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Uniqueness Points Towards Christianity

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20 hours ago, end3 said:

I'm just making the assertion that our uniqueness points to the Christian message in a bunch of ways.  And, it matches the science.  And it matches with our world condition.  You would like more corroboration?  I'm really questioning the majority of you, your capacity to see the bigger picture.....which leads me to a wtf response myself. 

 

Has End3 explained precisely how the Christian message matches science? Or the world condition? 

 

Does Jesus provide a theory of cosmology or particle physics? Are any scientific theories covered in the bible? What inventions from the bible have we used?

 

What is the Christian message?

 

Why would uniqueness point to it?

 

The OP is a non-sequitur fallacy. "We are unique and that means Jesus!" But when you're a Christian everything points to Jesus, does it not? Funny how when we stop believing in Jesus, things stop pointing to Jesus. Wouldn't something continue pointing to Jesus if He were real? Electrons orbit nuclei regardless of our belief in Jesus. Nothing really points to Jesus but our wish for it to do so. End's confirmation bias points to Jesus.

 

As a Christian I would have wholeheartedly agreed that [Whatever bullshit someone presents] points to Jesus. But as an Ex-c I realize that Christians need to constantly manually reinforce in their own mind that Jesus is real. If they did not do this reinforcing then their faith would naturally deteriorate. Why would their faith deteriorate? Because it is false and therefore has no power to continue on its own. Jesus does not power End3. End3 powers Jesus by talking about him. Hence, this thread's existence.

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21 hours ago, end3 said:

I'm not going to argue with you about our bodies BAA.  We are a walking set of reactions, an organism by scientific definition.  And you would like me to demonstrate certainty?  Really?

 

Still waiting on you to present your evidence for the uniqueness of human beings, End.

 

Until you present it, this thread is going nowhere.

 

holding-pattern.jpg?w=600&h=372&crop=1

 

 

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On 10/9/2017 at 1:54 PM, end3 said:

I'm just making the assertion that our uniqueness points to the Christian message in a bunch of ways.  And, it matches the science.  And it matches with our world condition.  You would like more corroboration?  I'm really questioning the majority of you, your capacity to see the bigger picture.....which leads me to a wtf response myself. 

 

People are all different in some ways, but as humans we share more characteristics than we differ on. There is nothing there that points to Xtianity, though. Unless you mean that Xtianity breeds tolerance, but that isn't true for fundamentalist Xtians at all---quite the opposite.

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How can something be uniquely unique?  How can we be unique when everybody is unique.  Uniqueness is, itself, something that is very common and ordinary. Something that everybody has.  It is a contradiction in terms, much like the love of god.  In that regard, I suppose our un-unique uniqueness points to christianity.  But that is surely the point.  We are not unique; precisely because we are unique.  There was a time when having piercings and tattoos made a person unique.  Now everybody has them.  To have a tattoo or a piercing is no longer unique.  Neither is being unique.  Sorry, End3, but even if you prove that we are all unique, as BAA has cordially invited you to do several times, you'd still only get so far as to demonstrate that we are rather plain and garden variety in our uniqueness.  And you still would not have pointed to christianity.

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End,

 

See anything wrong with these?

 

The scientist wanted his colleagues to accept his theory without presenting any evidence to them.

The defense counsel wanted the jury to acquit his client without showing them any evidence.

The doctor wanted his patient to agree to invasive surgery without sharing the evidence (diagnosis) with him.

The historian wanted his fellow scholars to accept that Shakespeare was French, without showing them any evidence for this.

A member of this forum wants his fellow members to accept his argument without presenting any evidence for it.

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Define absolute.  How are you using that word for the purposes of this discussion?  "Uniqueness is a form of absolute"  -- I don't quite follow.  

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End, 

 

Even if we, for argument's sake, take your claims at face value; that we are all unique, and the Bible teaches something which correlates with that...

