more in depth questions for Joefizz to answer about religion,etc.

[Joefizz]

Since people are curious about why I believe in God,why I decided to be for God after so many years,and other such questions,direct your questions to this thread so we can talk in accordance with the rules here,for I've been told by a mod to post religious belief things only in the Lion's Den so respectfully I'll abide by that,if you have a "Serious" question feel free to ask!

[buffettphan]

I will be moving Joe's out-of-place comments from various sub-forums to this thread.  Just give me some time to find them all.      Thanks.

 

 

ETA:  ^ That was too much trouble.  It was easier to move his whole introductory thread in its entirety to the Lion's Den, so that's what I did.  I also hid other comments.  That's about all the time I want to waste on him.   

[midniterider]

Why did God place the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil right smack dab in the middle of the Garden of Eden and then tell Adam and Eve not eat from it?

 

Additionally, since Adam and Eve must not have had any knowledge of good or evil prior to eating from that tree, why would (an intelligent) God expect Adam and Eve to be able to discern that he was the one they should pay attention to and not the snake?

 

.......

 

Intelligent/wise humans are generally given responsibility over lesser intelligent (or lesser wise) humans such as children or those adults who are unable to function well in society. These caretakers do their best to prevent situations where their charges will 'surely die' if they do something stupid. Humans know that if you say, "Dont push that button" , someone most definitely is going to push that button.

 

The Adam and Eve story strongly points to God actually WANTING them to eat the fruit that he told them not to eat. Why not just tell them to eat it and skip the curse of original sin?  I guess God would rather just screw with people's heads. That's trust-breaking.

[Joefizz]

1 hour ago, yunea said:

So why do you believe, Joefizz?

Ok now that I'm in the "Proper"place to post I'll explain...

For most of my life I've lived in a "Christian home environment" and for many years I was force fed Christian beliefs,on top of this I eventually kept sensing that I had a big role to play in life,the only question was for "Who"? God or the devil,well I stayed undecided,for a few years and got baptized just to make my adopted mother happy,and I even thought I could "Handle" being "Good" without God's help,but as time went on I kept unintentionally hurting people whether emotionally or physically,and in time it started to scare me,and tried to do believe upon God and bind myself to him,only one "Big" problem,my first church and even my adopted family couldn't tell me how to do right for God or give my life to God yet they would by "Routine" go to church and "say" they believed in God,so that's nice they were hypocrites,so despite wanting to know how to do right by God and be bound to God,I had noone who "Knew" to begin with yet the said they did,talk about a headache.

Anyways,I eventually went through school graduating,to get it over with,and get out from at the very least my adopted father's house because him and my adopted sister would curse,and be hateful and want me to work just to make tbeir life easier,so I moved out to an Aunt's house then kept moving from relative to relative pretty much with most my life primarily being "Video games"but after awhile I finally found my "Real" mother and two brothers on facebook,and moved in with mom,and did my best to keep sleaze balls from being around her,and eventually talked her into moving out from the sex crazed,insulting,and condescending,men that went after her in the place we were in,so we finally moved into a great apartment complex,(seriously one of the best in Tennessee,reservations required and if you leave you can't come back!)so for once in my life I had "Time to think",and my mother's family had given me advice on life,and my pappaw gave me some wallets and a bible,so I started reading the bible here and there(didn't have a serious one,just a kid bible...)

and began learning and trying to memorize the bible a little(already knew some passages Jonah being my favorite for the longest)but nothing seemed to change me.

