State of flux

[Mothernature]

Hello,

I've been browsing here for quite some time now. Thought I should say hi and introduce myself. I'm searching for the truth. I need proof and am quite frustrated that it's not clear cut black and white. I am still in the closet about my journey into agnosticism. This journey started when my husband announced that he was a literal believer in the Bible. He told me that he did not believe in medicine or doctors. These things alone scared me to death. I have never taken the Bible literally and to think that my husband, father of my children, believes such a thing shocked me to the core. Suddenly I am fearing for my children's lives. This has opened up a whole lot of questions for me. It is not something I ever would have dreamed remotely possible. It has shaken my core beliefs. It has changed my perception on religion, divorce, society, everything. How do I live with someone who believes such a thing? How do I protect my children from this nonsense? What if something happens to me and my children cannot receive the medical care they require? What if they are brainwashed into thinking like him? I truly believe he is brainwashed. He isolated himself and spent all his time reading Christian sites and listening to podcasts. All his solutions are in the Bible. He lives and breathes it. There is no changing that, no discussion and no persuasion. He has gained a superiority complex without realizing it. We are still together, but we are not the same anymore and I am grieving the loss of my marriage and life as I knew it. I am in a scary place. I fear for my children's future. I have many family related questions for any non-Christian that is/has raised children with an uncompromising Christian spouse.

I miss the peace I once had with Christianity but feel a different kind of freedom.

Mothernature

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Wow, that is a difficult place to be. How old are the kids? That will play a big part in how they see his change, as will your reaction to his new-found position. Be your real self and stand up to the lies and talk to your kids about it. Be honest with them about how your husband's god is an imaginary friend, and how daddy got tricked into thinking he's real. They are likely already scared of what they are seeing and you will be a voice of comfort and reason to give them a framework of reality. You probably need to plan a path out with an attorney.

 

I was for 30 years a hard-core on-fire believer, the last 9 years of which I spent believing whole heartedly that Jesus could raise the dead and do any miracle if one simply had faith. It took a genuine shock to get me to even start questioning (seeing the preacher I had been promoting on this path lying and making up long involved stories about healings and other miracles). But many times believers are taught to ignore such reality checks and dig in further. If he isn't stable mentally, he may see you as an agent of Satan, and a danger to the kids. This is why you need to start thinking now about how to protect them and yourself, and find an exit path. He might be willing to listen to reason, but typically a believer who has become fervent cannot hear anything to the contrary. It is sad, but often true. I've seen multiple believers go into a manic state where they pray for days without sleeping and end up having to spend time committed in a hospital after losing grip on reality. One was already prone to bipolar disorder, the others seemed to have a one-off experience, but the result was the same. Without medical intervention, they would have a mental breakdown and do some very dangerous things (one killed the family dog as a sacrifice).

 

Please get some help in this situation soon. A secular counselor at least, but likely an attorney for advice on how to protect the kids and yourself.

 

 

 

[Christy]

@Mothernature how long has your husband been like this? I'm guessing at one point he wasn't? What triggered him to jump over the edge into obsession? I'm so sorry. Do you have and non-believing family members or at least any unobsessed ones who could come to your aid should things get bad? The thing about Christianity is that when obsessed believers do things in the name of religion they loose sight of what is right and wrong in reality. Please be careful. My heart is with you. 

[Geezer]

When it comes to religion there is whacky & then there is dangerous. Unfortunately, it sounds like your husband has crossed the line that separates whacky from dangerous.

 

Attempting to have a rational discussion with a fully brainwashed person is pointless, because they are living in a different reality. If you are convinced your children are at risk then your only choice may be to seek legal assistance. 

 

I am sorry to learn of your difficult situation.

[padgemi]

Colossians 4:14

 

14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

 

In case anyone still literally believes this stuff.  You, on the other hand, can make it say whatever you want.  So now you have biblical authority to trust in your "beloved physician" and how dare anyone question Paul or the reported author of a gospel and Acts much less the King James translation.

 

Love to hear his response.

[MOHO]

@Mothernature,

 

If one or more of your offspring requires medical attention and your hubby attempts to prevent it please contact Child Protective Services immediately!

