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Goodbye Jesus

Isn't it Sad that People Deconvert and then Relapse?


Deva

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Just saying, knowing what they  know about how crazy the whole Christian "plan of salvation, etc." is, isn't it sad that it has so huge a hold on peoples' minds that it is almost impossible to let it go? How many people have you seen that go back to it and just can't seem to stop?

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It is so sad Deva. We have an ole' favorite member that's been here with us for years who is gone back.  His posts are unbelievable. They are beyond evangelizing. I had to stop following him because they actually triggered me. But I feel that he is happier and how can I ever take that away from him? When one is struggling for happiness because one feels empty inside, sometime one will do anything. I've been tempted myself at times .... just to hear the music, watch and feel all the emotion, maybe even dance around a little bit. I do miss the 'high'.  But I know now that I would know the truth in my heart... so it will never happen.

 

I  truly understand people who have to go back.......

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It's sad to see people return to something that damages them.  But not all are damaged.

 

It's sad to see people return to a belief system that demands they hide their overwhelming superiority complex and certainty of their own "rightness" behind hypocritical pseudo-humility.  But I have known some (few) whose version of Christianity is not so toxic.

 

So, I suppose it depends on to what it is they return.

 

Ultimately, and coming at this from a particular personal viewpoint, I sincerely wish that fundies, evangelicals and any of whatever faith who believe that only their own groups hold the one true way to approach life should learn to leave aside that belief structure.  These are people who insist their beliefs are my concern.

 

Whether they end up following some sort of spirituality having left that belief structure, of whatever name, is a matter for them and of no concern to me - a point on which they would hopefully agree.

 

If they return to their prejudice disguised as spirituality - that is sad.

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I think it is evidence of just how powerful & effective religious indoctrination is. Overcoming & rejecting that indoctrination is often easier said than done. It seems to me, for some people anyway, the fear of hell is greater than logic, reason, evidence, & the desire to be free from religious legalism. And yet there are those who still claim Christianity isn't a cult. 

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I suppose I should just say I am glad they are happy, but its so hard to believe it will last.

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I posted in another thread that I can still "feel the spirit" at times, particularly if I'm in preaching mode (i.e., raking the church over the coals for not following what they claim to believe). For those that feel like a chunk of their life is missing without church, I can see why they'd feel drawn to it. Some churches give people an emotional high via music and verbal manipulation and being part of a group. Without something else to take the place of it, some people feel quite sad. I was able to replace it with a small group of jazz singers. We don't nose into each others lives like church people do, but we stay in touch and go to each other's shows. That gives me the fellowship and singing without the manipulation and the fake god. Still costs a lot to go to clubs though... :-)

 

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Some prisoners get released from jail and soon commit another crime just so they can return to the controlled life behind bars they got used to. The spirit of independence and self reliance has been extinguished. Same thing.

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47 minutes ago, florduh said:

Some prisoners get released from jail and soon commit another crime just so they can return to the controlled life behind bars they got used to. The spirit of independence and self reliance has been extinguished. Same thing.

1

 

That's a five star florduh! ***** You hit the nail on the head! (for me anyway) It's scary to be left on your own.

Thanks

 

 

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7 hours ago, Margee said:

It is so sad Deva. We have an ole' favorite member that's been here with us for years who is gone back.  His posts are unbelievable. They are beyond evangelizing. I had to stop following him because they actually triggered me. But I feel that he is happier and how can I ever take that away from him? When one is struggling for happiness because one feels empty inside, sometime one will do anything.

 

I so know what you mean, and who you mean!

 

I've thought about unfriending him for a short moment but then... considering all the RL shit he's been going through lately, and still is going through, I do think this has not been a truly free choice on his part. He keeps stating that it's not the known mental afflictions that have plagued him for years that made him to full "on fire for jebus", but I do have my doubts. He certainly doesn't seem reasonable, so maybe he's developed another mental problem.

 

But yeah, it keeps him happy, probably gives him the strength to hold on, and as long as he's not starting to preach hellfire or try and convert everyone, I'm determined to just skip his fanatic jebus postings and be there for him regarding other things. Of course I've never been a morontheist myself so there's no risk that I could get triggered by his postings, so there.

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5 hours ago, Thurisaz said:

 

I so know what you mean, and who you mean!

 

I've thought about unfriending him for a short moment but then... considering all the RL shit he's been going through lately, and still is going through, I do think this has not been a truly free choice on his part. He keeps stating that it's not the known mental afflictions that have plagued him for years that made him to full "on fire for jebus", but I do have my doubts. He certainly doesn't seem reasonable, so maybe he's developed another mental problem.

