the death of Jesus on the cross and this being symbolic of the Jewish custom of sacrificing animals at the temple. Why was this symbolism needed? Wouldn't God know this symbolism would be lost on the vast majority of believers considering that the vast majority have been and will continue to be gentiles? Then you have to contrast this with the fact that the current evangelical and fundamentalist understanding of salvation differed from the early church. They believed in the ransom theory of atonement vs the substitutionary atonement most hold today. The above symbolism makes less sense when you consider the fact that Jesus died for completely different reasons than the original temple sacrifices (supposedly). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 For me it always seemed weird how the Bible was put together. God nowhere ever outlined how he put the Bible together and why. He didn't list the books and their purposes, and he allowed for a lot of contextual information to be lost to the ages. More bizarrely, he decided that he was going to start getting people to write letters to each other and use these letters to teach his values. Once again, he did not specify which letters were cannon. The apostles never stated which letters were inspired and it was left to the church to hopefully figure out how to separate the wheat from the tares. The points you brought up as well are ones that crossed my mind. For example, the death of Jesus on the cross and this being symbolic of the Jewish custom of sacrificing animals at the temple. Why was this symbolism needed? Wouldn't God know this symbolism would be lost on the vast majority of believers considering that the vast majority have been and will continue to be gentiles? Then you have to contrast this with the fact that the current evangelical and fundamentalist understanding of salvation differed from the early church. They believed in the ransom theory of atonement vs the substitutionary atonement most hold today. The above symbolism makes less sense when you consider the fact that Jesus died for completely different reasons than the original temple sacrifices (supposedly). And many of these theories & beliefs took as much as 1500 years to develop & become accepted. Inspite of popular belief the 4 gospels were not officially canonized at the Council of Nicea. The Gnostic's outnumbered the Orthodox so nothing was resolved. The Orthodox eventually killed off enough of the Gnostic's to take the majority position. Eventually the 4 gospels we have now were just accepted by the faithful as true and were accepted as cannon. There were 40 or 50 gospels to chose from by the time the Council of Nicea met. So choosing the right ones was anything but a slam dunk. And then there is the problem that none of them were true or historically accurate, not that that would have been a major problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Thank you so much for your post!!! I am glad I am not the only one who does not understand why someone else would have to die for me to be forgiven. That makes absolutely no sense at all. This is why I just can't believe it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Yep, we're supposed to turn the other cheek, but he demands payment for forgiveness, which means it isn't forgiveness. He can burn people alive because he's holy, but holy people are kind and good and don't burn others alive. Evil sadistic cruel people do things like that. God of the Bible is evil. Parents will spank a kid and send him/her to their room, or give them a time-out for disobedience. God of the Bible kills them. All of them. And ruins the planet. After setting them up for failure in the first place. God of the Bible is a vile bloodthirsty conniving shit. Centuries of believers have wept genuine tears of anguish over being normal humans after being promised that they were born-again, pure, incorruptible, shining like stars in the dark sky. Some have cut off their genitals to try and stop lusting, when lusting is normal and part of procreation of all sexual creatures on Earth. There is nothing bad about it unless used to harm someone. Normal isn't bent or broken or displeasing to some petulant shit in the sky, it is normal, as he would know if he actually created us. Church and religion in general is fucked up nonsense that destroys lives while having a veneer of respectable goodness. It is a mind virus that has polluted human kind for recorded history. Today it is responsible for untold cruelty, justified by the believers as destroying sin. We found our way out, and we need to find ways to unplug the faiths worldwide. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Fuego said: Yep, we're supposed to turn the other cheek, but he demands payment for forgiveness, which means it isn't forgiveness. He can burn people alive because he's holy, but holy people are kind and good and don't burn others alive. Evil sadistic cruel people do things like that. God of the Bible is evil. Parents will spank a kid and send him/her to their room, or give them a time-out for disobedience. God of the Bible kills them. All of them. And ruins the planet. After setting them up for failure in the first place. God of the Bible is a vile bloodthirsty conniving shit. Centuries of believers have wept genuine tears of anguish over being normal humans after being promised that they were born-again, pure, incorruptible, shining like stars in the dark sky. Some have cut off their genitals to try and stop lusting, when lusting is normal and part of procreation of all sexual creatures on Earth. There is nothing bad about it unless used to harm someone. Normal isn't bent or broken or displeasing to some petulant shit in the sky, it is normal, as he would know if he actually created us. Church and religion in general is fucked up nonsense that destroys lives while having a veneer of respectable goodness. It is a mind virus that has polluted human kind for recorded history. Today it is responsible for untold cruelty, justified by the believers as destroying sin. We found our way out, and we need to find ways to unplug the faiths worldwide. Bravo, @Fuego! