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Goodbye Jesus

Just a curious being here


A_sinner

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Good afternoon all, I was browsing the web and came across this forum and while it helps me get through the issues that I am currently facing in life i want to thank every one that has posted on this forum because it's people like you that give newbies like me the courage to post and speak freely. With that being said, A little about me.. I am a hopeless romantic and i do believe in god (to some extent).I feel that Christianity is unfair and cruel to humans, i'm always adventurous and seek answers from the hard truth to the sweetest lie. it's an honor being part of this community and i hope that others can find whatever it is they seek here.

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Hello A_sinner

 

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

So you recognise that Christianity is "unfair and cruel". But you also believing in god to some extent. So may I ask which god? The Christian one, or a more deistic one?

 

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2 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Hello A_sinner

 

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

So you recognise that Christianity is "unfair and cruel". But you also believing in god to some extent. So may I ask which god? The Christian one, or a more deistic one?

Hello LogicalFallacy, Well to sum it up I am a Hindu and no I'm not religious. But what I mean when I believe in god to some extent is actually a Deistic god i'd say. There are just some things that humans can not explain or understand and while there may or may not be a god then that isn't something for us to worry about. Instead i believe if there is a god that we are to meet or seek, we will be made well aware of that and we all would follow one specific method in obtaining god. But of course these are just my silly beliefs but like I said.. I'm just a curious being. 

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So just me being curious, what are your reasons for believing in a deistic god, and what characteristics would this god have?

 

I don't think I've actually run across a deist before, its most interesting.

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16 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

So just me being curious, what are your reasons for believing in a deistic god, and what characteristics would this god have?

 

I don't think I've actually run across a deist before, its most interesting.

Well there are some phenomenons that we humans just can not explain.. life, death, why we were put onto earth and not Jupiter, why we were born as humans, why we need food to survive, how our body breaks down food and turns it into life sustaining energy ect.. The list can go on but hopefully you see my drift here. There were instances where I believed in the Hindu gods as a boy but growing up I didn't get much feedback into actually believing that they really do exist. For example.. Hindu's do a ceremony called a Puja and these are specific to a certain Hindu god, every Hindu god grants you different things. There is a Hindu god for good health, for wealth, for family protection, to ward off evil ect.. But at the end of it all.. You'll still get sick, you'll still be broke as hell and you'll most definitely lose someone in life, you'll die so all these things led me to believe that there is a god, but a not so social god. I could be wrong and if I am then I've yet to come across that proof.

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6 minutes ago, A_sinner said:

Well there are some phenomenons that we humans just can not explain.. life, death, why we were put onto earth and not Jupiter, why we were born as humans, why we need food to survive, how our body breaks down food and turns it into life sustaining energy ect.. The list can go on but hopefully you see my drift here.

...

 

So...how does believing in supernatural entities answer these questions?  Is there another process/method to investigate these questions? 

 

...

There is a Hindu god for good health, for wealth, for family protection, to ward off evil ect.. But at the end of it all.. You'll still get sick, you'll still be broke as hell and you'll most definitely lose someone in life, you'll die so all these things led me to believe that there is a god, but a not so social god. I could be wrong and if I am then I've yet to come across that proof.

 

It seems like the evidence you have presented does not support the existence of a god, labeled social or labeled otherwise.  Why would you need proof that your are "wrong" is your belief in a god?  Wouldn't the more honest and direct inquiry involve asking for evidence of the existence of this god or gods?

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19 minutes ago, A_sinner said:

Well there are some phenomenons that we humans just can not explain.. life, death, why we were put onto earth and not Jupiter, why we were born as humans, why we need food to survive, how our body breaks down food and turns it into life sustaining energy ect.. The list can go on but hopefully you see my drift here.

 

I can see your drift but am wondering if you've thought critically about your questions?

 

We can explain life and death to a large degree. We understand what life is, how it reproduces, grows old, and dies. We understand that once dead the brain rots away meaning you cease to exist and there is no known transfer of some spirit to the afterlife.

 

We haven't' been "put" anywhere. This infers intention where none is apparent. Life evolved here because its hospitable to life here. Had we evolved on Jupiture we'd be asking why we wren't on earth. I think there is a temptation to look at earth as if its specially made for us, when we have evolved to fit the planet. Think of the analogy of a puddle of water - the puddle thinks oh look at this hole i'm in, this hole must have been made especially for me. This of course is not the case. The water simply fills the hole in which it falls in.