So overtime after reading some of what the bible said I decided,well now I "Should" "Try" to believe in God,so I kept it in mind,and just kept with playing video games,and getting online,stuff like that,I was particular fond of strategy war games and demon slaying games(still am)and I kept selling my stuff to "Get by" since I had no job,and couldn't stand not helping out in some way,so I kept either pawning or selling my stuff,I accumulated over the years,and noticed for some reason that it made me feel"Happy",but as time went on I was still unintentionally cold and cruel to others in some ways,and it bothered me,but what bothered me most was finding out that my mother was a harlot(those sleaze balls were her "True" loves,and fun guys)but I kept telling her "I don't care" when she wanted a new or old man around(still was better then the evil sicko she was with previously,wanted to kill that jerk at one point he never showed up anymore)

Anyways as time dragged on I kept wanting to do right and eventually,my younger brother invited me to go to church and would drive me,well I was ok with it because it was his "Family" church and one of the main reasons I wanted to be around Mom's side of the family was to meet family I never knew because of adoption(some numbskull twisted my leg a baby while I was not even 1 years old, breaking it,so I was taken from Mom,because it was one of her friends,and she wasn't present when it happened,the friend was "Trusted")

so we started going to church while I got to know family and was even more "Happy",then I started wanting to know more particularly about God and casting out demons,because I felt for so long that"something" was kind of lingering with me,getting me to act horribly when I was trying to do right and be kind,then I noticed something the more I started "Learning" about God and the bible the more odd and wicked things started happening to me out of the blue,like the pastor of the church getting right in my face pretty much wanting to "Fight me" all because I said a remark from water boy..."You can do it"!

So I kept"Trying" to learn more,and eventually I asked about baptism and salvation that they mentioned(salvation wasn't mentioned in my first church,go figure)

but particularly about salvation,because the curious thing was that unlike baptism they didn't mention a tradition or ceremony to be saved,so needless to say my mind went around the block and back again because it didn't make sense to me starting out.

Well they finally told me it was a "Knowing" thing,and I thought on it and wasn't all that understanding or motivated,but later when Mom was driving me ape(Bipolar mental problems)with talking forever about random stuff from her past,and then just wanting to sleep and not go to church,my younger brother told me..."Aren't you going to church"?

I said..."No I think I'll sleep mom's got me having a headache"

he said"that's no reason to not go come on don't worry about her,let's go

So I went to church and kept on going and particularly what inspired me to accept Salvation or even believe at all was the change in that same younger brother,that "Truly" believed on God,and I decided to strive to believe as well,started taking the bible seriously and eventually even asked God to save my soul,humbly and sincerely,my entire body on the floor and rears in my eyes because I wanted to do right through God realizing that I needed him to keep from doing so much wrong and realizing Jesus as saviour whom died for my sins,then accepting the holy spirit and doing what I could for God,so...

Why do I believe in God?

because I know I can trust him and I know what I feel when speaking through the holy spirit for him,I am not some silly evangelist or person putting on or some person brain washed into believing upon God,it was "My Choice" and I believe entirely,not because of what I've simply been forced to observe or what I've been told,simply because I myself "Know" that God is Real,and has kept me alive despite having my leg broken as a baby,having seizures,being stung in the ear,hitting my elbow into glass by accident,skinning my entire knee,hitting my head countless times,burning a finger,crashing a bike into a tree,all things I could have either died from or at least gotten an infection ir permanent scarring from yet I didn't,God has clearly always been there for me I simply didn't notice.

[Joefizz]

1 hour ago, buffettphan said:

I will be moving Joe's out-of-place comments from various sub-forums to this thread.  Just give me some time to find them all.      Thanks.

 

 

ETA:  ^ That was too much trouble.  It was easier to move his whole introductory thread in its entirety to the Lion's Den, so that's what I did.  I also hid other comments.  That's about all the time I want to waste on him.   

Thanks I appreciate your effort,Mods aren't usually so "Kind",alot I've met are a bit on the quickly upset side,especially in Christian sites,if you'd care to know.

[yunea]

Thanks for responding. 

 

6 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

because I know I can trust him and I know what I feel when speaking through the holy spirit for him,I am not some silly evangelist or person putting on or some person brain washed into believing upon God,it was "My Choice" and I believe entirely,not because of what I've simply been forced to observe or what I've been told,simply because I myself "Know" that God is Real,and has kept me alive despite having my leg broken as a baby,having seizures,being stung in the ear,hitting my elbow into glass by accident,skinning my entire knee,hitting my head countless times,burning a finger,crashing a bike into a tree,all things I could have either died from or at least gotten an infection ir permanent scarring from yet I didn't,God has clearly always been there for me I simply didn't notice.

