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Which Christian Behaviors Most Annoy Atheists?


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Because he/she gets to escape the terrifying doctrine, myth and belief in hellfire that each and every one of us had to break free from. She gets to believe in the magical sky god that is 'all love''

See, in my mind, that makes god an abuser. He demands I believe in him and all that entails (worship, etc...) or I will be subjected to horrific punishment. In human law, this is called extortion and

Hi, Penny. I think it's cool of you to sign up because your friend asked you to, that's already way more decent of you than some friend responses many of us have experienced. Of course if it's your "w

41 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I think you've hit the crux here why you believe, even if it was proven false. It's an emotion thing. I get that. I just can't do that. Even if it would be nice to think of a place where we can live forevermore, reality tells me it doesn't exist so I can't believe it.

 

Once there was a time of a never-ending dream
Of being free, of immortality
When a song was a mystery
And the stars so easy to reach
But something changed now the sand's trickling slow
The time of innocence is over now


I know the rivers won't be flowing on forevermore
The wind of time blows right into my eyes
My flower withers and so do they all
Nothing lasts forevermore

Why is my fate that I will never see
The story's end, the final truth to be
And to you lights that help me through the dark
My greatest fear is losing your spark

I know the rivers won't be flowing on forevermore
The wind of time blows right into my eyes
My flower withers and so do they all
Nothing lasts forevermore

I see the days go by and feel the snow is falling down
I've seen the end is waiting by my side
The dream is lost, once I was told
It's gone forevermore

 

I know the rivers won't be flowing on forevermore
The wind of time blows right into my eyes
My flower withers and so do they all
Nothing lasts forevermore

 

Xandria - Forevermore

 

That song pretty much represents me once I realised Heaven and Hell weren't real and I wasn't going to live for eternity. Nothing lasts forevermore. You have one life to live, make sure you enjoy it.

I was told I can not know there is a Heaven. In the song, it states the person knows nothing is forevermore- but how can that be known? If I can not know there is a Heaven and only believe, how can you know there isn’t?

 

 

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On 12/6/2017 at 2:52 PM, ag_NO_stic said:

 

Why?

Because it is something that is “normal” in the human social structure. I think it predates all religions and goes back to the beginning. Of course, it is explained that monogamy makes the most sense economically. I think it goes back to the beginning, of course. 

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8 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

Do you mind me asking how you arrived at your beliefs? It's one thing to evangelize when you're not asked, but I'm engaging you in your beliefs and it's a welcome dialogue. I'm just wondering how one would get to a point that you choose to believe something you'd self-describe as absurd. Is it just that you believe we have made logic, science, reason, and the observable parts of life our "idols?" Are those things not of much value compared to faith/belief/the "unprovable?" Like...how do you "know" him to be loving? Everyone is convinced of something somehow, you wouldn't believe in Santa or Bigfoot or the Toothfairy without learning it and being convinced of it somewhere. Not even the slightest bit of sarcasm or unkindness meant, I'm sincerely curious.

Oh, well it is a long story. I suppose I can go into it. I was raised in church, so believed in God at a young age. I went to a Grace church, which means that salvation is eternal, eternal security. I always believed God was good and loving and the author of everything good. 

 

My father was very abusive to us, and I grew to hate him. My mother decided to leave my father when I was 10. I had an uncontrollable rage imside me against him, and had planned to kill him. I am serious, and not just saying I wanted to kill him, I planned it. This was in the two years after we left. My father would visit us from time to time at my grandparents’ house. 

 

I was completely filled with hate and rage. I was also suicidal. One night when I was 12, I asked Jesus to save me because I felt if I died and went to Hell, I’d surely deserve it as I basically committed murder in my heart. 

 

In that instant, I was saved. I can not explain the feeling. It was like being cleaned from the inside, washed. Suddenly, I did not hate my father anymore or want to kill him. I no longer wanted to kill myself. I felt like light must have been showing out of my face, I was so full of God. So I got out of my bed and went to look at myself in the mirror. Of course, I was not streaming with light- but it was how I felt. 

 

I know my conversion is based on my personal experiential knowledge and surely no proof to anyone but myself. I also know people will probably explain it as my feelings or emotions. 

 

In college, I thought Christianity must be false, that God was not real- that this life was all. So, I became an atheist for a few months, or maybe a year. I’m not sure I told anyone. Basically, I wanted to be intelligent and it seemed as all the intelligent people were atheists, and all Christians were stupid. 

 

I wrote a rather scathing essay about Christianity and the myth of free will for a psychology class. My professor asked to talk to me in his office. He asked me a few questions and suggested I read CS Lewis’ Screwtape Letters. I did, and for the first time, I realized a person could be educated and a Christian. I started listening to a Bible study on the radio my sister listened to, and the pastor was an educated man. It solved my dilemma. I had rejected Christianity for a time because I thought it was only for stupid people. I was able to return to my first love because I found out that not all Christians were stupid. 

