Castiel233 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Lunatic shoots up a public place........prayers. Yet a few weeks or months later it happens again. Every Easter religious leaders pray for peace in the Middle East.........every year those prayers go unanswered. Christians get cancer or other fatal problems, prayer for healing and die anyway........ Yet we are informed by religious leaders and in fact the bible that prayer works, that god hears and acts upon them.......what a load of tosh..... if your car breaks down, you pop the bonnet and see if you can spot the problem, no joy and you phone for assistance. You don't drop to your knees and ask Yahweh through the blood of Christ to heal the engine. Billions and billions of prayers are offered up daily to various deities and to zero effect beyond statistical random chance Look at pictures of Trump and Pence, or other US leaders surrounded by faith leaders laying on their hands and pretending to talk to an invisible being they have never meet....... Its almost a tragic joke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 3, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2017 Prayer is completely useless. At best you get a placebo effect, at worse the pressure of being prayed for makes you less well. It's 50/50 and in either case the result is the same. Useless. The danger is that a great number of the population actually thinks it has real world effects. Most the time its harmless, but sometimes a whole lot more than just prayer is needed. Thankfully, despite peoples beliefs, most people don't rely too heavily on it and help out just in case prayer doesn't work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 http://therationalviewpoint.blogspot.com/2010/09/great-prayer-experiment.html http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html https://lunchboxsw.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/templeton-prayer-study-fail/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutrichuckles93 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 As one of my favorite podcasters once said, people think that the power of christ is a real superpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Imo that should read how dangerous is prayer? Because when people pray and leave it all up to god, they completely overlook the amount of good they could be accomplishing in regards to making things better in this world for themselves and others. And as for the amount of people who think prayer alone will fix it and they are absolved of any responsibility, there's a lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said: Imo that should read how dangerous is prayer? Because when people pray and leave it all up to god, they completely overlook the amount of good they could be accomplishing in regards to making things better in this world for themselves and others. And as for the amount of people who think prayer alone will fix it and they are absolved of any responsibility, there's a lot of them. I'm not aware of too many folks praying for something within their power and not actually doing anything. Mostly I see things like "See, god guided my ratchet as HE replaced my water pump!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 How many prayer chains did you get by email as a believer? Yeah not about things that people felt they could fix themselves necessarily. I find it particularly dangerous in regards to health concerns. I've heard so much "oh god will heal them if he answers our prayers" in combination with outright distrust of the medical system as well as "let's use natural methods only because that was what god intended." So instead of focusing all their energy on research or having any trust in the medical system what are they doing.. prayer circles by email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 3, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2017 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 @LogicalFallacythanks I needed a laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Don't be afraid little flock, He knows what you need before you ask him BUT hammer on his door and get him out of bed to get what you want. Ask and you shall receive, Ask anything in my name and I will do it BUT you ask and you don't receive because you ask with wrong motives. Maybe God wants your child to suffer. Even though we have an intimate relationship with our daddy in heaven, he won't tell us, so we just have to trust him even though he gives us no reason to do so. Isn't that just awesome? He always has a better plan for us than what we ask for. Such grace and mercy to not answer our prayers. Which of you fathers, if his son asks for a fish will give him a snake? Of if he asks for bread will give him a stone? If you then, though you are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give good gifts to those who ask him? BUT maybe he's increasing your faith. He isn't a cosmic vending machine, you know. He doesn't dance to our tune. Aren't his promises great and precious?! They sound so great. Maybe you should praise him more. Try fasting to get his attention. Maybe you aren't obedient enough. We'll keep guessing because he's totally silent. But we have the Holy Spirit, so that'll help. He's totally silent also, except for the speaking in tongues. That doesn't seem to do much, but it's pretty cool, huh? Glory. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 @Fuego you know I thought I was doing a good job with the anger but even your sarcasm sent me back on a mind trip and triggered me. Damn I got so angry when in the church over the implication that those who ask correctly and have purer hearts are more blessed and receive more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Oh the power of prayer! It works--if you do it right. I know because I just experienced it. As per George Carlin, I found someone I can see and hear to pray to. This was about my apartment's heating system. I moved in last winter. All summer I'd been praying to the building superintendent about the problem. I made all kinds of arguments, I gave reminders, then more reminders. I got answers galore, promises galore. It will get fixed but the maintenance man has lists, long lists, it's on his list but he's busy inspecting another floor, be patient, he'll get to you... One frosty Sunday morning an "Off Duty" sign hung on the super's door. "Call for emergencies only." But I was cold and no one had yet come check on my heating system. I'd fixed it myself as best I knew how but was it safe? It was eight o'clock in the morning, hardly a friendly time to call the super when off-duty. I called. Woke her up on her one-day-a-month off. She had seen the situation and after ranting about the rest of the universe, she assured me it was okay to try it out. The next day, the maintenance man showed up at my door. That's what I called answered prayer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I prayed to get taller when all the other guys were passing me up in height, during my teenagehood. I remained 5' 5". So, no power on the height issue, at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 8 hours ago, Tsathoggua9 said: I prayed to get taller when all the other guys were passing me up in height, during my teenagehood. I remained 5' 5". So, no power on the height issue, at least for me. Jesus said it wouldn't work to pray about that, if I remember correctly. Choose your interpretation of Matt. 6:27 . 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 One thing is for certain. Prayer is absolutely futile when it comes to changing the course of nature. I don't deny that it can bring some people a much needed sense of comfort that they are "doing at least something," but that is personal to their minds alone. The natural order is not changed in any way by a person's petitions, meditations, requests, demands, etc. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 15 hours ago, R. S. Martin said: Jesus said it wouldn't work to pray about that, if I remember correctly. Choose your interpretation of Matt. 6:27 . Drat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 If prayer worked, we'd all be living in a disease free, poverty free and suffering free paradise right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anushka Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 On 04/10/2017 at 10:52 PM, R. S. Martin said: Jesus said it wouldn't work to pray about that, if I remember correctly. Choose your interpretation of Matt. 6:27 . Lol! Didn't expect that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgemi Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 The last time I was dragged to a church the sermon went something like this: OK Christians, I know sometimes we have the tendency to rely on our own bootstraps and say to ourselves ‘I got this,’ but what we need to say is ‘I am weak but thou art strong” and then get on our knees and pray every day. And this is how we should pray: blah blah... I used to think and pray that way. A LOT! Looking back, I did a whole lot of wollowing in my own weakness, waiting for god to bring on the strength. It took pulling myself up by my bootstraps and telling myself ‘I got this’ to dig my way out of that hole. So I came away from church that day totally fulfilled (not by the sermon and certainly not by the music), but by my own satisfaction in having overcome such a worthless concept by my own strength. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerPK Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 These are my thoughts on prayer. God is supposed to be all-knowing. If he knows everything, he already knows what the outcome of everything will be. Let's say you have cancer. You pray that God will heal you. But God already knows that you're going to die from your cancer. If he were to answer your prayer and heal you, he would have to change his mind. But how can he change his mind when he knows everything? He would have to know that he was going to change his mind and heal you, which would then mean that he was going to heal you in the first place. So you are healed. But this can't be an answer to your prayers for healing, it has to just be what was already going to happen. If God can change his mind and decide to answer prayers, he is not all-knowing, which means he is not what Christians believe him to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Even Christians admit prayer is conditional. Ask anything in the name of Jesus & it will be granted IF it is within God's will. And God definitely answers every prayer. God will respond with a yes, or a no, or let me think about that & I'll get back to ya. Christians know how to cover their butts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted November 3, 2017 Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2017 George Carlin said it best: "Maybe, just maybe, God doesn't give a fuck?" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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