Almost exactly what I said when I was Pentecostal myself, with of course different details regarding where I'd apparently been "taken care of". Hell if I were to dig up my old diary I'd probably find the chapter I wrote that was almost exactly this.  

[Joefizz]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

Why did God place the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil right smack dab in the middle of the Garden of Eden and then tell Adam and Eve not eat from it?

 

Additionally, since Adam and Eve must not have had any knowledge of good or evil prior to eating from that tree, why would (an intelligent) God expect Adam and Eve to be able to discern that he was the one they should pay attention to and not the snake?

 

.......

 

Intelligent/wise humans are generally given responsibility over lesser intelligent (or lesser wise) humans such as children or those adults who are unable to function well in society. These caretakers do their best to prevent situations where their charges will 'surely die' if they do something stupid. Humans know that if you say, "Dont push that button" , someone most definitely is going to push that button.

 

The Adam and Eve story strongly points to God actually WANTING them to eat the fruit that he told them not to eat. Why not just tell them to eat it and skip the curse of original sin?  I guess God would rather just screw with people's heads. That's trust-breaking.

Well if you think about it "Sin" hadn't occurred on earth yet so there was no reason for God to think that they would sin,though as to why he put the tree in the center and told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree,it's simple enough to figure,God was "Testing" them to see if he could establish "Trust" with them,he didn't mention the serpent aka devil because he was focusing their thoughts to himself and each other,so they would not be "Tempted" if lucifer would tell them otherwise,but satan knew how to be sneaky,going to eve(who was told by adam not God to not eat of the tree of good and evil nor touch it) her being less knowledgeable thereby being "Able" be tricked where as Adam wasn't "Able" tp be tricked,or to put things in perspective,why go and try to get someone to slip up who is "Aware" of what is right when you can seek someone is "Not as Aware" of what is right and wrong and get both to do wrong,because satan knew that for one God would not kill adam or eve,because God didn't kill him body and soul,so he did what he could to "warp" eve's mind having her think of becoming a God and getting knowledge,and then thereafter seeking adam to eat as well,without having asked if she should have eaten of the tree or not.

[Joefizz]

16 minutes ago, yunea said:

Thanks for responding. 

 

Almost exactly what I said when I was Pentecostal myself, with of course different details regarding where I'd apparently been "taken care of". Hell if I were to dig up my old diary I'd probably find the chapter I wrote that was almost exactly this.  

I would reckon so as some mentioned here,most have been down a path of religion,and there are bound to be similarities in our past paths in life.

[yunea]

2 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

I would reckon so as some mentioned here,most have been down a path of religion,and there are bound to be similarities in our past paths in life.

 

Yes, and many of us felt we really personally knew jesus and felt/noticed him working in our lives. We didn't call it path of religion, we called it following jesus our lord and saviour (or variations of it depending on the church, some may have called it "giving ourselves to lord" or somesuch).

[Joefizz]

10 minutes ago, yunea said:

 

Yes, and many of us felt we really personally knew jesus and felt/noticed him working in our lives. We didn't call it path of religion, we called it following jesus our lord and saviour (or variations of it depending on the church, some may have called it "giving ourselves to lord" or somesuch).

Yeah I call it many things like "doing right for God" instead of mentioning religion so much because as some have said "Religion" can mess up plenty because alot of it is people coming up with "ideas"'of what should be done or shouldn't be done then contradicting themselves,and I don't even much bother with the different sects of Christianity,seriously what was wrong with,just it being "Christianity"?

People "making up stuff to add on" it's really silly to me,especially when some churches claim to be "Christian" churches and yet they do opposite of what the bible says for example "snake churches" they are a cult but they claim to be Christian,just because they read the bible long enough to figure something that fits their "Pleasures",like just because they know of moses having a staff that turned into a snake and then changing back to a staff or even the ever popular wrong context quote from the bible speaking of that as a follower of God you "Can" take up serpents it doesn't say you must,you would think common sense would tell them...