 

In other words, I can believe in something illogical and absurd without being absurd myself. 

 

I do not think science and reason are idols or are meaningless. 

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28 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

I was told I can not know there is a Heaven. In the song, it states the person knows nothing is forevermore- but how can that be known? If I can not know there is a Heaven and only believe, how can you know there isn’t?

 

I don't. You are taking the song too literally.

 

At this point in time there is no reason to accept that heaven and hell exist, and no justification for believing it.

 

So the correct position, which makes for very bad song writing, is that all of my research indicates that there is nothing outside of our reality that can be measured and demonstrate. I have accepted that reality as I understand it.

 

But imagine if the song line was:

 

I accept the rivers won't be flowing on forevermore (Notwithstanding any evidence that would alter this position)

 

Can you imagine that as a song line? :D 

 

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8 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Oh, well it is a long story. I suppose I can go into it. I was raised in church, so believed in God at a young age. I went to a Grace church, which means that salvation is eternal, eternal security. I always believed God was good and loving and the author of everything good. 

 

My father was very abusive to us, and I grew to hate him. My mother decided to leave my father when I was 10. I had an uncontrollable rage imside me against him, and had planned to kill him. I am serious, and not just saying I wanted to kill him, I planned it. This was in the two years after we left. My father would visit us from time to time at my grandparents’ house. 

 

I was completely filled with hate and rage. I was also suicidal. One night when I was 12, I asked Jesus to save me because I felt if I died and went to Hell, I’d surely deserve it as I basically committed murder in my heart. 

 

In that instant, I was saved. I can not explain the feeling. It was like being cleaned from the inside, washed. Suddenly, I did not hate my father anymore or want to kill him. I no longer wanted to kill myself. I felt like light must have been showing out of my face, I was so full of God. So I got out of my bed and went to look at myself in the mirror. Of course, I was not streaming with light- but it was how I felt. 

 

I know my conversion is based on my personal experiential knowledge and surely no proof to anyone but myself. I also know people will probably explain it as my feelings or emotions. 

 

In college, I thought Christianity must be false, that God was not real- that this life was all. So, I became an atheist for a few months, or maybe a year. I’m not sure I told anyone. Basically, I wanted to be intelligent and it seemed as all the intelligent people were atheists, and all Christians were stupid. 

 

I wrote a rather scathing essay about Christianity and the myth of free will for a psychology class. My professor asked to talk to me in his office. He asked me a few questions and suggested I read CS Lewis’ Screwtape Letters. I did, and for the first time, I realized a person could be educated and a Christian. I started listening to a Bible study on the radio my sister listened to, and the pastor was an educated man. It solved my dilemma. I had rejected Christianity for a time because I thought it was only for stupid people. I was able to return to my first love because I found out that not all Christians were stupid. 

 

In other words, I can believe in something illogical and absurd without being absurd myself. 

 

I do not think science and reason are idols or are meaningless. 

But science and reason can be, and so can the Bible and the Christian God...  If anything it was good that your inward condition of hatred improved, but is there a need to send anyone to hell if God has that capability?  God wants people to go to hell, then.  It even says so in the Bible.  Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated.  I guess we must just admit that if the Christian deity is real, he hates most people and wants them to fry forever.   It really does lead to indifference and contempt for the whole religion when viewed that way.  I don't scoff at anyone's personal experiences so lets assume something spiritually real happened to you.  Why not others then?  Why all these people on here that said they sought Jesus and found nothing?  He ignored them?

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39 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Perhaps, but it is more pleasant than the alternative. 

 

Is it?

 

I don't believe hell exists, nor do I believe in spirits or an afterlife at all. It's not a risk I consider because there's no point to worrying about it.

 

You on the other hand believe you are rolling dice in regard to whether you end up in eternal paradise or eternal suffering.

 

The odds are also not in your favor. What if you're wrong and end up in hell because you were in the wrong denomination of Christianity and weren't "saved" properly, or worse, picked the entirely wrong religion and end up in front of Allah, or Krishna, or whatever other god for your final judgement?

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15 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

 

Is it?

 

I don't believe hell exists, nor do I believe in spirits or an afterlife at all. It's not a risk I consider because there's no point to worrying about it.

 

You on the other hand believe you are rolling dice in regard to whether you end up in eternal paradise or eternal suffering.

 

The odds are also not in your favor. What if you're wrong and end up in hell because you were in the wrong denomination of Christianity and weren't "saved" properly, or worse, picked the entirely wrong religion and end up in front of Allah, or Krishna, or whatever other god for your final judgement?

