things we can agree are right/wrong no matter our religions/beliefs what can we agree on?

[Joefizz]

6 hours ago, buffettphan said:

 

I think our unicorns might be cousins.  You have the Southern Hemisphere variety and I have the Northern Hemisphere one.   Mine provides unlimited beer at my request (better than anything any god ever provided).  Yours?            

A unicorn giving someone poison upon request,and that's help?

Bizarre...

[Joefizz]

17 hours ago, Vigile said:

 

The original Twilight Zone had an episode about this. A gangster was shot and walked through a door into a mansion where everything was perfect. At first he was thrilled, but later discovered how bad it was that everything worked out his own way. He couldn't play pool as his first shot would knock in every ball. Every woman he looked at was ready for him without any effort on his part. At the end of the episode he realized he wasn't in fact in heaven, but in hell. 

I've seen that episode and it is rather fascinating as is every episode of Twilight Zone that I've seen,not only for it's scary yet many times accurate scenarios,but also finding that each episode is about real world issues,Rod Serling using the scary and bizarre themes to still express his views on world issues when people were pestering him to stop speaking on them,it was a very clever and bold move because with the scary and bizarre themes hiding his views,only those who understood his hidden messages,would think on them,making certain people upset but they backed off of him,due to the clever series somewhat.

[Joefizz]

11 hours ago, SerenelyBlue said:

Joefizz, do you realize that you are doing harm to the image of Christianity by displaying faulty reasoning and lack of knowledge?  Send us someone who can be an ambassador for Christ.  You are doing more harm than good.  This is not the right place to sow your seeds of evangelism.

Well I don't claim to be an "Expert" on Christianity or the bible,I only about 4 or 5 years ago gave my life to God,the holy spirit gives me knowledge and often speaks through me,so that I can stand with others whether Christian or not in discussions about the bible,or God,but I realize that my initial knowledge even on the bible is still lacking,so I can hardly,"Hurt" Christianity's "Image" because under a technical stand point I'm just getting started, I'm not a scholar,preacher or teacher,I'm simply myself as a servant of God,but through him I can do much more than by my own wits alone f a  situation requires his helping me with knowledge or simply speaking for me as needed,besides as far as "Hurting" Christianity's "Image" whatever that image may be,it is not my concern,I am actually humble toward God,meaning I don't limit myself to simply hiding behind a big name in religion.

Yes I say I'm a "Christian" because it's the only reasonable term faith wise that I am aware of aside from the original term of "Gentile",but I suppose considering I do accept Christ Jesus as saviour that the name suits me,if that's to be my labeled name then so be it,but the name "Christian" doesn't mean that I'm just like every other Christian traditional wise or ethnic wise,I still hold more to certain values that some Christians don't value,like for example being "open minded" many a ChristianChristian I know is quick to shut out non believers or people of different faiths,I am quite the opposite,I encourage non believers or people of other faiths to learn of the bible,whether for knowledge purpose or conversion purpose,respecting each person's "Independence" instead of sending them to the door so quickly as many people whether Christian or not that I know do,I feel like an outcast at times but that's nothing new,just like saul later named paul in the bible was in a sense for many years,I answer to only God,not to any religion or faith,if anyone gets mad at that they can simply say what they want about me,it's not a problem for me,I'll just simply serve God no matter what happens,I'm not serving God to get approval from people of every thing I do,so long as God approves of what I do for him,I'm willing to be on a solitary path without even support from religion.

[sdelsolray]

40 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

...

the holy spirit gives me knowledge and often speaks through me

...

 

 

How would you know if you were wrong about these two claims?

[buffettphan]

4 hours ago, Joefizz said:

A unicorn giving someone poison upon request,and that's help?

Bizarre...

 

 

Your apparent opinion that beer is poison is one more thing does not fit into the theme/title of this thread.   

 

 

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, buffettphan said:

 

 

Your apparent opinion that beer is poison is one more thing does not fit into the theme/title of this thread.   

 

 

 

Is wine poison too?