"wait a second we "Can" take up serpents if needed but we shouldn't take them up willy nilly like some great fad"

seriously whether a believer or non believer,you start to wonder about people like that where their brain was focused,I mean come on I remember Lion king,Mufasa saying to simba,"being brave doesn't mean you go looking for trouble" and that's exactly what a person is doing gathering snakes and jumping around with them,because it's a no brainer that a snake will bite because they don't like that,Duh,here in Tennessee a so called snake church preacher picked up a snake in church,got bitten then died,yet what did his family say..."It was his time to go" "he's in heaven I'm sure",I'm sitting there like..."ok so the guy willingly picks up a poisonous snake jumps around with it gets bitten and he goes to heaven? no because that is "Suicide" apparently they missed the part where Judas Iscariot "tried" committing suicide and it wasn't right with God,one of the commandments is "thou shalt not kill" hello! that includes "Yourself",kind of like jumping off a cliff willfully and expecting God to keep you from doing something stupid while your doing it,but naturally he doesn't why? because we have "Free will" noone has to choose to believe in God or do right by God,if a person wants to go and get killed by way of something dumb that is "their choice".

 

[sdelsolray]

2 hours ago, Joefizz said:

Since people are curious about why I believe in God,why I decided to be for God after so many years,and other such questions,direct your questions to this thread so we can talk in accordance with the rules here,for I've been told by a mod to post religious belief things only in the Lion's Den so respectfully I'll abide by that,if you have a "Serious" question feel free to ask!

 

Yes, please explain how much of an impact the combination of (i) your years and years of childhood religious indoctrination from trusted adults and (ii) years and years of religious peer pressure from parents, family, church leaders and members and others had upon your "decision" to be for your particular god. 

[Joefizz]

16 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Yes, please explain how much of an impact the combination of (i) your years and years of childhood religious indoctrination from trusted adults and (ii) years and years of religious peer pressure from parents, family, church leaders and members and others had upon your "decision" to be for your particular god. 

Well I took the bad with the good learning from mostly the bad in what I was put through such as in my first church being "dragged up the stairs" of the church,because I didn't want to go to the classes I wanted to just hang out in the church library or talk to people,apparently they objected and considered it some form of rebellion,so yeah some past things influenced me as well as later things,but it all came down to me "Wanting" to be for God,not what others"wanted",considering some of the things they "wanted" in my later church were overbearing,like.."read your bible every day","pray before you read the bible",if you think it you might as well have done it",but you know how it is every person has their good points and bad points including in religion,after all none of us is perfect,so yeah I'd say my choice was mostly from the intention to "Do Right" instead of do what others in church or family"wanted",so all in all my own individual choice.

 

[sdelsolray]

1 hour ago, Joefizz said:

Well I took the bad with the good learning from mostly the bad in what I was put through such as in my first church being "dragged up the stairs" of the church,because I didn't want to go to the classes I wanted to just hang out in the church library or talk to people,apparently they objected and considered it some form of rebellion,so yeah some past things influenced me as well as later things,but it all came down to me "Wanting" to be for God,not what others"wanted",considering some of the things they "wanted" in my later church were overbearing,like.."read your bible every day","pray before you read the bible",if you think it you might as well have done it",but you know how it is every person has their good points and bad points including in religion,after all none of us is perfect,so yeah I'd say my choice was mostly from the intention to "Do Right" instead of do what others in church or family"wanted",so all in all my own individual choice.

 

 

Denial is an early stage of deconversion.

[bornagainathiest]

Joe,

 

Why do you believe Genesis 1:1 (that God created the universe) when a proper examination of the scientific evidence rules out that possibility?

[Joefizz]

2 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

Joe,

 

Why do you believe Genesis 1:1 (that God created the universe) when a proper examination of the scientific evidence rules out that possibility?