 

"why we were born as humans, why we need food to survive, how our body breaks down food and turns it into life sustaining energy ect."

 

I'm not sure how these are unexplained phenomenon that give reason to thinking there is a deity. What's so special about being born as human? We need food to provide energy basically, and how it does that is well explained. None of the reasons you mention are unexplained at all.

 

How life first started is currently not fully understood - but the rest of your questions are fairly well explained.

 

I'm mentioning this in the hopes of you thinking very carefully about whether you have good reason to accept the existence of any god with the current data we have.

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Well you both prove valid points to yourself and i could sit here and prove valid points to myself and you would shut them down regardless and we would be here all week adding to it so i'd rather not get involved with that dilemma. All i am saying is that at some point some greater being created life. but it doesn't bother me enough that i need to seek or justify it. it's there so we just have to deal with it whether we'd like to or not. one piece of drama ill add is... DNA is an instruction manual, correct? it tells the cells how to act, behave ect.. DNA was written with intent to produce life so who wrote the DNA code? you can't honestly say a super huge explosion fused all these things together so perfectly and aligned. and if you want to say the big bang theory caused life.. what caused the big bang theory? like i said.. we can go on all day but i am content with my answers until i am ready to question things again ^_^

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Welcome!

 

Remember, the most useful and honest phrase you can learn is, "I don't know."

 

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20 minutes ago, A_sinner said:

Well you both prove valid points to yourself and i could sit here and prove valid points to myself and you would shut them down regardless and we would be here all week adding to it so i'd rather not get involved with that dilemma.

 

All we are trying to do here is cultivate critical thinking, not trying to prove things to you. We are aware that we don't have all the answers, but is not knowing something a good reason to declare that therefore x deity did it? It's basically an argument from ignorance which basically is saying that because we don't know what caused x, therefore it must be Z reason.

 

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/56/Argument-from-Ignorance

 

Also of interest may be the argument from incredulity

 

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/196/Argument-from-Incredulity

 

Quote

 

All i am saying is that at some point some greater being created life.

 

This leads us back to what reason do you have to believe this other than you don't currently know how life first started?

 

And what caused the greater being in the first place? An even greater being? And then what caused that one? I hope you can see where this type of reasoning leads?

 

I think you raise some interesting questions that can be explored in depth, but only when you are ready. And remember we are not "shutting down" your points. We are asking what valid reason do you have to support your points? That's how most of us got here, we asked ourselves, do we have a valid reason for believing in the Christian god? And most of us came to answer no.

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Welcome A_sinner. So glad you found us. You will be able to have the greatest discussions on this website with all the different members! Glad you joined us! Enjoy the site!

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3 hours ago, A_sinner said:

...

All i am saying is that at some point some greater being created life.

...

Just not in any way you can demonstrate.  You simply believe your mere assertion.

 

3 hours ago, A_sinner said:

...

but it doesn't bother me enough that i need to seek or justify it.

...

Convenient.  Why make the assertion in the first place if you are not willing to do the hard work to gather and present the relevant evidence to support your claim?  Religious indoctrination is not education, nor is it knowledge.

 

3 hours ago, A_sinner said:

...

it's there so we just have to deal with it whether we'd like to or not.

...

Read this in front of a mirror:

"it's there so I just have to deal with it whether I'd like to or not."

 

Put another way, speak for yourself, and not others.

 

 
3 hours ago, A_sinner said:

...

DNA is an instruction manual, correct? it tells the cells how to act, behave ect.. DNA was written with intent to produce life so who wrote the DNA code?

...

 

DNA is a rather complex molecule that assists with the formation of other molecules.  This usually occurs within cells.  The results include many organic processes which, when taken together, are part of carbon-based life, at least on this planet.  You claim DNA was "written" and ask "who" wrote the DNA code.  Actually, it is fairly obvious that you assume it was written by some intelligent agent, no doubt one of your former or current sky fairies.  

 

Again, just not in any way you can demonstrate.  The laws of physics, chemistry and biology (among other scientific disciplines) explain, for the most part, how DNA emerged from precursor molecules.