 

But yeah, it keeps him happy, probably gives him the strength to hold on, and as long as he's not starting to preach hellfire or try and convert everyone, I'm determined to just skip his fanatic jebus postings and be there for him regarding other things. Of course I've never been a morontheist myself so there's no risk that I could get triggered by his postings, so there.

 

Yes. I am reluctant to say more, since I have always believed its not proper to discuss people behind their backs, so to speak, but I just wanted to express my feelings.  This is a place where everyone knows and understands what I am referring to. I will say that I have never liked the Christian end times emphasis - its offensive - and date setting is just about the most stupid aspect of Christianity.  By the same token, there is a real attraction in the idea of seeing this world go away permanently when your circumstances in this world are hard.  The only time I found it at all interesting or attractive myself was as a teenager, but then I wasn't ever certain I was one of the folks that would be taken away by  the rapture. Its a powerful idea when you are raised with it and the authority figures in your young life all seem to believe it.   I seem to be able to see both sides of any story.

 

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If you're referring to who I think you are, just wait a while. He'll swing back around again. It's a mental health issue. I've lost count how many times this has happened over the past 12 years. 

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19 hours ago, Geezer said:

I think it is evidence of just how powerful & effective religious indoctrination is. Overcoming & rejecting that indoctrination is often easier said than done. It seems to me, for some people anyway, the fear of hell is greater than logic, reason, evidence, & the desire to be free from religious legalism. And yet there are those who still claim Christianity isn't a cult. 

I was just thinking recently that if the bible did not mention a hell at all, there wouldn't be so many people converting to Christianity. It is out of fear that Christians obey. 

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17 hours ago, Vigile said:

If you're referring to who I think you are, just wait a while. He'll swing back around again. It's a mental health issue. I've lost count how many times this has happened over the past 12 years. 

 

I sure hope so. However, he's stated several times that he checked with several shrinks and they all agree that this time it's not the same old same old with him.

I hope you're right and he'll come back to his senses... though keeping in mind the massive shit he's going through currently I'm sure it'll take quite some time.

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10 minutes ago, Thurisaz said:

 

I sure hope so. However, he's stated several times that he checked with several shrinks and they all agree that this time it's not the same old same old with him.

I hope you're right and he'll come back to his senses... though keeping in mind the massive shit he's going through currently I'm sure it'll take quite some time.

 

I don't know if the poor guy will ever come to his senses. He just seems to cycle between religion and atheism depending on where he's at in his mania. It must be exhausting. I tend to discount the shrinks. It's his interpretation of what they had to say and they may not know his history like some of us here do. He sounds totally genuine about whatever he believes at the time he believes it and then a switch goes off and he believes something else. 

 

Logically, I don't think someone can see the man behind the curtain with religion the way he clearly does when he's in the atheist mode and then legitimately go back to it. The only reasonable explanation is it's a brain chemical issue because a sane person can't just put those doubts back on the shelf and pretend they aren't there. 

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It is stuff like this that constantly reminds me that life is so incredibly complex. Its so easy to see things as black and white and maybe a little gray in there. But its mostly gray with some black and white.

More than anything, I simply miss the social aspect of Christianity. I couldn't care less about the religion itself, but I miss the sense of "purpose" I used to have when I attended church. That old feeling and the desire to have it again in my life is pulling me very strongly. I am contemplating a return to attending church, but I am still really struggling with how and why I am even considering it.

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For me, it's not just the "community I miss," but also that I've become a bit of an outcast by it. Anyone who knows where I'm at with religion does this pitying, ostracizing, sympathetic, know-it-all bullshit and I'm sick of it. I just want to live my life and not be a dick, why can't they do the same. 

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2 minutes ago, ag_NO_stic said:

For me, it's not just the "community I miss," but also that I've become a bit of an outcast by it. Anyone who knows where I'm at with religion does this pitying, ostracizing, sympathetic, know-it-all bullshit and I'm sick of it. I just want to live my life and not be a dick, why can't they do the same. 

Exactly.

 

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Church represents way too much baggage for me. I'd rather listen to UFO conspiracy theory radio all day than spend 5 minutes back in the pew. 

My parents did rope me into visiting once around 15 years ago via my wife. Long story, but it was quite funny. My wife is Russian, and expected a cathedral. My folks were attending a church that were renting a HS gym. The pastor preached under the basketball net. Just watching my wife's reaction to it was worth the visit. That, and maybe the free donuts. 

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5 minutes ago, Storm said:

Exactly.

 

 

I guess it helps living in another country where no one goes to church. I would not deal well living in a suburb full of religious Griswalds. 