Why do scientists believe that it's possible that the universe created itself?I'm aware of the "Big Bang theory" of how the universe came in to being,as I recall stephen hawkings I think posed that theory and while most all of it makes sense there is just one thing that doesn't make sense in that theory,as I understand it in that theory the universe some how was already here and then it shrunk until all the atoms collided then afterward the universe expanded to what it is now,the problem I find with the theory is the part that leaves out where the universe came from,because one can figure out where the universe expanded,but where did the universe come from before the expansion once again,I "Logically" will stick with that God created the universe and can accept the part of the theory,of the universe expanding,but it just stands to reason that something or someone had to "Create" the universe "Before"'it expanded,think on it a bit and you'll get what I mean.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

4 hours ago, Joefizz said:

Well if you think about it "Sin" hadn't occurred on earth yet so there was no reason for God to think that they would sin,though as to why he put the tree in the center and told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree,it's simple enough to figure,God was "Testing" them to see if he could establish "Trust" with them,he didn't mention the serpent aka devil because he was focusing their thoughts to himself and each other,so they would not be "Tempted" if lucifer would tell them otherwise,but satan knew how to be sneaky,going to eve(who was told by adam not God to not eat of the tree of good and evil nor touch it) her being less knowledgeable thereby being "Able" be tricked where as Adam wasn't "Able" tp be tricked,or to put things in perspective,why go and try to get someone to slip up who is "Aware" of what is right when you can seek someone is "Not as Aware" of what is right and wrong and get both to do wrong,because satan knew that for one God would not kill adam or eve,because God didn't kill him body and soul,so he did what he could to "warp" eve's mind having her think of becoming a God and getting knowledge,and then thereafter seeking adam to eat as well,without having asked if she should have eaten of the tree or not.

 

But your god already knew that Adam and Eve would fail the test. He already knew that the serpent/Satan would tempt them into disobeying. He already knew how the entire situation was going to turn out, therefore there was no need to test them in the first place. It seems like he intentionally allowed the serpent into the garden in the first place. Adam and Eve were clearly set up to fail. Why would your god do that?

[Joefizz]

22 minutes ago, crazyguy123 said:

 

But your god already knew that Adam and Eve would fail the test. He already knew that the serpent/Satan would tempt them into disobeying. He already knew how the entire situation was going to turn out, therefore there was no need to test them in the first place. It seems like he intentionally allowed the serpent into the garden in the first place. Adam and Eve were clearly set up to fail. Why would your god do that?

Well God could have cast out satan from the garden but he would just have tried again and Adam and Eve would have become more dependent on God calling him for many things instead of "Trusting" him to "Deal" with satan,because then it would be that they would live in fear of satan,instead of God for one,God indeed knew of what was to occur and considered what would happen depending upon his actions,if he had cast out satan then Adam and Eve would bothered God every waking moment instead of having "Faith" in God,but by allowing satan to act "All" of those involved were cursed by God,so as that all "Feared" God,was it within God's power to cast out satan?

Yes,would it have done any good,No,satan simply would have tried to trouble Adam and Eve in some other way,but through God's choice,the serpent aka satan was cursed and Eve and her children were forever to be at war with satan,so God actually took a tough situation and made satan receive the worst of curses "justifiably" meaning that satan couldn't dispute that what he did was wrong and received an appropriate curse for his actions,because sure Adam,got a lump in his throat,Eve had to sorrowfully and painfully have children,but satan was lowered and status being named curse above all cattle and informed that he would forever be battling against particularly the woman Eve and her children forever,as in that pretty much All of the future generations of people would be "Aware" of what satan did and each person would be against him for his wrong doing,so no longer did he have God and his angels to contend with but humanity as well which really made him upset because he wanted to "Weaken" God,not "Strengthen" him,because he knew that each generation would be taught how to counter him,so he became aware then that he took on "More than he could handle",in finishing yes God knew what satan was up to and what the outcome would be but he made "Justifiably" was able to put a curse on satan that was far worse than both Adam and Eve,so all in all God made the right decision,I'm sure it hurt for him to punish Adam and Eve but God had to have a way to end satan's rampage,and so he did what needed to be done.