[midniterider]

"I answer to only God,not to any religion or faith,if anyone gets mad at that they can simply say what they want about me,it's not a problem for me,I'll just simply serve God no matter what happens,I'm not serving God to get approval from people of every thing I do,so long as God approves of what I do for him,I'm willing to be on a solitary path without even support from religion. "

 

...

 

A solitary path is my favorite.

[LogicalFallacy]

13 hours ago, buffettphan said:

 

I think our unicorns might be cousins.  You have the Southern Hemisphere variety and I have the Northern Hemisphere one.   Mine provides unlimited beer at my request (better than anything any god ever provided).  Yours?            

 

Mine is a transcendent, immaterial, invisible Pink Unicorn.

 

It's generally fairly non committal at granting requests, can't be seen and no one has been able to disprove its existence, nor can you - thus my unicorn is almighty!

 

However I'd be able to disprove yours - if I was with you and you requested beer, and nothing happened, that would prove the non-existence of your material unicorn   

 

[LogicalFallacy]

@Joefizz

 

You didn't answer my questions I asked several posts above:

 

23 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

So for you what is "Sin"

 

And how did this "Sin" come about?

 

Cheers

LF

 

[Realist]

6 hours ago, Joefizz said:

Well I don't claim to be an "Expert" on Christianity or the bible,I only about 4 or 5 years ago gave my life to God,the holy spirit gives me knowledge and often speaks through me,so that I can stand with others whether Christian or not in discussions about the bible,or God,but I realize that my initial knowledge even on the bible is still lacking,so I can hardly,"Hurt" Christianity's "Image" because under a technical stand point I'm just getting started, I'm not a scholar,preacher or teacher,I'm simply myself as a servant of God,but through him I can do much more than by my own wits alone f a  situation requires his helping me with knowledge or simply speaking for me as needed,besides as far as "Hurting" Christianity's "Image" whatever that image may be,it is not my concern,I am actually humble toward God,meaning I don't limit myself to simply hiding behind a big name in religion.

Yes I say I'm a "Christian" because it's the only reasonable term faith wise that I am aware of aside from the original term of "Gentile",but I suppose considering I do accept Christ Jesus as saviour that the name suits me,if that's to be my labeled name then so be it,but the name "Christian" doesn't mean that I'm just like every other Christian traditional wise or ethnic wise,I still hold more to certain values that some Christians don't value,like for example being "open minded" many a ChristianChristian I know is quick to shut out non believers or people of different faiths,I am quite the opposite,I encourage non believers or people of other faiths to learn of the bible,whether for knowledge purpose or conversion purpose,respecting each person's "Independence" instead of sending them to the door so quickly as many people whether Christian or not that I know do,I feel like an outcast at times but that's nothing new,just like saul later named paul in the bible was in a sense for many years,I answer to only God,not to any religion or faith,if anyone gets mad at that they can simply say what they want about me,it's not a problem for me,I'll just simply serve God no matter what happens,I'm not serving God to get approval from people of every thing I do,so long as God approves of what I do for him,I'm willing to be on a solitary path without even support from religion.

 

... Who are you trying to convince here? Sounds like it is yourself!

 

My best advice to you is that if you want to remain a christian don't linger too long in this Lion's Den!

[bornagainathiest]

On 9/1/2017 at 10:59 PM, Joefizz said:

Precisely why I said "to me" indicating that this is one of my personal beliefs on the matter of hell whether biblically or not.

 

Then you cannot demonstrate the validity of your personal belief to me with evidence that I can see, examine and be persuaded by, Joe.

 

In the same way, I cannot demonstrate my personal belief in an invisible teapot that orbits the Moon, ten times every day.

 

I can't show you any evidence for it that you can see, examine or be persuaded by.

 

Each of us is stuck in our own belief systems, each asking the other to believe by faith what the other cannot see, examine or be persuaded by.

 

So, can you you see any way out of our impasse?