 

It STILL says nothing about the veracity of the Bible as a whole. For 1. It could be just as easily speculated that human authors with no divine authority are the source of that correlation and 2. Much like history and archaeology, the fact that the Bible correctly records these things in some cases, does not mean that ALL claims in the Bible are true. 

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On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:26 PM, ToddJ said:

Define absolute.  How are you using that word for the purposes of this discussion?  "Uniqueness is a form of absolute"  -- I don't quite follow.  

 

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:26 PM, ToddJ said:

Define absolute.  How are you using that word for the purposes of this discussion?  "Uniqueness is a form of absolute"  -- I don't quite follow.  

We would be assuming that God is absolute....and that if we are creations of God, then essentially we would be a form of that absolute.  Please remember where Psalms and Hebrews says we are man/Christ was created a little lower than the angels.....diminished on purpose.

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44 minutes ago, LimitedGrip said:

End, 

 

Even if we, for argument's sake, take your claims at face value; that we are all unique, and the Bible teaches something which correlates with that...

 

It STILL says nothing about the veracity of the Bible as a whole. For 1. It could be just as easily speculated that human authors with no divine authority are the source of that correlation and 2. Much like history and archaeology, the fact that the Bible correctly records these things in some cases, does not mean that ALL claims in the Bible are true. 

I agree.  It's just an observation.  As I stated before, I find it interesting that the Bible seemingly defends the argument.

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5 minutes ago, end3 said:

I agree.  It's just an observation.  As I stated before, I find it interesting that the Bible seemingly defends the argument.

 

In which case, your entire argument is anecdotal in nature, rather than logical, and renders your "checkmate"  claim rather vapid.

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1 hour ago, LimitedGrip said:

 

In which case, your entire argument is anecdotal in nature, rather than logical, and renders your "checkmate"  claim rather vapid.

What evidence do you need.  The entire globe is at each others throat because our egos refuse to know one another....much like your statement with me.  If you knew me, you would understand there is a population here that I tease.....i.e. old friends.   And LG, if you were somewhat hooked up, you would understand that science can't yet connect the dots, making everything logical.  But vapid sounds impressive...  

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Just now, end3 said:

What evidence do you need.  The entire globe is at each others throat because our egos refuse to know one another....much like your statement with me.  If you knew me, you would understand there is a population here that I tease.....i.e. old friends.   And LG, if you were somewhat hooked up, you would understand that science can't yet connect the dots, making everything logical.  But vapid sounds important....  

 

Anecdotes are not evidence. I meant no offense; I simply think that your argument holds little value; that it is a non-sequitur, from which no conclusions can be made. 

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42 minutes ago, LimitedGrip said:

 

Anecdotes are not evidence. I meant no offense; I simply think that your argument holds little value; that it is a non-sequitur, from which no conclusions can be made. 

Just saying, if we were the same, would there be a need to know one another in order to get along.   I am relating this to the Bible where it says that we first know Christ as Christ knew God and then know each other the same.   The more modern version is someone we would consider a friend.  We typically know our friends, agree on many things, and are more likely to treat each other the way we would want to be treated.   Again, if we were the same, there would be no need for the Biblical message.

 

With regard to proof, I'm not sure we will ever get there.......i.e. this chemistry X, this physics Y, this environment Z leads to this brain pattern that defines this belief, this behavior.  There's not a computer big enough.  We subscribe to "God" for this.  Please note in the thread, and almost every thread, that this group wants the chemistry, physics, environment type proof.  It ain't gonna happen in our lifetime and never will. 

 

Edit:  Anecdotal evidence.....thank you.  I think my anecdote is very typical.....

 

 

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5 hours ago, end3 said:

Just saying, if we were the same, would there be a need to know one another in order to get along.   I am relating this to the Bible where it says that we first know Christ as Christ knew God and then know each other the same.   The more modern version is someone we would consider a friend. 

...

 

The concept of friend, acquaintance, kin, associate, member, etc., significantly predates your protestation that such relationships originate and is solely sourced to your sky fairy.  You obviously believe otherwise.  That's somewhat unfortunate for you. i.e., it simply demonstrates your addiction to particular religious dogma.