[Geezer]

I love how Christians assume to know the mind of God. They can tell you, with great confidence, exactly what God thinks about any situation or problem &  precisely how the issue should be dealt with.  

[florduh]

Familiar territory. God is all good, all knowing and all powerful. Except when he can't control his own creations, de debbil, for example, or when he regrets something He Himself has done. Circles, circles, down the drain...

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

24 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

Well God could have cast out satan from the garden but he would just have tried again and Adam and Eve would have become more dependent on God calling him for many things instead of "Trusting" him to "Deal" with satan,because then it would be that they would live in fear of satan,instead of God for one,God indeed knew of what was to occur and considered what would happen depending upon his actions,if he had cast out satan then Adam and Eve would bothered God every waking moment instead of having "Faith" in God,but by allowing satan to act "All" of those involved were cursed by God,so as that all "Feared" God,was it within God's power to cast out satan?

Yes,would it have done any good,No,satan simply would have tried to trouble Adam and Eve in some other way,but through God's choice,the serpent aka satan was cursed and Eve and her children were forever to be at war with satan,so God actually took a tough situation and made satan receive the worst of curses "justifiably" meaning that satan couldn't dispute that what he did was wrong and received an appropriate curse for his actions,because sure Adam,got a lump in his throat,Eve had to sorrowfully and painfully have children,but satan was lowered and status being named curse above all cattle and informed that he would forever be battling against particularly the woman Eve and her children forever,as in that pretty much All of the future generations of people would be "Aware" of what satan did and each person would be against him for his wrong doing,so no longer did he have God and his angels to contend with but humanity as well which really made him upset because he wanted to "Weaken" God,not "Strengthen" him,because he knew that each generation would be taught how to counter him,so he became aware then that he took on "More than he could handle",in finishing yes God knew what satan was up to and what the outcome would be but he made "Justifiably" was able to put a curse on satan that was far worse than both Adam and Eve,so all in all God made the right decision,I'm sure it hurt for him to punish Adam and Eve but God had to have a way to end satan's rampage,and so he did what needed to be done.

 

Shouldn't an all powerful-god easily be able to keep Satan out, no matter how many hundreds or thousands of times he tries to get in? If God would have kept Satan out in the first place, something that would have been extremely easy, then there would have been no reason whatsoever for Adam and Eve to fear Satan and they would have never "bothered God every waking moment instead of having 'Faith' in God". If Satan's multiple attempts to get in were a problem for god, then he's not all that powerful.

 

An even simpler solution might have been to simply not create Satan in the first place, since he already knew that Satan would rebel and corrupt his creation. Being omniscient, he would have already known what Satan was going to do and could have stopped it in the beginning by not creating him to begin with. Why did he not do that? He would not have been interfering with anyone's free will by not creating Satan. A better question for you to ask yourself is, "Why would God create Satan when he already knew beforehand that Satan was going to rebel and successfully ruin his creation?"

[Joefizz]

34 minutes ago, Geezer said:

I love how Christians assume to know the mind of God. They can tell you, with great confidence, exactly what God thinks about any situation or problem &  precisely how the issue should be dealt with.  

Equally astonishing is how that time after time believers as well as God have been proving his presence to all such "Amused" individuals,yet still there are doubters,but no matter it shall be now as it was then,over and over shall we have this endless cycle til judgement day,then I suppose "All" shall "Know" whom is right and who is wrong,I myself have been on both sides of this world,The evil sadistic and non believing side and now the believing kind and authoritive side both equally fascinating but as much "Fun", I've had with both,I now pledge my allegiance to God despite both lucifer and God both calling for me as the saying goes"I've made my bed so I must lie in it" for I know there are but two masters the serpent satan,and God the almighty,perhaps this is why I relate so well to an unbeliever,and speak unto you all so easily because I have experience in both areas of life,both evil and Love,anyways back to more questions to be answered if you so wish,I of course look forward to each one so continue to ask away,I'll be here when I can.

