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Goodbye Jesus

Nearly always been an atheist, but...


Shintoga

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Hi, all :) I've been lurking for maybe a couple of weeks now but thought I'd finally make an 'honest' forum member of myself!

I'm 34 and like it says in the title, nearly always been an atheist. My religious upbringing actually seems kind of strange and patchy, when I think back on it. My parents are CofE (I think... all these different denominations and sects confuse me), though they never talk about religion at home, and only go to church on rare occasions. They did go most weeks when I was younger, but didn't always take me - I guess I was maybe too fractious as a child who found it boring and I do remember looking for distractions during sermons and hymns. I never sang hymns. The only one I really like now is Jerusalem, but I don't interpret the lyrics as being religious anyway.

 

My nana gave me a lot of grief for not believing as a teenager, which I didn't understand or feel was warranted at the time and I still mildly resent what happened even now. I was just your average teenager struggling with school (I had virtually no friends and was always the 'freak' - I got diagnosed with Asperger's at 17. I didn't find that out for about another 10 years though, so while I know I didn't deserve the horrible treatment I got at school, I finally got at least a partial explanation for why I hadn't fitted in), but the way she tried to guilt me when she visited on Sundays, you'd think I'd just come out of prison for stealing the crown jewels. It didn't tally with my naive impressions of what Christians were supposed to act like - kind, compassionate, forgiving, understanding etc. and just drove me even further away from wanting to embrace religion. My early, and incredibly superficial beliefs had already long been shaken off by then. I mostly found it annoying but just hoped nothing unpleasant would happen to me, like getting tied to an altar and being prayed over or forced to go to church on pain of death.

I wasn't living in fear of that happening, but I also didn't completely trust anyone around me who was religious.

 

Fast forward to me in college, and discovering the pagan religions, purely by chance. I did a lot of 'research' into them, particularly druids. I never ended up practicing in any, even though a lot of their values seemed to align better with mine than what I'd seen of Christianity - and I knew nature was a real thing, unlike God or Jesus (I do think Jesus existed, just not as as the Bible describes him).

My mum freaked out a bit when she found out, and rather ironically called paganism a brainwashing cult  and even summoned the local vicar to give me a personal sermon thingy. I felt like I was being exorcised lol. I didn't get the logic of it, either - since they hadn't made any real effort to raise me as a Christian, I just assumed I was free to make my own decisions about my beliefs by then. I guess I was wrong. 

There was talk about getting me confirmed around that time, just a mention now and again, never a proper sit down and talk about it conversation, so I just hoped it would eventually get forgotten about. Eventually we did talk about it but I refused to go along with it and it didn't happen. Apparently that means I can't get buried or something? Really, because I don't have a piece of paper or whatever it is they give you for it? I mean, I do prefer the idea of being buried, but if that's the case then they can just burn me. I'm not really gonna care by that stage :P 

I sometimes amuse myself by thinking about my favourite contradictions and stuff that doesn't make any sense, because so much of it is laughable anyway.

 

Which parts of the Bible are we meant to take seriously, which are allegorical and why do they keep getting changed?

How can you tell if a dream was sent by God, Satan or if it's just a dream? Similarly for 'visions' - I was always annoyed when they were dismissed as hallucinations unless they were experienced by a Christian, but then again, there was the additional problem of whether they were inspired by God or Satan, with literally no way of distinguishing between the two possibilities.

If humans aren't animals, what are we exactly? 

The aftermath of the flood... and the ark being impossible in the first place. That's one I find really fun to think about - and debunk. That and flat earth - pretty sure if you experimented with shining a torch (the sun) on a disc (flat earth) you'd notice the model doesn't really line up with what we experience, never mind what we know from science. I haven't tried that for myself, but the inner scientist in me kinda wants to.

 

 

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Welcome Shintoga

 

Good to have you along. Well it looks like I don't need to dish out some helpful words to help you deconvert - looks like you are very apt at working through the BS of religion.