 

As far as attempting to have meaningful conversations with a scream'n fundy - @Geezer is correct. There is little value in this practice. Take from me, VP (using wife as example dept.) of the Unequally Yoked Club. My forehead is only now beginning to recover from being pounded against the wall as a result of having these types of conversations with Mrs. MOHO.

 

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

 

[Mothernature]

Thanks for the replies! It's nice to know that there is support. The situation is not as dire as it could be at this point. I just tend to think of the worst case scenarios and want to be prepared. My kids are young and my husband has not really changed his behaviour around them, other than making sure he mentions Jesus in all of his conversations with them.

 

@Fuego He has told me that he thinks he can heal people, wants to raise the dead, can speak in tongues and wants to prophesize. He has prayed over the kids before (which seemed very foreign to me at the time but I thought no harm done), but I don't think he has discussed these topics with them, which is good. I make sure to take them to the doctor and he has not stopped me from doing so. I have the support of my family and his, but even his parents are not able to convince him otherwise. My concern lies more with if something happens to me, then he is left in charge of the kids. His cop-out is that faith healing does not work if there are "unbelievers" around, and in that case he would seek medical attention for them. Apparently even Jesus could not heal in one village for this reason. I am not as versed in the Bible as many Christians so it's hard for me to defend my position when he spouts off his quotes. When he first told me of his new beliefs we discussed it a bit, but now I avoid the topic and we co-exist in raising the kids. He does seem pretty normal other than praising God in every sentence and I do believe he is stable so do not feel in danger at this time. I can just foresee the danger if his beliefs are passed on to the kids, so I will do whatever I can to ensure that doesn't happen. Just not sure how to do that nicely and how to sound as authoritative as him. It would be good to speak to an attorney to see what my options are, but again it's how to go about doing it. Do I just outright tell him what I"m doing? I'm not sure I'm strong enough to stand up to him that way yet.

 

@Christy He just changed over the past year. He claims it just hit him and he started reading the Bible and passages leaped out at him and he was able to connect the various Gospels together for a better understanding of the Holy Spirit. He was lead by the spirit...that and the propaganda of Andrew Womack. I see him as the demise of my family. My husband believes illness comes from evil spirits and that giants existed. Funny enough he does believe in evolution in general and does not believe in the timeline that earth creationists (?) do and his explanation is just that we don't know God's timeline. I grew very distant from him once he told me these things and he toned it down a bit, I guess to save our marriage, but these new core beliefs are still there and I'm always on guard as to what he says with the kids around. My family and my friends will definitely support me so that is good. I haven't come out and told the kids that I don't believe in Jesus as they are young and I would not be able to explain why at this time. They are too young to understand. I don' t want to say that their father is wrong b/c he is good with them and I want them to have a good relationship, so I don't want to create that doubt in them. However, I do want them to be open to other possibilities and to know that the choice is theirs.
 

@Geezer My husband is definitely wacky, I'll give him that. I have played out many scenarios but I do not think he is dangerous in the physical sense. I'm trying to figure out how to make the kids see that he is wacky so they do not follow his beliefs. Currently with them, he reads them Bible stories, says grace before meals, prayers at bedtime, goes to church regularly and will say things about how great God/Jesus is. When I do the bedtime routine I don't do those things anymore. Is that enough of a sign to the kids to place some doubt in them? Is that enough for them to figure out subtly that Mommy has a different opinion so that they question things? He is such a good storyteller though that they become enthralled by him. He's the fun one. He's good at exaggerating stories and speaks with confidence so I don't think they'd doubt what he says. That's a problem for me.

 

@padgemi He claims that the physicians referred to in the Bible did not use medications/drugs (those are from the devil). The physicians they write about would pray over people, lay hands on them and take them to the church elders to be prayed over. If there are references of medicines or other, then please send them to me, as I cannot quote the Bible well (I was not raised as a Christian). I am so mad whenever I think of this! It is just absolutely, completely ridiculous that someone today could think that the way society worked 2000 years ago is the same way it should be today. It is utterly insane. And this is what drives me away from my husband. How can I be raising my kids with someone so stupid. And yet I know he's not stupid. He's actually quite smart, which is why I think he's brainwashed and I don't know if there's a way to bring him back. If I get the nerve to confront him about medicine again, I will let you know what he says. For me, it's better to avoid the whole topic with him right now. I take my kids and myself for treatment when needed and leave him to his own healing.Sometimes I wish he would get sick so that he realizes his mistake, but he is quite healthy so it's hard to debate that.