[Joefizz]

1 hour ago, crazyguy123 said:

 

Shouldn't an all powerful-god easily be able to keep Satan out, no matter how many hundreds or thousands of times he tries to get in? If God would have kept Satan out in the first place, something that would have been extremely easy, then there would have been no reason whatsoever for Adam and Eve to fear Satan and they would have never "bothered God every waking moment instead of having 'Faith' in God". If Satan's multiple attempts to get in were a problem for god, then he's not all that powerful.

 

An even simpler solution might have been to simply not create Satan in the first place, since he already knew that Satan would rebel and corrupt his creation. Being omniscient, he would have already known what Satan was going to do and could have stopped it in the beginning by not creating him to begin with. Why did he not do that? He would not have been interfering with anyone's free will by not creating Satan. A better question for you to ask yourself is, "Why would God create Satan when he already knew beforehand that Satan was going to rebel and successfully ruin his creation?"

Well to answer your first presumption God could have simply unmade satan by destroying him body and soul but then satan would learn nothing from his defeat against God's angels before hand and God is loving and it's no wonder he's mentioned as "Father" because he is father to "All" including his angels,let me put this in perspective as simply as I can,lucifer,God's former devout angel,is pretty much one of God's children,he tried to obtain what he wanted from God by force,the objective being to overthrow God and him be ruler in his place hoping for Glory,Power,and Dominion,instead when he put his theory of being equal to God and overthrowing God to the test,he was defeated by God's angels most notably Michael the arch angel,whom lucifer knew he might face seeing as that he himself was an archangel,but he didn't expect to be defeated,but there after being cast out of heaven,when God made man,lucifer waited for the opportune time to seek hurting God in some way and found a way through Eve,lucifer is best summed up as an angel fallen from grace that is now equivalent to a spoiled child that didn't get his way so he tries exacting revenge on his father despite losing soundly,and not accepting defeat.

Why would God not destroy lucifer,body and soul?

Because he is still considered by God to be his child and does not seek to kill him if at all possible,despite lucifer being vengeful toward him,honestly how many people today could kill their own child after them being unruly no matter how long they may trouble them?

I'm not a parent but it's not hard to grasp the concept that no matter when a child becomes an adult a parent will most always see them as their child and care for them no matter how unruly they may become,God is just the same it's not that God can't destroy lucifer,it's that he cares too much for him to simply destroy him entirely,just as with everyone here on earth he cares for everyone but he knows that there will be those who will reject him and mock him or be of unbelief but he always welcomes people when they seek him for guidance.

[Geezer]

Joe it appears you have been infected by the God virus. I regret to inform you that few recover because the virus eats the brain until it no longer functions. 

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, Joefizz said:

Equally astonishing is how that time after time believers as well as God have been proving his presence to all such "Amused" individuals,yet still there are doubters,

 

Proving his presence? How? Showing up in person? Or some coincidence? Or some nice feeling ? Or something else?

[yunea]

5 hours ago, Joefizz said:

I myself have been on both sides of this world,The evil sadistic and non believing side and now the believing kind and authoritive side both equally fascinating but as much "Fun", I've had with both,I now pledge my allegiance to God despite both lucifer and God both calling for me as the saying goes"I've made my bed so I must lie in it" for I know there are but two masters the serpent satan,and God the almighty,perhaps this is why I relate so well to an unbeliever,and speak unto you all so easily because I have experience in both areas of life,both evil and Love,anyways back to more questions to be answered if you so wish,I of course look forward to each one so continue to ask away,I'll be here when I can.

 

Are you actually grouping us ex-Christians into "the evil" because we are not with you in what you call "love"?

 

That's a false dichotomy. There are more than two ways of being.

 

There are actual satan worshippers, yes. There are evil and sadistic people, ohh yes. But it is possible to live without a supernatural master, and not be evil and sadistic but in fact experiencing a lot of love and respect for the fellow human and the wonders of nature.

 

I did not stop believing because satan called for me. I stopped believing in gods altogether and none have called for me since. Some weak moments have had me crying out to jesus, asking to be able to believe again. Nothing happened.