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 6, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2017 5 hours ago, SeaJay said: I don't think this means jealousy in the same way we get jealous. I think the verse says something like God is jealous for our love (unless I'm mistaken), meaning God gets hurt if we go after other gods or even, no gods. I don't think it's a selfish jealousy tinged with bitterness that's being spoken of here. The bible was written by men, men who imagined Gods, those gods were made in mans image thus they have human emotions. That's part of the issue with God - for a being beyond all humanity he sure acts like a human at times. This is best explained by: In the image of man god was created, male only created they him. 5 hours ago, SeaJay said: Why did Jesus have to die for the sins of the world? This is one thought on the matter. Because sin leads to death, spiritual (and physical; the Biblical reason for why everything is in decay). Sin entered the world through one 'man' so the parallel is that it leaves the world through one 'man'. One man brought sin in, so one man takes sin out. Jesus lived a sinless life, so was the perfect sacrifice. Why a human sacrifice? Well the human part is touched upon above, but also life and the loss of life is something we can all relate to and understand. We know our lives are precious, so this laying down of someone's life (when they really didn't need to do so - because they were sinless), is the ultimate show of love. Giving your life up so that others can continue to live. For a book that apparently abhors human sacrifice, the idea of Jesus being sacrificed to himself to save humanity from himself is rather ironic. For this to make any sense Adam, Eve, Steve and Eden had to be real. While you might be able to realistically argue that Jesus was a real person, you cannot make the same argument for Adam and Eve. Also the notion that we are all cursed because of the actions of one person, and therefore need a human sacrifice to save us for stuff we didn't do is abhorrent. Any being worth being called God should be more moral than this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I see you settled on the name HisGrace. Sin, Forgiveness, Grace, Substitionary Atonement, Heaven, & Hell are all things the Church created as part of their rewards, punishment, control scheme. None of those things are real. They are all manmade. That is especially true for sin. That is a concept that only exist in the religious world. There is no such thing as sin in the real world. In the real world criminal & civil law have replaced sin & if you break the law juries judge you not God. And the Supreme Court has ruled nobody can burn you alive forever.......that would be cruel & unusual punishment. So, you can stop being concerned about hell. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag_NO_stic Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 On 8/6/2017 at 11:43 AM, SeaJay said: I don't think this means jealousy in the same way we get jealous. I think the verse says something like God is jealous for our love (unless I'm mistaken), meaning God gets hurt if we go after other gods or even, no gods. I don't think it's a selfish jealousy tinged with bitterness that's being spoken of here. @LogicalFallacy already did a great job, but doesn't mean I want to ignore you by any means. The example I gave was my misunderstanding as a young child, when I remember reading about god being jealous and wondering why we weren't allowed. I have since heard the biblical reasoning and moved on to the more troubling forms of bible god's hypocrisy. All of that to say "jealous" is still a negative word, in my humble opinion, and the excuse wouldn't hold weight if I tried to explain away my insecure behavior as "being jealous for my husband's love." It is 100% selfish jealousy, he doesn't want any gods before himself. It is possessively, selfishly jealous. On 8/6/2017 at 11:50 AM, SeaJay said: Why did Jesus have to die for the sins of the world? This is one thought on the matter. Because sin leads to death, spiritual (and physical; the Biblical reason for why everything is in decay). Sin entered the world through one 'man' so the parallel is that it leaves the world through one 'man'. One man brought sin in, so one man takes sin out. Jesus lived a sinless life, so was the perfect sacrifice. Why a human sacrifice? Well the human part is touched upon above, but also life and the loss of life is something we can all relate to and understand. We know our lives are precious, so this laying down of someone's life (when they really didn't need to do so - because they were sinless), is the ultimate show of love. Giving your life up so that others can continue to live. Your entire argument hinges on "sin" which I reject. What is sin? Stuff "god" doesn't like? How do we know "god" doesn't like it? Because a book claims to speak for "god" and defines things that "god" finds abhorrent? The entire christian argument depends ENTIRELY on the assumption of a god. You have to do mental acrobatics to fit broken arguments into the narrative. "God" has never introduced himself to me, smote me for "disobedience," or made clear what he does or does not like. Just because Joe Schmoe says that "god" says that Jesus is his son and that we need to be saved from things because he doesn't like them, via some ancient book, does not mean I have to listen to it. If the bible were historically accurate, or held truths unknown to people at the time it was written, or was morally appropriate/consistent, or even made into an audiobook narrated by Yahweh himself, I would not believe it until he showed up, said hi, and told me himself. Why, if "god is omnipotent" and "doesn't want me to go to hell" would it be unrealistic for me to expect basic interaction? Because perhaps he does not exist and you must now say that "god doesn't speak to us audibly" etc. And what sucks for you even more is that, according to you, "god" made my brain/skepticism this way and, also according to christianity, the gift of "faith" has apparently not been given to me. So lookin like there's nothing I can do anyway. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 2 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said: And what sucks for you even more is that, according to you, "god" made my brain/skepticism this way and, also according to christianity, the gift of "faith" has apparently not been given to me. So lookin like there's nothing I can do anyway. And add to that the verbiage in the bable stating that god is omnipotent and knew everything in advance. So we can't change anything anyway. May as well enjoy life. Hmmmmm it's almost grape juice time... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisGrace Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 On 8/6/2017 at 11:50 AM, SeaJay said: Because sin leads to death, spiritual (and physical; the Biblical reason for why everything is in decay). Sin entered the world through one 'man' so the parallel is that it leaves the world through one 'man'. One man brought sin in, so one man takes sin out. Jesus lived a sinless life, so was the perfect sacrifice. Why a human sacrifice? Well the human part is touched upon above, but also life and the loss of life is something we can all relate to and understand. We know our lives are precious, so this laying down of someone's life (when they really didn't need to do so - because they were sinless), is the ultimate show of love. Giving your life up so that others can continue to live. Okay, but none of that explains why Jesus had to die. He could have shown his love just through forgiveness, rather than self-flagellation. The core idea here is that a supposedly omnipotent god was bound by ritualism and for some reason needed a sacrifice to satiate his anger. In which case he wouldn't be omnipotent. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisGrace Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 On 8/6/2017 at 11:06 PM, Geezer said: I see you settled on the name HisGrace. It's a reference to being a Duke and being called "His Grace". It's a username I use for things all the time, didn't realize the possible religious connotations on this site until later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted August 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2017 So glad you are here with us HG. We totally understand why you are here. And thank you very much for sharing so many wonderful points in your post . Looking forward to hearing more from you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The explanation I have heard so often for Jesus having to die for our sins is related to a Jewish custom wherein a relative or friend could pay off a financial debt thus freeing the debtor from debtor's prison. Of course, this concept differs from punishment which is intended to correct an unwanted behavior. This is were I personally take issue with the entire concept of someone else begin punished for my boo boo. Just one of the many many concepts in the xtian doctrine that makes as much sense as a screen-door in a submarine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries256 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 Why I left? In short. Looking at the bible and actual history, crap didnt add up. Then there’s the whole anti-gay thing, that really was the nail in the coffin for me. Then to top it off to learn how xtianity spread, i knew I didnt want any part of this evil cult anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 On 7/12/2017 at 3:38 PM, HisGrace said: It's just an issue of someone suffering a loss and that loss being made right EXACTLY! Someone can pay a debt for someone else, and it makes it right for the person who was wronged. But someone cannot accept punishment for someone else, because -- as the old cliche goes -- two wrongs don't make a right! Their god can't possibly demand that a punishment is required for every sin against him, and that it doesn't matter whether the guilty party is the one punished or not, that he just has to punish somebody and everything will be back in balance. Welcome aboard! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ DestinyTurtle ◊ Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Welcome, @HisGrace! I completely agree with the points you made on your post. Thank you for sharing it with us! I hope you safely land a job so you can move out and not feel pressured to go to church with your parents! Becoming financially independent was a really big part of my deconversion process. It's super hard in this economy and rising rent prices, though! Keep on trucking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ SHAOLIN ◊ Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Why did I leave church? There are a number of reasons. I was an associate pastor at a Lutheran church. I spent a tremendous amount of time, energy and money in the ministry because I wanted to make a difference “for God”. Admittedly, the deeper reason is..........I wanted to be admired. I was given the responsibility to open up the worship service which, being an introvert, I didn’t like. But I gutted it out. I was sitting in the pulpit one Sunday during the worship service and for the first time as a Christian I wondered, “Why does God need to be worshipped?” Worship in “fear and trembling”? How is that a good thing to demand of anyone? I thought about terms commonly used in the liturgy like “lord, kingdom, servant, throne, bow before him”, and it hit me like a brick upside my head as I was sitting there: What the hell am I doing? I’m involved in some kind of imperialistic belief system that is not appearing to be.........real. This whole church thing is a stage performance. I don’ t want this anymore. I don’t need this. Add to the nonsensical idea of worship all the other things I had observed for years in my involvement in church ministry. The politics. The power struggles. The pettiness. The self-righteous pretension. The shame- inducing legalism. The obsession with money. The emotionalism. Arrogant, smooth-talking, pretend-to-know-it-all preachers who try to be your daddy. Church did nothing for me but feed my fear of failure to the point of wanting to commit suicide. I walked away from it all with no goodbyes and no second thought. Today I feel so much better about myself without church and the belief in God. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ SHAOLIN ◊ Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 8/6/2017 at 10:50 AM, SeaJay said: Why did Jesus have to die for the sins of the world? This is one thought on the matter. Because sin leads to death, spiritual (and physical; the Biblical reason for why everything is in decay). Sin entered the world through one 'man' so the parallel is that it leaves the world through one 'man'. One man brought sin in, so one man takes sin out. Jesus lived a sinless life, so was the perfect sacrifice. Such is the theology - theology based on a book with numerous scientific, historical, moral and logical contradictions and inconsistencies, and stories that make no sense. A cut and pasted hodgepodge of confusion. Theology can sound logical. But has any of it been confirmed to be true? Theology is not reality unless it can be confirmed in the reality in which we exist. If not, it cannot be taken seriously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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