 

@MOHO , yes I will take that advice, believe me. I am actually in the medical profession so I have strong feelings about that. Nice to know that my husband believes what I do is completely and utterly useless! Ha! I have read many of your posts and hope to get some insight from you on having a spouse with opposing views. You have children, correct? How have you managed in their upbringing? Have you been able to expose them to your views or contrasting views from Christianity and if so, how do they respond? I hate the feeling that my kids might think I'd go to hell and be separated from them and what that would put them through. That is preventing me from full deconversion still. Eternity is a big risk to take and I know there is a lot of talk on this board about it, so that is good. I'll keep reading.

Thanks for listening to my venting. It feels much better to get it out there. I appreciate everyone's input and hope with your help I can become more empowered to deal with my situation.

 

[MOHO]

45 minutes ago, Mothernature said:

@MOHO , yes I will take that advice, believe me. I am actually in the medical profession so I have strong feelings about that. Nice to know that my husband believes what I do is completely and utterly useless! Ha! I have read many of your posts and hope to get some insight from you on having a spouse with opposing views. You have children, correct? How have you managed in their upbringing? Have you been able to expose them to your views or contrasting views from Christianity and if so, how do they respond? I hate the feeling that my kids might think I'd go to hell and be separated from them and what that would put them through. That is preventing me from full deconversion still. Eternity is a big risk to take and I know there is a lot of talk on this board about it, so that is good. I'll keep reading.

 

@Mothernature,

 

I have no children of my own but have 3 beautiful grand daughters and one great-granddaughter. 

This was accomplished via E-Baby.        Just fool'n.

 

Mrs. MOHO has 10 years on me and an adult son from a previous marriage. All three of the young lovelies came along during the MOHO administration so I stepped up to the plate.

 

Even though she, and her son, are absolute wack-job fundamentalists they both LOVE medical professionals and both visit multiple doctors each year. Their connection to funny-mentalism is a very strong survivalist instinct. ( My conclusion from years of observing them.)

 

I have watched their progression (most pronounced in Mrs. MOHO) over the past few years and the effects of the indoctrination are staggering.

[padgemi]

I'm sure all the physicians of Ancient Greece and Rome layed on hands and prayed, as was proper technique back then.

 

Not that it will do any good, but how 'bout:

Proverbs 17:22

A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

 

I realize he will just say "back then they used "natural" products like hyssop oil instead of "evil" chemicals like acetaminophen, lithium carbonate, or purified hydrogen dioxide."

 

"Luke" didn't use pills.  Evil.  

"Luke" didn't drive automobiles. Evil.  

"Luke" didn't have St. Jude's. Evil.  

"Luke" didn't eat cornbread. Evil.  

"Luke" didn't have fluoride in his water.  You know you really should be getting your H20 from the river.  Just mix in a little holy medicine (wine).  But alas, today's wine ain't the same as ancient wine.  Got any 0003 AD vintage on hand?

 

[padgemi]

@Mothernature

 

"For me, it's better to avoid the whole topic with him right now. I take my kids and myself for treatment when needed and leave him to his own healing."

 

I think this is very wise as long as he allows this.

 

"Sometimes I wish he would get sick so that he realizes his mistake, but he is quite healthy so it's hard to debate that."

 

I was very healthy for the first 30 years of my life.  I listened to the herbal guys on the radio and had a general distrust for big pharma. Then I found myself in a mental hospital 6 years ago.  My "faith" was on overdrive.  I was going to walk right out of there undeterred.  I remember locked steel doors.  I remember handcuffs and excessive force.  Turns out taking the meds was more effective than prayer or the laying on of police hands in getting me the heck outta there.  Once out, I had a somewhat reduced confidence in the mustard seeds and believed continuing to take the meds may be the most reliable way of staying the heck outta there.  Still working after 6 years and having abandoned the believing, praying and hand laying over 3 years ago.

 

Dear Evil Lithium, 

Thank you for blessing me with continued sanity!  In a way, you and some other friends helped me unsee the "light".