 

 

[midniterider]

Joe: "I still hold more to certain values that some Christians don't value,like for example being "open minded"

 

Open minded. Sounds great. Would you consider not believing in Jesus for 60 seconds? Just say to yourself, "Starting now and for the next 60 seconds, I do not believe in Jesus." Then after a minute say, "I now resume my belief in Jesus." See if anything out of the ordinary happens. Or if nothing happens. Try it for 5 minutes. Try it for an hour. Or a day. Be open minded!

[Joefizz]

5 hours ago, midniterider said:

Joe: "I still hold more to certain values that some Christians don't value,like for example being "open minded"

 

Open minded. Sounds great. Would you consider not believing in Jesus for 60 seconds? Just say to yourself, "Starting now and for the next 60 seconds, I do not believe in Jesus." Then after a minute say, "I now resume my belief in Jesus." See if anything out of the ordinary happens. Or if nothing happens. Try it for 5 minutes. Try it for an hour. Or a day. Be open minded!

Nope not gonna happen,I said I am "open minded" not dim witted and easily talked into doing something I simply can't do,I'll talk in discussion about theories,I'll joke about silly things,but I can't denounce God,Jesus,or the holy spirit,that's how far I am on my path with God,/Jesus,I have given my life and servitude to him and there's no turning back for me.

[sdelsolray]

9 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Nope not gonna happen,I said I am "open minded" not dim witted and easily talked into doing something I simply can't do,I'll talk in discussion about theories,I'll joke about silly things,but I can't denounce God,Jesus,or the holy spirit,that's how far I am on my path with God,/Jesus,I have given my life and servitude to him and there's no turning back for me.

 

Confirmed.  This one is deeply infected with a Christian god virus.  Note also that poster Joefizz earlier denied he was indoctrinated as a child.  Yep, deeply infected.  He's a funny guy, as well as pathetic.

[Joefizz]

6 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

 

Then you cannot demonstrate the validity of your personal belief to me with evidence that I can see, examine and be persuaded by, Joe.

 

In the same way, I cannot demonstrate my personal belief in an invisible teapot that orbits the Moon, ten times every day.

 

I can't show you any evidence for it that you can see, examine or be persuaded by.

 

Each of us is stuck in our own belief systems, each asking the other to believe by faith what the other cannot see, examine or be persuaded by.

 

So, can you you see any way out of our impasse?

 

 

I suppose we can't be out from this,but we can always be as many people through the centuries,very sure individuals continueing to establish "Reasons" for why we believe our beliefs to be true,and overtime perhaps one shall simply hold more evidence in some form or more observations to prove one's view on beliefs to be more accurate.

Long has humanity had to eventually believe in something or someone in order to overcome the fear of certain things"not seen" like in Columbus's day,people feared the earth to be flat and full of terrible creatures in it's waters,with eventually only the part about terrible creatures in the waters being true where as the part about the earth being flat being in time proven to be not true,with the idea sparked and later proven that the entire earth is round instead,perhaps one of us may accept the other's views in beliefs as entirely true,but such things take time.

[Joefizz]

6 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Confirmed.  This one is deeply infected with a Christian god virus.  Note also that poster Joefizz earlier denied he was indoctrinated as a child.  Yep, deeply infected.  He's a funny guy, as well as pathetic.

Well I don't pretend to be perfect,I may say something then something else later without thinking on a previous post,of myself contradicting,but I'm not about to let it bother me,mistakes happen,you accept them and move on,or you don't,I would rather accept a mistake and move on than dwell on a mistake and accomplish nothing,although there are times when I can correct a mistake but if that time is over then I'm not about to worry about it.

[sdelsolray]

14 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Well I don't pretend to be perfect,I may say something then something else later without thinking on a previous post,of myself contradicting,but I'm not about to let it bother me,mistakes happen,you accept them and move on,or you don't,I would rather accept a mistake and move on than dwell on a mistake and accomplish nothing,although there are times when I can correct a mistake but if that time is over then I'm not about to worry about it.

 

Is this an example of your holy spirit sky fairy giving you knowledge or speaking through you?

 

Reference

Joefizz in an earlier post in this thread:

...

the holy spirit gives me knowledge and often speaks through me

...