5 hours ago, end3 said:

...

The more modern version is someone we would consider a friend.  We typically know our friends, agree on many things, and are more likely to treat each other the way we would want to be treated.   Again, if we were the same, there would be no need for the Biblical message.

...

The opposite of "unique" is not "identical".  Your assumption is an obvious thinking error.

 

You apparently believe you "need" the "Biblical message".  Of course, you have yet to identify this "message".

5 hours ago, end3 said:

...

With regard to proof, I'm not sure we will ever get there.......i.e. this chemistry X, this physics Y, this environment Z leads to this brain pattern that defines this belief, this behavior.  There's not a computer big enough. 

...

 

Will you ever learn?  It's evidence and argument, not proof.  You are simply not a rational thinker.  Your brain is wired in different fashion, and you limbic system has control of your frontal cortex.  That's perfectly fine, and it's no big deal.  However, don't expect others to travel with you down your rabbit hole of anecdotal observation, non-sequitur claims and subjective and emotional declarative statements.

5 hours ago, end3 said:

...

We subscribe to "God" for this. 

...

Speak for yourself, not others.

5 hours ago, end3 said:

...

Please note in the thread, and almost every thread, that this group wants the chemistry, physics, environment type proof.  It ain't gonna happen in our lifetime and never will.

...

It's truly sad to see the shallownees, emptiness and paucity of your ability to perceive.

 

Put more simply...you lie.

 

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39 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

The concept of friend, acquaintance, kin, associate, member, etc., significantly predates your protestation that such relationships originate and is solely sourced to your sky fairy.  You obviously believe otherwise.  That's somewhat unfortunate for you. i.e., it simply demonstrates your addiction to particular religious dogma.

The opposite of "unique" is not "identical".  Your assumption is an obvious thinking error.

 

You apparently believe you "need" the "Biblical message".  Of course, you have yet to identify this "message".

Will you ever learn?  It's evidence and argument, not proof.  You are simply not a rational thinker.  Your brain is wired in different fashion, and you limbic system has control of your frontal cortex.  That's perfectly fine, and it's no big deal.  However, don't expect others to travel with you down your rabbit hole of anecdotal observation, non-sequitur claims and subjective and emotional declarative statements.

Speak for yourself, not others.

It's truly sad to see the shallownees, emptiness and paucity of your ability to perceive.

 

Put more simply...you lie.

 

Appears you have been drinking....

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S,

 

I think it was you that brought up identical in the first place.  Reasonably sure I never asserted identical. 

 

The "message"  I'm referring to is John 17:21-23.

 

Truth of the matter S, anecdotal evidence can suggest science has a problem. 

 

I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness.   But I'm the stupid one you compared my poor thinking to some philosopher...

 

paucity...lol.  Jackass.

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On 10/23/2017 at 10:06 PM, end3 said:

What evidence do you need.  The entire globe is at each others throat because our egos refuse to know one another....much like your statement with me.  If you knew me, you would understand there is a population here that I tease.....i.e. old friends.   And LG, if you were somewhat hooked up, you would understand that science can't yet connect the dots, making everything logical.  But vapid sounds impressive...  

 

This is curious, End.

 

I asked you many times for evidence to support your assertion that uniqueness point towards Christianity and you didn't give it.

Then, when LimitedGrip points out that an anecdote isn't evidence, you ask him... what evidence do you need?

Then, in the very next sentence you cite a body of evidence about the entire global population.

 

So, which is it? 

 

Is evidence needed or not?

 

Or perhaps you know that everyone is at each others throats by faith and not by evidence?

 

:shrug:

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On 10/23/2017 at 10:31 PM, end3 said:

Just saying, if we were the same, would there be a need to know one another in order to get along.   I am relating this to the Bible where it says that we first know Christ as Christ knew God and then know each other the same.   The more modern version is someone we would consider a friend.  We typically know our friends, agree on many things, and are more likely to treat each other the way we would want to be treated.   Again, if we were the same, there would be no need for the Biblical message.