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I only know of one person who has relapsed. But his was more do to his personality type than any mania effect. He just becomes whatever whoever he is around is. But his religious sect had their own beliefs about human's being unable to make an informed decision because the devil makes the wrong decision look right. The fact that atheism looks more correct indicates that it must be false and your brain can't be trusted to figure it out because of Sin.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Vigile said:

My wife is Russian, and expected a cathedral. My folks were attending a church that were renting a HS gym.

 

Some congregations prefer the building to be as plain as possible because it's the message and not the building that should be impressing you. I noticed other countries have elaborately decorated churches even in poor rural areas. Sometimes the church or temple is the nicest building in a whole town. I always wondered what our buildings would seem like to someone used to fancy religious buildings. In a way it might looks like we don't take religion as seriously if we don't bother to make the buildings so nice.

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11 minutes ago, Lucy said:

 

 

Some congregations prefer the building to be as plain as possible because it's the message and not the building that should be impressing you. I noticed other countries have elaborately decorated churches even in poor rural areas. Sometimes the church or temple is the nicest building in a whole town. I always wondered what our buildings would seem like to someone used to fancy religious buildings. In a way it might looks like we don't take religion as seriously if we don't bother to make the buildings so nice.

 

This is what Russians expect when you tell them they are going to church. You can imagine her shock at a basketball court:

isaac2.jpg

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4 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

For me, it's not just the "community I miss," but also that I've become a bit of an outcast by it. Anyone who knows where I'm at with religion does this pitying, ostracizing, sympathetic, know-it-all bullshit and I'm sick of it. I just want to live my life and not be a dick, why can't they do the same. 

 

@ag_NO_stic

Tried to react to this comment but I'm out of reactions for the day. How ironic! :P

 

I've HAD it with people who, normally, would question, think, speak only when they have evidence or inside knowledge of something. But when it comes to fundiness somehow the mere act of raising one's voice or saying things like "You KNOW the gospel is the truth!" is sufficient to quell any further discourse in the matter. 

 

FUCK them and the bat-shit crazy they rode in on!

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As you all know I had a relapse of my own in the Summer of '15.

 

I was desperate to mitigate the incredible tension in the air on the home front and so visited the pastor of Mrs. MOHO's church and was exposed to the god virus the following Sunday. It lasted about 20 minutes - as as soon as the euphoria wore off.

 

I continue to attend with Mrs. MOHO but not regularly and I don't into the sanctuary. She knows I have doubts but I think she is CERTAIN that, if she prays often and loud enough, that I will return. We don't' talk about it and this seems to work.

 

Like @Vigile has indicated it would be a bitch for him to exist in a community full of religious folk - but that's what I've got. Tell you what, though - this can have it's "benefits". Just last week we had din din at the home of a couple whom I was unaware that they were so incredible bat-shit crazy, over-the-freak'n-top, fundy. As the conversation went on and on about how god "SPOKE" to them and told them were to build their house and how they evangelize to EVERYONE in the neighborhood and how wonderful they are in god's eye's for doing so and what wonderful people they are and how knowledgeable they are of scripture, I found myself hoping I would regurgitate my meal all over their nice living room floor as a gesture.

 

What I mean by a benefit of being exposed to these narcissistic Cretans is that it negates any and all desire to reenlist.

 

It would  take Jesus/god/spaghetti monster etc.  appearing before me and performing a miracle to get me back this time. 

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If it were just that religion makes people happy, I wouldn't hold it against them. But because they try to suck others into their damaging beliefs, and are manipulative, especially toward children who might not know any better, then we have a problem. I don't think there is a genuine Christian in existence who doesn't do this to some extent. It's not just sad that people go back: it's selfish and wrong because Christianity is so inherently controlling.

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9 minutes ago, Lilith666 said:

it's selfish and wrong because Christianity is so inherently controlling.

 

OK.

There you have it in a nutshell.

No further comment is necessary.

 

I will though.

Not only does Mrs. MOHO (bear with me) pass out tracts - many of which are directed at children, but there is a woman at Mrs. MOHO's church who uses puppets to dupe the little ones. A few weeks ago she entered the sanctuary during worship ( I was watching through the window of one of the doors) with a monkey of some sort (puppet) designed to hang on to it's operator. This thing was seriously cute and looked real enough for the young ones. 

 

Anyway she proceeded to show how (insert cute puppet name here) LOVED church and jesus and the bible and that THEY SHOULD TOO! All of this was done using a wireless mic and sound effects. I was absolutely flabbergasted! I could only ponder the depths one must sink in order to fuck with the little minds like this.

 

I am a strong proponent of free speech but this should be illegal. It's not legal to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater and it should not be legal to fuck with little minds.

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