 

Study the argument from incredulity, a well know logical fallacy.  You are using it here.

 

In addition, study the term "anthropomorphism".  You are exhibiting anthropomorphism.  Most likely, that comes from your earlier religious indoctrination.

3 hours ago, A_sinner said:

...

you can't honestly say a super huge explosion fused all these things together so perfectly and aligned.

...

Sure I can, but I would not say it as you have.   To start with, the "Big Bang" was not an explosion.  I could go on.

 

3 hours ago, A_sinner said:

...

and if you want to say the big bang theory caused life.. what caused the big bang theory? like i said.. we can go on all day but i am content with my answers until i am ready to question things again ^_^

 

Scientific theories are not "caused".  Scientific theories are well-reasoned explanations of all available and relevant evidence.  They are human constructs.  They are falsifiable.  They are subject to modification or outright rejection if new evidence is discovered which forces such modification or rejection.  Current human understanding is rather robust when it comes to biological evolution (changes to populations of organisms over time), less robust when it comes to abiogenesis (origination of carbon-based life on Earth) and not clear when it comes to cosmology (origin of the Universe).  The folks who are working on these subjects work very hard under a rather rigorous intellectual method to advance human understanding.

 

You have no answers.  You only have creationist mere assertions.  Those are quite boring, empty, shallow and demonstrate current ignorance and a lack of curiosity, among other things. 

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Well Said Sdelsolray, I am glad that you have an explanation for everything but sadly I did not come here to seek any specifics. Had that been the intention I would have asked as I do question a lot. My point is that we all are here living beings on earth so we must deal with it and live our lives, am I right?  if you wish to seek and explore your origin or reason of life then by all means do so. But I do not wish or care to explore, therefore I state possible causes as to why I believe there is "Possibly" a god. If you read my original post I stated that I believe in god to "some" extent.  

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12 hours ago, A_sinner said:

Well Said Sdelsolray, I am glad that you have an explanation for everything but sadly I did not come here to seek any specifics. Had that been the intention I would have asked as I do question a lot. My point is that we all are here living beings on earth so we must deal with it and live our lives, am I right?  if you wish to seek and explore your origin or reason of life then by all means do so. But I do not wish or care to explore, therefore I state possible causes as to why I believe there is "Possibly" a god. If you read my original post I stated that I believe in god to "some" extent.  

 

Thank you for clarifying your prior post.  You believe there is possibly a god.  Yet you stated in your prior post "All i am saying is that at some point some greater being created life."  At least to me, this seems to be a claim that there is a god (or equivalent) and makes no reference to a "possibility".  

 

Also, you did in fact ask questions.  You asked:

 

"DNA is an instruction manual, correct?"

"DNA was written with intent to produce life so who wrote the DNA code?"

"[W]hat caused the big bang theory?"

 

So, I hope you can see how I became (and remain) confused at the apparent contradictions in what you have written.

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Believing there might be something we humans call a God and being religious are two different things. If God or God's exist "IT" seems benign and uninterested in humanity. If such a God exists "It" seems to be content minding its own business. Religion, on the other hand, is a different matter. Religions are problematic on so many levels. Religions are responsible for the slaughter of billions of people. Religions tend to be manipulative and they use fear, intimidation, and intense indoctrination to obtain and retain adherents. They are akin to little dictatorships that use people to obtain wealth, power, and control. 

 

So, believe in God or Gods if you want, but stay away from religion. 

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Geezer said:

Believing there might be something we humans call a God and being religious are two different things. If God or God's exist "IT" seems benign and uninterested in humanity. If such a God exists "It" seems to be content minding its own business. Religion, on the other hand, is a different matter. Religions are problematic on so many levels. Religions are responsible for the slaughter of billions of people. Religions tend to be manipulative and they use fear, intimidation, and intense indoctrination to obtain and retain adherents. They are akin to little dictatorships that use people to obtain wealth, power, and control. 

 

So, believe in God or Gods if you want, but stay away from religion. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm out of up-votes for the day, @Geezer but I give your reply to @A_sinner two snaps UP!

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  • 3 months later...

