Fuego

Nature of reality

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Westworld is a series that makes one wonder about the lines between what we think is real and what is real. How programmed am I? Are there basic assumptions I have about reality that are flawed, incorrect, or actually lies? When I began the process of deconversion from Christianity, the most important question I asked myself after realized I had followed a man's lies for 9 years was "What else have I believed that is a lie?" That is an important question daily.

 

The new Blade Runner movie (as well as the original) asks this question of us, or tries to get us to ask the question of ourselves. What is reality? How much of it do we get to choose to create and to become, and how much is laid out for us that will not move? Have our models of reality in physics and chemistry missed things that exclude whole realms of understanding? If we discover them, are we allowed to remember them? Is life a game run by puppet masters, like the "lives" of the characters in Westworld who aren't allowed to ponder or recognize certain aspects of reality?

 

There are times when I watch the strange play of our current administration and wonder who is behind the scenes laughing and profiting. I wonder at the next three years and if anyone is even planning to run against him, or if that race has already been decided. It feels like they are pushing Christian laws without overtly saying they are doing so, because that would be illegal. Is it only in the saying of it that it becomes illegal? How could someone so overtly rude and inane become our nation's leader? Who is really in charge? Do they even care that we ask such questions? Are we the "people" in the toy bin on Twilight Zone trying to understand their purpose in being in the same bin together?

 

Most days I'm content to see my biological life as part of a greater process of life and death and recycling of nature. Other days I ponder these odd questions, examining advertising and culture for programming and trying to see if I am thinking and feeling my own thoughts or someone else's. Am I a drone, carrying out a mundane program while someone else profits from this mundane activity ala The Matrix? Most days, our knowledge of physics and such (with my rudimentary understanding of them) seem quite enough, and seem to be the result of time tested methodologies of understanding how things work. Other days, I see oddities in world history and archeology and wonder if we really are the remnants of life after a terrible catastrophe, and we've forgotten massive amounts of information and technology we once had at our disposal. Today must be one of those days, since I'm writing this.

 

Still, it is a good question to ask and to ponder. I wonder what else I've believed that is a lie?

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In terms of the general question of whether there are unseen forces behind governments, I tend to subscribe to the cock-up theory rather than the conspiracy theory.  I'm not convinced that there is any shadowy power in world politics with the level of knowledge or organisation that would permit a real life x-files.  Trump, from where I'm standing, is an aberration of public prejudice rather than a puppet of something even more sinister.

 

In terms of whether there is a greater reality of which we are unaware, I suspect so but have no idea how that can be shown one way or the other.  We don't know what we don't know.  The discussion on another thread on this board with Joshpantera concerning consciousness is about as far as we can go down that road, as far as I can see.

 

In terms of whether we make our own reality - up to a point.  I can make up my mind to enjoy something or be miserable.  My relatively colour blind world is probably a tad greyer than Mrs E's.  But beyond that?  Even assuming a theoretical possibility, how could all those competing psyches create anything personal when every individual is so outnumbered?

 

Unless of course you are a figment of my imagination...  And I challenge you to prove to me that you are not:D

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20 hours ago, Fuego said:

There are times when I watch the strange play of our current administration and wonder who is behind the scenes laughing and profiting. I wonder at the next three years and if anyone is even planning to run against him, or if that race has already been decided. It feels like they are pushing Christian laws without overtly saying they are doing so, because that would be illegal. Is it only in the saying of it that it becomes illegal? How could someone so overtly rude and inane become our nation's leader? Who is really in charge? Do they even care that we ask such questions? Are we the "people" in the toy bin on Twilight Zone trying to understand their purpose in being in the same bin together?

 

It's hard to imagine a scenario where manipulation from the behind the scene isn't the case. At least as far as corporate interests are concerned. 

 

 

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Its interesting to me how our minds create our own realities.  A positive mental outlook that does not emphasize what is "wrong" in the world is a real asset in overall well being, yet not to deny the very many disturbing or difficult things that do on.  I don't know if I would go so far as to say "all is mind" like some Buddhist schools, but it sure is a lot.

 

As far as what is really going on with the leadership of the U.S., we are just not in a position to know. Our elected officials don't seem to be running the show.

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5 hours ago, Deva said:

Its interesting to me how our minds create our own realities.  A positive mental outlook that does not emphasize what is "wrong" in the world is a real asset in overall well being, yet not to deny the very many disturbing or difficult things that do on.  I don't know if I would go so far as to say "all is mind" like some Buddhist schools, but it sure is a lot.

 

As far as what is really going on with the leadership of the U.S., we are just not in a position to know. Our elected officials don't seem to be running the show.

 

Reflecting on the mentioned conversation about consciousness and awareness as primary, when put into perspective there may be something to those "all is mind" schools of thought after all: 

 

 

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Though "all is consciousness" (which would be my preferred formulation to "all is mind") is probably not the same thing as minds making their own reality.  Seems to me it asserts consciousness as a basic underpinning of existence - but not that I'm only sitting at my computer because I think I am.  Maybe that I am only aware that I am sitting at my computer because existence incorporates pure awareness at a basic level.

 

I wonder if there is a need to formulate an idea of subjective reality and to investigate where it links in to objective reality - assuming it is possible to agree a concept of objectivity in the first place.

 

Hmm.  Needs further thought.

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5 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Reflecting on the mentioned conversation about consciousness and awareness as primary, when put into perspective there may be something to those "all is mind" schools of thought after all: 

 

 

 

To be fair, I don't really have a great understanding or grasp of the Cittamatra School of Tibetan Buddhism.  I have a book on it somewhere written by my Tibetan teachers. I may revisit it due to reflecting on this thread.

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I assume there is a reality, that which simply is regardless of what anyone thinks it is. I also suspect we, with our very limited ability to perceive, cannot know reality beyond our own personal realities. After all, we're only equipped to see a small segment of light and hear a limited range of sound frequencies. We are not only subject to physical, perceptual limitations but are given our identities and world view from birth, so "reality" varies among cultures and times.

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I am still inclined to think that there is a reality out there despite what we may think. But I don't know exactly what it is, and neither do scientists. There is "dark matter" and "dark energy" which is unknown as far as definition or properties go. There are still some unknowns out there.  All has not been uncovered and explained yet.

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When it comes to other realities I embrace the SWAG theory (stupid wild ass guess). I'm offering my wild ass guess. If such realities exist I'm going with the theory of other dimensions. B)

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The problem with the unknown is that we don't know what it is...

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17 minutes ago, Ellinas said:

The problem with the unknown is that we don't know what it is...

 

:lol:

 

It seems simple enough. But that's the very problem with christianity. They are pretending as if the unknown, is known, when it can't be....

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1 minute ago, Joshpantera said:

 

:lol:

 

It seems simple enough. But that's the very problem with christianity. They are pretending as if the unknown, is known, when it can't be....

I can't think of any reply more appropriate than...

 

"I know"

 

;)

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All we have is our senses, and our brains....

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