bornagainathiest Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 18 hours ago, end3 said: If we were identical, we could legislate morality and everyone would be happy. You do notice the state of affairs around the world and in the US, right? The health care issue, the welfare issue, the immigration issue, the race issue. When we sit down with these people, actually getting to know them, then we more understand their needs and position and them ours. Really not my fault you can't make the association, but I'll pray... End, The association you say that Citsonga can't make is based on your faith, isn't it? Just like your claim that humans are unique, right? Thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 1 hour ago, bornagainathiest said: End, The association you say that Citsonga can't make is based on your faith, isn't it? Just like your claim that humans are unique, right? Thought so. Science adequately demonstrates humans are unique. Yes, Christianity is by faith, but no, I think anyone can make the association. Was merely asserting that uniqueness "demands" we know each other to better address the individual.....kind of like the new approach to treating cancer. There are people here with pain, triggers, etc., I get that, that aren't ready to look at it. No biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 3 hours ago, bornagainathiest said: End, The association you say that Citsonga can't make is based on your faith, isn't it? Just like your claim that humans are unique, right? Thought so. Science adequately demonstrates humans are unique. Yes, Christianity is by faith, but no, I think anyone can make the association. Was merely asserting that uniqueness "demands" we know each other to better address the individual.....kind of like the new approach to treating cancer. There are people here with pain, triggers, etc., I get that, that aren't ready to look at it. No biggie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What science, End? Please cite your source for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Posted 16 hours ago 18 hours ago, bornagainathiest said: End, The association you say that Citsonga can't make is based on your faith, isn't it? Just like your claim that humans are unique, right? Thought so. End3 replied... Science adequately demonstrates humans are unique. Yes, Christianity is by faith, but no, I think anyone can make the association. Was merely asserting that uniqueness "demands" we know each other to better address the individual.....kind of like the new approach to treating cancer. There are people here with pain, triggers, etc., I get that, that aren't ready to look at it. No biggie. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End, I've taken the time to re-read our recent posts because I want to be sure that I do the right thing by them. Therefore, please put my request for you to present evidence for your claim on hold. It can wait. If we take your claim (that science adequately demonstrates human are unique) as... 'accepted for the time being', you can present your evidence to support this claim, later on. Ok? Assuming you're cool with that, I've broken down what I think you're saying into these steps. 1. You'd like Citsonga to make the same association you're making. 2 . You accept the science data human for uniqueness as true. 3. You accept what the Bible says as true. 4. You have no problem associating the science with the Bible, because you accept both as true. 5. To make that same association Citsonga would also have to accept the science and the Bible as true. 6. As an Ex-Christian Citsonga he might accept the science as true. 7. As an Ex-Christian Citsonga he probably won't accept the Bible as true. Do you see the problem? You are asking Cits to accept two different things, using two different standards. You are asking him to accept the science using his reason and to accept the Bible using his faith. He can see the evidence when you present it but he cannot see what you believe by your faith. Therefore, he can't make the leap of faith you have and associate science with the Bible. Thanks, BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 9, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 If End3 and Citsonga make the same association, wouldn't that speak against the notion of uniqueness? "Y'all are unique, so y'all should see it my way!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: If End3 and Citsonga make the same association, wouldn't that speak against the notion of uniqueness? "Y'all are unique, so y'all should see it my way!" One of many thoughts I have about this statement is this: I don't think we do share the exact same notion, which speaks to the myriad of interpretations we do have. I do then see faith entering the picture, and the idea of intimacy, marriage, etc. as an important pieces of the mechanism to FIND a more unified position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 9, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 I've lost the sense of this argument. Unique? Not unique? So what? To the devout (brainwashed?) Christian everything points to him being right. To the Muslim everything points to him being right. To the Scientologist everything points to him being right. I must conclude, WTF? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, florduh said: I've lost the sense of this argument. Unique? Not unique? So what? To the devout (brainwashed?) Christian everything points to him being right. To the Muslim everything points to him being right. To the Scientologist everything points to him being right. I must conclude, WTF? Exactly. A Muslim could use the same so-called logic as End3 and argue, "People are different, which points to Islam. Checkmate, infidels!" I'm sure that End3 would quickly recognize that such a leap is utter nonsense in that case, yet he evidently fails to see that it's equally ridiculous in his version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Citsonga, Muslim DO use exactly the same logic as Christians and they also use the same examples as Christians to point to Allah. http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_01.html Which then raises the awkward question... how can the origin of the universe simultaneously point to Jesus AND Allah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 48 minutes ago, florduh said: I've lost the sense of this argument. Unique? Not unique? So what? To the devout (brainwashed?) Christian everything points to him being right. To the Muslim everything points to him being right. To the Scientologist everything points to him being right. I must conclude, WTF? I'm just making the assertion that our uniqueness points to the Christian message in a bunch of ways. And, it matches the science. And it matches with our world condition. You would like more corroboration? I'm really questioning the majority of you, your capacity to see the bigger picture.....which leads me to a wtf response myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, bornagainathiest said: Citsonga, Muslim DO use exactly the same logic as Christians and they also use the same examples as Christians to point to Allah. http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_01.html Which then raises the awkward question... how can the origin of the universe simultaneously point to Jesus AND Allah? Yeah, I'm aware of that. However, I've never seen anyone of any faith make the specific illogical leap that End3 has asserted in this thread, which is why I framed my previous post as a hypothetical situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just now, end3 said: I'm just making the assertion that our uniqueness points to the Christian message in a bunch of ways. And, it matches the science. And it matches with our world condition. You would like more corroboration? I'm really questioning the majority of you, your capacity to see the bigger picture.....which leads me to a wtf response myself. We can't see the bigger picture if doing that requires faith, End. But we might see the bigger picture if you presented your evidence for it. How about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, bornagainathiest said: We can't see the bigger picture if doing that requires faith, End. But we might see the bigger picture if you presented your evidence for it. How about it? Dude, there are billions of oxygen and nitrogen atoms crashing against my body daily, resulting in billions of undetermined changes, and you want to argue evidence? And the electrons....can't even know where they are at....lol. Let's just go with faith that science has this one well in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, end3 said: Dude, there are billions of oxygen and nitrogen atoms crashing against my body daily, resulting in billions of undetermined changes, and you want to argue evidence? And the electrons....can't even know where they are at....lol. Let's just go with faith that science has this one well in hand. No. Science doesn't proceed by faith. Science argues evidence. Where there is no evidence there is no science. Your evidence please, End. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Citsonga said: Yeah, I'm aware of that. However, I've never seen anyone of any faith make the specific illogical leap that End3 has asserted in this thread, which is why I framed my previous post as a hypothetical situation. Meaning no disrespect to End, in my opinion he's a highly-emotional and not-very-logical person. To him if it feels right he makes the leap of faith. He doesn't reason - he feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, bornagainathiest said: Meaning no disrespect to End, in my opinion he's a highly-emotional and not-very-logical person. To him if it feels right he makes the leap of faith. He doesn't reason - he feels. I'm not going to argue with you about our bodies BAA. We are a walking set of reactions, an organism by scientific definition. And you would like me to demonstrate certainty? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 40 minutes ago, end3 said: I'm just making the assertion that our uniqueness points to the Christian message in a bunch of ways. And, it matches the science. And it matches with our world condition. You would like more corroboration? I'm really questioning the majority of you, your capacity to see the bigger picture.....which leads me to a wtf response myself. Mr. Non-Sequitur speaks in his typical passive-aggressive fashion. Not worth the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 44 minutes ago, Citsonga said: Yeah, I'm aware of that. However, I've never seen anyone of any faith make the specific illogical leap that End3 has asserted in this thread, which is why I framed my previous post as a hypothetical situation. End3 is unique when it comes to using irrational thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2017 On 05/10/2017 at 1:43 PM, midniterider said: As a pantheist I have to agree that we are all God. Everyone and everything is God. It's more than a coincidence that Jesus speaks like a pantheist. Or my own naturalist version which takes parts of what Neil Degrasse Tyson has said and create my own version: When we go back far enough in time we find that we are not just connected to all living things, but to all matter in the universe. Atomically we share the same elements that are forged in the stars. Maybe we aren't as unique as we think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: Mr. Non-Sequitur speaks in his typical passive-aggressive fashion. Not worth the time. Was hoping I didn't have to spell it out in an aggressive moment. Trying to temper "you can't pour it out of a boot" with nice. I gathering you define that passive aggressive... Make your case already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 hour ago, end3 said: I'm not going to argue with you about our bodies BAA. We are a walking set of reactions, an organism by scientific definition. And you would like me to demonstrate certainty? Really? No, End. Not certainty. The only branch of the sciences that demonstrates certainty is math. All the other branches cite evidence. You've just asked sdelsolray to make his case. If he were to humor you he'd do so by citing evidence. When other members ask me to make my case about something, I do so by citing evidence. And this is exactly what I'm asking you for. Evidence cited from reputable, accredited and authenticated sources. Do you have any such evidence to support your claim that humans are unique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 10, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 hours ago, end3 said: One of many thoughts I have about this statement is this: I don't think we do share the exact same notion, which speaks to the myriad of interpretations we do have. I do then see faith entering the picture, and the idea of intimacy, marriage, etc. as an important pieces of the mechanism to FIND a more unified position. So we started out as absolute, but not absolutely absolute. Now we are unique, but not uniquely unique. I must concur with florduh's assessment. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: So we started out as absolute, but not absolutely absolute. Now we are unique, but not uniquely unique. I must concur with florduh's assessment. WTF? How can there be a uniquely unique? We don't share the same notions. How many countless times have I heard it whined here about the many interpretations of the Bible, the many denominations. The idea would to BE or BECOME ONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 10, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2017 A long time ago I believe Professor Irwin Corey covered this topic rather thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Couldn't make it past the first 20 seconds....above my head, but thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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