 

I understand you having challengers at school with having Aspergers. I have a friend who has aspergers, and he faced the same thing at school. His younger brothers protected him a lot which helped.

 

Hope to see your thoughts on various topics around the forum.

 

Regards

 

LF

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Thanks, LogicalFallacy ^_^ I've spent all my time up to now reading the Things Fundies Say on Facebook thread. Some real eye openers there! But I see I share a similar sense of humour with certain members so I'm sure I'll enjoy it here :)

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Welcome! :D I always look forward to content from new members, there is always potential for a really fresh perspective. :) I look forward to seeing more of this dry wit, I'm loving it so far!

 

 

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Nice to have you aboard. Thanks for sharing your story.

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The Bible is an excellent book, if you enjoy reading poorly written fiction that is confusing & contradictory. In the end the hero gets killed, but he comes back to life,....so there is that for folks that like happy endings.  <_<

 

Oh yeah, welcome aboard. I note your parents were/are C of E. I was c of c but I know folks who are COGIC, but there is just COG folk too. Then there is the LDS crowd too & SBC & the UMC.  (That's a Church not the United States Marine Corps). 

 

Any others anyone would would like to contribute? 

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Thanks very much for the warm welcome, guys! That reminds me of a church sign me and a friend came across a few years ago - it said the church welcomes you and the word 'Welcome' was on fire. Not sure what that was supposed to mean? Maybe they were trying to be more upfront about the hellfire thing but in a subtle way? I don't know!

Thanks as well, @Geezer , I remember we used to have Holy communion at the end of our services and did vaguely think that was something to do with C of E (even if it's not unique to that sect). I always wondered what the church thought of vampirism and cannibalism when I was taking the 'flesh of Christ' (I was too young for the blood though :P).

I have a really old Bible which I bought off eBay recently, purely for looking stuff up to help debunk arguments. The 'original' has a lot of loopholes and the main protagonist is so awful it's kind of impressive, but it's the fanfiction that really gets me scratching my head. I got the oldest one I could afford, around 113 years old, as I like old books in general. I'd also like to get one of the really fancy family Bibles one day.

I prefer my heroes to stay dead on the whole, but I do make an exception for Deadpool :D 

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There is actually some good prose in the bible from a literature  stand point. I quite enjoy some of it - I'll read it and think what educated writer wrote this, what was he thinking at the time. The clear style of some the letters in the NT shows these weren't just simple people writing simple exhortations - these people knew how to write well, which for the day was saying something. Half our high school grads these days can barely concoct a paragraph, let alone write a decent letter.

 

Take this portion from Jude rich it metaphor:

 

11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

 

Or Job with some fine poetry:

 

7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:

8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.

9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?

10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

 

Ironically I appreciate the bible now as a book more than I did when I was a christian. 

 

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6 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

There is actually some good prose in the bible from a literally stand point.

 

I think you meant from a literary stand point?  Unfortunately far too many christians can only see the bible from a literal stand point and have no grasp on literary styles whatsoever.   (Which of course as we all know, can be the foundation of belief in some really weird $hit!  lolololol)  

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I don't think that it's really arguable that the Bible is one of the most important books ever written. Everyone should read it. Parts of it are beautiful, parts of it are profound, and parts of it are nonsensical. But there is no question that it has had more influence on history then almost any other book. It should certainly be read and studied carefully. One of my most prized possessions is a very old Bible which I inherited from my grandparents, but which has been in my family for several hundred years. I like books, and, by any measure, that is a very cool book. The fact that I don't consider it to be God's word doesn't really change this at all.

 

Welcome to Ex-C!

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6 hours ago, buffettphan said:

 

I think you meant from a literary stand point?  Unfortunately far too many christians can only see the bible from a literal stand point and have no grasp on literary styles whatsoever.   (Which of course as we all know, can be the foundation of belief in some really weird $hit!  lolololol)  

Lol yes... I should stick to words I can spell. Basically as literature there are parts of the bible i think are well written. That was what I was trying to say :)

 

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