God is detached.  This is not negative, but a very positive way to be.  God is invisible, like electricity, incorporeal, (without a body).  God is a very subtle being, like a gentle puff of breeze.  God has deep love for everyone, including atheists, but has no need to convince anyone of anything.  It is possible to communicate with God but to do that you have to become as subtle, bodiless and peaceful as God is.  You have to become silent internally and spend a lot of time alone.  And you have to really really want to find God.  God is the Seed of all creation but he creates the world in a very different way than anyone is aware of.  God is not owned by any religion.  The way that God creates the new world is through the power of thought.  He takes an old messed up world (which you can see around you) and very subtly and in an incognito way finds souls willing to become his helpers in the creation of a new world.  He feeds them new thoughts like, I am a peaceful soul, I am not this body of flesh and bone, I am a pure being of light, I am God's helper, I am an angel, I see a new harmonious world where everyone cooperates and gives true love, I see a world where the environment is pure and the animals and humans live in harmony, etc.  He encourages these souls to transform themselves, and as these souls change and become happy and peaceful, the whole world changes.  Part of the change is the storms, the fires, the wars etc, because purity and impurity can't co-exist.  Right now we are living in a dying world, but it's ok because it is part of the process.  After a forest fire all you can see is charred remains but if you keep on watching you will see the new shoots of new life beginning to emerge.  A new world emerges out of the ashes of the old world.  You are a subtle soul, a being of light, you are not the physical body which you have identified with for so long.  The body is temporary, but the soul is eternal.  You are free and powerful.  Just realize it.

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@Soul,

 

Aside from the touchy-feeling bullshit please provide real world evidence of your accretions.

 

And with that perhaps this topic should be taken to the Lion's Den...

 

Thank you.

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You might actually want to investigate the origins & evolution of the Bible & the Christian Faith before you start lecturing anyone about what you believe. You will discover folks here know considerably more about the Bible & the Christian Faith than believers do. 

 

I suggest  you stop reading apologist. & start reading historians like Dr. Bart Ehrman.

 

And by the way the "God" you are worshipping is actually a Canaanite war God that was adopted as the one true God by the Israelites, who were originally Canaanite's too & were never slaves in Egypt. Oh yeah, Moses & the Exodists story are not true. That never happened.  

 

 

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" God is the Seed of all creation but he creates the world in a very different way than anyone is aware of. "

 

God shared this with you? I'm so jealous.

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15 hours ago, Soul said:

God is detached.  This is not negative, but a very positive way to be.  God is invisible, like electricity, incorporeal, (without a body).  God is a very subtle being, like a gentle puff of breeze.  God has deep love for everyone, including atheists, but has no need to convince anyone of anything.  It is possible to communicate with God but to do that you have to become as subtle, bodiless and peaceful as God is.  You have to become silent internally and spend a lot of time alone.  And you have to really really want to find God.  God is the Seed of all creation but he creates the world in a very different way than anyone is aware of.  God is not owned by any religion.  The way that God creates the new world is through the power of thought.  He takes an old messed up world (which you can see around you) and very subtly and in an incognito way finds souls willing to become his helpers in the creation of a new world.  He feeds them new thoughts like, I am a peaceful soul, I am not this body of flesh and bone, I am a pure being of light, I am God's helper, I am an angel, I see a new harmonious world where everyone cooperates and gives true love, I see a world where the environment is pure and the animals and humans live in harmony, etc.  He encourages these souls to transform themselves, and as these souls change and become happy and peaceful, the whole world changes.  Part of the change is the storms, the fires, the wars etc, because purity and impurity can't co-exist.  Right now we are living in a dying world, but it's ok because it is part of the process.  After a forest fire all you can see is charred remains but if you keep on watching you will see the new shoots of new life beginning to emerge.  A new world emerges out of the ashes of the old world.  You are a subtle soul, a being of light, you are not the physical body which you have identified with for so long.  The body is temporary, but the soul is eternal.  You are free and powerful.  Just realize it.

 

 Welcome to Ex-c!  I think you should start a topic in the Spirituality Section and allow the people who are longing for some kind of spiritual walk in 'the universe', to be able to post there? PM me and I'll let you in. The reason I suggest this is because if you go stay here in the Lions Den, you will have to prove what you are stating about this spiritual concept. So I'll leave this up to you. Thanks, new friend.  