[Joefizz]

20 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

@Joefizz

 

You didn't answer my questions I asked several posts above:

 

 

What is sin to me?

And how did this sin come about?

 Well I know sin to be something one must be "aware of" in order to do such a wrong doing,as in one know's what it means to sin from a reasonable stand point,I suppose the best way to clarify sin is as wrong doings that are done by anyone whether intentionally or unintentionally.

As to how such sin came about,it came  about from one who was "aware of sin" and "had sinned",lucifer the former ark angel introduced sin into the world by intentionally giving Eve a new abundance of thoughts to think on that were opposite of what God had taught Adam,his purpose being to divide God Adam and Eve,in the same manner can sin come about by someone intentionally seeking an individual to do wrong so they introduce a new way of thinking to the individual to seem "Wise" yet instead being "Foolish".

So in my view to summarize,sin is a new way of thinking that leads to doing wrong that is contrary to our original mind sets as children or particularly unaware of sin,and so is known as wrong doings by God and especially when one seeks to introduce sin to others intentionally.

[Joefizz]

13 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Is this an example of your holy spirit sky fairy giving you knowledge or speaking through you?

 

Reference

Joefizz in an earlier post in this thread:

No because it is all my own knowledge,I often need the holy spirit's help concerning answering "tough questions" not trivial easily answered questions or the like.

[Joefizz]

19 hours ago, Realist said:

... Who are you trying to convince here? Sounds like it is yourself!

 

My best advice to you is that if you want to remain a christian don't linger too long in this Lion's Den!

Funny,So I can lose my faith and religion through talking to others can I?

Well I'm still a Christian,so I suppose you are worried about something that will not come to pass,thanks for the concern though,and as to who I'm trying to "Convincince", I'm not necessarily here to convince anyone of anything if someone becomes convinced that God is real and them want to serve him through reading my post that is great then to me,but as I said a few times earlier I'm not forcefeeding anyone,I respect that the creators and members of this site come here as a place comfort,support,and recovery,from their run ins with particularly Christianity,I'm here merely for giving the possibility of anyone returning to serve or wanting to serve God,aside from that I like the discussions here no matter what results from what I share,it's just sort of another "Home" to me.

[sdelsolray]

50 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

No because it is all my own knowledge,I often need the holy spirit's help concerning answering "tough questions" not trivial easily answered questions or the like.

 

Do you make a distinction between or among belief, knowledge and assertion?

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, Joefizz said:

Nope not gonna happen,I said I am "open minded" not dim witted and easily talked into doing something I simply can't do,I'll talk in discussion about theories,I'll joke about silly things,but I can't denounce God,Jesus,or the holy spirit,that's how far I am on my path with God,/Jesus,I have given my life and servitude to him and there's no turning back for me.

 

C'mon man! Everybody's doin' it. LoL. Just kidding.

 

Nah, you're not dim witted. Plenty of highly intelligent people get sucked into Christianity. Belief relies on the emotional (not-so-logical) part of your brain, not the logical part. I think that's where politics operates as well.

[Joefizz]

34 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

C'mon man! Everybody's doin' it. LoL. Just kidding.

 

Nah, you're not dim witted. Plenty of highly intelligent people get sucked into Christianity. Belief relies on the emotional (not-so-logical) part of your brain, not the logical part. I think that's where politics operates as well.

LOL,Every body's doing it?

Now where have I heard that before?

oh yeah...School LOL!

[Realist]

2 hours ago, Joefizz said:

Funny,So I can lose my faith and religion through talking to others can I?

Well I'm still a Christian,so I suppose you are worried about something that will not come to pass,thanks for the concern though,and as to who I'm trying to "Convincince", I'm not necessarily here to convince anyone of anything if someone becomes convinced that God is real and them want to serve him through reading my post that is great then to me,but as I said a few times earlier I'm not forcefeeding anyone,I respect that the creators and members of this site come here as a place comfort,support,and recovery,from their run ins with particularly Christianity,I'm here merely for giving the possibility of anyone returning to serve or wanting to serve God,aside from that I like the discussions here no matter what results from what I share,it's just sort of another "Home" to me.