 

With regard to proof, I'm not sure we will ever get there.......i.e. this chemistry X, this physics Y, this environment Z leads to this brain pattern that defines this belief, this behavior.  There's not a computer big enough.  We subscribe to "God" for this.  Please note in the thread, and almost every thread, that this group wants the chemistry, physics, environment type proof.  It ain't gonna happen in our lifetime and never will. 

 

For the umpteeenth time I must remind you End, that the only branch of the sciences that deals with proof is math. 

Chemistry, physics and all the other branches do not supply proof of anything - they simply provide the best explanations of the observed phenomenon, according to the current evidence.  Also, Limitedgrip didn't mention proof, but you introduced that concept as if he had.  So you were putting words into his mouth. 

 

On 10/23/2017 at 10:31 PM, end3 said:

Edit:  Anecdotal evidence.....thank you.  I think my anecdote is very typical.....

 

 

 

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On 10/24/2017 at 5:50 AM, end3 said:

S,

 

I think it was you that brought up identical in the first place.  Reasonably sure I never asserted identical. 

 

The "message"  I'm referring to is John 17:21-23.

 

Truth of the matter S, anecdotal evidence can suggest science has a problem. 

 

I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness.   But I'm the stupid one you compared my poor thinking to some philosopher...

 

paucity...lol.  Jackass.

 

"I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

If you had been born in Saudi Arabia End, you'd have written...

 

"I'm not addicted to Islam, but the Quran sure points time and time again to what we witness. "

 

 

 

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On 10/23/2017 at 2:06 PM, end3 said:

What evidence do you need.  The entire globe is at each others throat because our egos refuse to know one another....much like your statement with me.  If you knew me, you would understand there is a population here that I tease.....i.e. old friends.   And LG, if you were somewhat hooked up, you would understand that science can't yet connect the dots, making everything logical.  But vapid sounds impressive...  

 

I'd also like to point out that your anecdote does not work as evidence because uniqueness is ALSO consistent with humanism/naturalism. Your observation makes no distinction between the two. 

 

It's like saying that you found a dead animal in Africa, and concluded that it must have been killed by a polar bear because the wounds were consistent with sharp teeth, and powerful bites. 

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11 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

 

"I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

If you had been born in Saudi Arabia End, you'd have written...

 

"I'm not addicted to Islam, but the Quran sure points time and time again to what we witness. "

 

 

 

Aware of your last three posts BAA.  Thanks,  these are just observations. 

 

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9 hours ago, LimitedGrip said:

 

I'd also like to point out that your anecdote does not work as evidence because uniqueness is ALSO consistent with humanism/naturalism. Your observation makes no distinction between the two. 

 

It's like saying that you found a dead animal in Africa, and concluded that it must have been killed by a polar bear because the wounds were consistent with sharp teeth, and powerful bites. 

Just an observation LG.....take it or leave it...no biggie.

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On 10/23/2017 at 9:50 PM, end3 said:

I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness.   But I'm the stupid one you compared my poor thinking to some philosopher...

 

 

 

Could you say, "I don't believe in Jesus?"

 

 

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On 24/10/2017 at 5:50 PM, end3 said:

I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness.   But I'm the stupid one you compared my poor thinking to some philosopher...

End, what do you mean the book points time and time again to what we witness? Are you meaning in some metaphysical sense or natural sense?

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  12 hours ago, bornagainathiest said:

 

"I'm not addicted to Christianity, but the book sure points time and time again to what we witness. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

If you had been born in Saudi Arabia End, you'd have written...

 

"I'm not addicted to Islam, but the Quran sure points time and time again to what we witness. "

 

 

 

Aware of your last three posts BAA.  Thanks,  these are just observations. 

.

.

.

You're aware of my last three posts... but you're unaware that only math uses proofs.

 

These are just your observations... but you've never observed any posts where we've explained to you that only math uses proofs.

 

Really?

 

:Hmm:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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