(hug)  @Soul  The Spirituality Section allows for a much friendlier discussion.

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22 hours ago, Soul said:

God is detached.  This is not negative, but a very positive way to be.  God is invisible, like electricity, incorporeal, (without a body).  God is a very subtle being, like a gentle puff of breeze.  God has deep love for everyone, including atheists, but has no need to convince anyone of anything.  It is possible to communicate with God but to do that you have to become as subtle, bodiless and peaceful as God is.  You have to become silent internally and spend a lot of time alone.  And you have to really really want to find God.  God is the Seed of all creation but he creates the world in a very different way than anyone is aware of.  God is not owned by any religion.  The way that God creates the new world is through the power of thought.  He takes an old messed up world (which you can see around you) and very subtly and in an incognito way finds souls willing to become his helpers in the creation of a new world.  He feeds them new thoughts like, I am a peaceful soul, I am not this body of flesh and bone, I am a pure being of light, I am God's helper, I am an angel, I see a new harmonious world where everyone cooperates and gives true love, I see a world where the environment is pure and the animals and humans live in harmony, etc.  He encourages these souls to transform themselves, and as these souls change and become happy and peaceful, the whole world changes.  Part of the change is the storms, the fires, the wars etc, because purity and impurity can't co-exist.  Right now we are living in a dying world, but it's ok because it is part of the process.  After a forest fire all you can see is charred remains but if you keep on watching you will see the new shoots of new life beginning to emerge.  A new world emerges out of the ashes of the old world.  You are a subtle soul, a being of light, you are not the physical body which you have identified with for so long.  The body is temporary, but the soul is eternal.  You are free and powerful.  Just realize it.

 

That's just bullshit, start to finish.  I know because God is in my shirt pocket and has a face. Good grief.

 

But welcome to Ex-C.  Your best bet would be to listen to Margee and enter the netherworld of Ex-C. 

 

I don't think I've ever been there, myself.  Good luck whatever you do, even if you stay here and go there.

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On 02/10/2017 at 6:55 AM, A_sinner said:

Good afternoon all, I was browsing the web and came across this forum and while it helps me get through the issues that I am currently facing in life i want to thank every one that has posted on this forum because it's people like you that give newbies like me the courage to post and speak freely. With that being said, A little about me.. I am a hopeless romantic and i do believe in god (to some extent).I feel that Christianity is unfair and cruel to humans, i'm always adventurous and seek answers from the hard truth to the sweetest lie. it's an honor being part of this community and i hope that others can find whatever it is they seek here.

God is a very small concept we humans created to make us feel warm. I would think that there is a prime mover of some kind.

 

Here's a thought, maybe we are God's and we take human bodies to enjoy this universe, but something has gone horribly wrong. We might not know to get back to our heavenly abodes.

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On 10/1/2017 at 1:55 PM, A_sinner said:

Good afternoon all, I was browsing the web and came across this forum and while it helps me get through the issues that I am currently facing in life i want to thank every one that has posted on this forum because it's people like you that give newbies like me the courage to post and speak freely. With that being said, A little about me.. I am a hopeless romantic and i do believe in god (to some extent).I feel that Christianity is unfair and cruel to humans, i'm always adventurous and seek answers from the hard truth to the sweetest lie. it's an honor being part of this community and i hope that others can find whatever it is they seek here.

 

I gave you a "I like" for your honest and tasteful opening post. Sorry to hear of your continued belief in God, I don't want to tell you that your belief in God is wrong, but here in the Lion's Den I think I can say that the idea of a God is not only misguided, such ideas are full of shit. Your intellect is probably much greater than such stupidity that one can read in the Christian bible, or hear from a misguided interpretation of it.

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  • 10 months later...
On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 3:39 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

We haven't' been "put" anywhere. This infers intention where none is apparent. Life evolved here because its hospitable to life here. Had we evolved on Jupiture we'd be asking why we wren't on earth. I think there is a temptation to look at earth as if its specially made for us, when we have evolved to fit the planet. Think of the analogy of a puddle of water - the puddle thinks oh look at this hole i'm in, this hole must have been made especially for me. This of course is not the case. The water simply fills the hole in which it falls in.

I really like this

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