 

...so you became indoctrinated at the age of 20 ... so no one can change your mind! LOL!

 

What was the cause ... a bad period in your life? Drugs? Some grief? Maybe a death? Childhood indoctrination which FINALLY lead to it? 

 

Those of us who have been around this virus WAY more years than you have been on this planet realize that people SUDDENLY, without ANY reason do not get an urge at the age of 20 and just happen one day to "find god" without some mind changing human help!

 

[Joefizz]

31 minutes ago, Realist said:

 

...so you became indoctrinated at the age of 20 ... so no one can change your mind! LOL!

 

What was the cause ... a bad period in your life? Drugs? Some grief? Maybe a death? Childhood indoctrination which FINALLY lead to it? 

 

Those of us who have been around this virus WAY more years than you have been on this planet realize that people SUDDENLY, without ANY reason do not get an urge at the age of 20 and just happen one day to "find god" without some mind changing human help!

 

Well I already was around religion and doctrine long before I became an adult but that actually didn't hold really much weight concerning actually "Trusting" in God,when I was about 5 or so I just simply "Knew" God and satan existed from the calling on me to do something that each did concerning me over the years the further I went in life,the more I became aware "without human help"that I had to choose which entity to serve though for many years I thought I could either serve both or simply just do what I wanted but nothing ever worked out for me in either case.

See my problem was that I wanted to "Help people" you know like just ordinary stuff help people with money who were in need things of that nature,but each time I tried doing good I ended doing bad instead,whether verbally or physically,it was so annoying because I really wanted to help others but more often than not I would do something hurtful instead of helpful,many times unintentionally and kept wondering why for so long.

I already knew plenty about Church before going to my church I later became a member of and how I would hear much of the same stuff that was so boring or seemed so "Phony" to me but it wasn't really the "Message" that changed me,it was the "actions" and "behaviours"that I witnessed that baffled me!

I kept asking myself questions like,"why do they speak so authoritively yet kindly with teaching or preaching the bible"?

"how can they believe in a God that they cannot see"?

"why do some cry when speaking on sin"?

"how can they be so caring despite so many people treating them so badly"?

"How can they be so happy when financially they are so poor"?

such things kept piling up in my mind making me wonder,"what have I been doing with my life"?

"Is it possible to join God now after putting him on the backburner for so long"?

"Will God be alright with me choosing to serve him all of a sudden"?

"Have I waited too long to be able to serve God"?(18 years or so)

So it's not that Christianity dragged me back in,it's that I wanted to know what it was to believe for real,one of my favorite relatable moments in the movie Polar Express reminds me of what it was like trying to believe when I didn't exactly know how,the kid wanting to hear Santa's reindeer bells,but he couldn't,because he was putting off what he believed it was only once he could not only say the words but actually believe in the words as well"I believe" that he could hear even one reindeer bell ring,and that's how I was,analyzing everything and everyone,thinking on so much that everything had an explanation,that I never really asked myself the honest question"Do I believe in anything"?

Because I never really thought on that just because I see something doesn't mean I believed in it,and then some things I couldn't always see like my own breath and yet it didn't mean that I believed in it,just like God and satan, never once did I ever receive a discernably accurate picture of either one yet would I have believed upon either one even with "evidence" of any sort,sure I in a sense knew they were there,but what of myself?

I kept wondering could I ever believe in anything?

could I even ever understand what "Love" was considering that for so long I had yet to experience affection?

I never had to really "Find" God,I just simply couldn't "believe upon him for help and comfort" because I had yet to understand what "belief" was and even "how to care"because I really was a cold hearted,and uncaring person even as a child at times,so it was finally when I actually decided to open up my doubting mind and stone cold heart to possibilities that I began to believe in God and overtime entirely,because I wanted more than my repetitive going no where lifestyle,I really wanted to learn "how to care" and if it was possible for me to "believe in anything".