I did not mean Hell. I meant the alternative is this life only with no Heaven. LogicalFallacy said “enjoy life”, and that is kind of cruel. What about kids with cancer, or people who are so poor they live on a trash dump called Happy Land in the Philippines. They kind of have a sucky Earthly existence. There are things I could do to enjoy life more- but I’ll never be able to travel the world and see all the things I want to see or read all the books I want to read. 

 

This life alone is not enough. 

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40 minutes ago, ToddJ said:

But science and reason can be, and so can the Bible and the Christian God...  If anything it was good that your inward condition of hatred improved, but is there a need to send anyone to hell if God has that capability?  God wants people to go to hell, then.  It even says so in the Bible.  Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated.  I guess we must just admit that if the Christian deity is real, he hates most people and wants them to fry forever.   It really does lead to indifference and contempt for the whole religion when viewed that way.  I don't scoff at anyone's personal experiences so lets assume something spiritually real happened to you.  Why not others then?  Why all these people on here that said they sought Jesus and found nothing?  He ignored them?

I have come to believe in eventual Universal Reconciliation. I believe Hell is real, I believe it is the absence of God and all things good and beautiful. The nothingness. I believe that Jesus is merciful and loving. It does not make God happy for anyone to go to Hell. It gives Him no satisfaction or pleasure. I believe with my whole heart that if someone in Hell cries out for Jesus to save him, Jesus will come and rescue that person. I know God is love and loves us all. 

 

The Bible teaches that Hell was made for Satan. Man was never intended to be there in the first place. 

 

Jesus never ignores. I don’t mean to say everyone has to have a sudden spiritual awakening. I used to think they did- but I believe it may come gradual to others. 

 

I do not know what others wanted Jesus to do. If they asked Him to save them, He most assuredly would if the person believes in their heart. 

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2 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

Perhaps, but it is more pleasant than the alternative. 

The alternative is just in your mind Penny, there's no real hell, it's just you believe there is a horrible alternative.

 

Have you ever watched a movie about ghosts, then believed ghosts might appear in your room at night. It's really like that. You are really scared, but it's just in your mind, you give it power over you by believing in it.

 

 

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3 hours ago, ContraBardus said:

 

I didn't.

 

I was convinced that Christianity is wrong. I didn't really decide it.

 

The lack of evidence, contradictions, evidence of fraud, and general absurdity was just too strong against it and I literally could not believe in it anymore no matter how much I wanted to.

 

Belief or a lack of it are not always optional. Particularly where the weight of evidence is against something so strongly.

 

Exactly!  Unbelief wasn't a choice or a decision.  It was the end result of realizing there was no evidence for my beliefs.

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31 minutes ago, primaryzero said:

The alternative is just in your mind Penny, there's no real hell, it's just you believe there is a horrible alternative.

 

Have you ever watched a movie about ghosts, then believed ghosts might appear in your room at night. It's really like that. You are really scared, but it's just in your mind, you give it power over you by believing in it.

 

 

That is not the alternative I meant. The alternative I meant was that this life is all there is. That is not very happy. I am glad I believe in the immortality of the human soul. 

 

I used to have a friend and he would point to the Psalm about God saying “ye are gods” and Jesus repeating it. I puzzled over this. It made no sense, until I figured out it must mean because we are immortals. 

 

I do not believe in ghosts, as I believe the souls either go to Heaven or Hades. 

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12 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

That is not the alternative I meant. The alternative I meant was that this life is all there is. That is not very happy. I am glad I believe in the immortality of the human soul. 

 

I used to have a friend and he would point to the Psalm about God saying “ye are gods” and Jesus repeating it. I puzzled over this. It made no sense, until I figured out it must mean because we are immortals. 

 

I do not believe in ghosts, as I believe the souls either go to Heaven or Hades. 

Is that not Greek mythology? 

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1 hour ago, PennySerenade said:

I did not mean Hell. I meant the alternative is this life only with no Heaven. LogicalFallacy said “enjoy life”, and that is kind of cruel. What about kids with cancer, or people who are so poor they live on a trash dump called Happy Land in the Philippines. They kind of have a sucky Earthly existence. There are things I could do to enjoy life more- but I’ll never be able to travel the world and see all the things I want to see or read all the books I want to read. 

 

This life alone is not enough. 

Yeah well wishful thinking won't make thing's better for them. It's probably better they never know the horrible alternative god gives them, at least then they'll have one less thing to worry about.

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7 minutes ago, primaryzero said:

Is that not Greek mythology? 

It is a word borrowed from Greek mythology, yes. It means the place that is not Heaven. The separated place. Hell is not actually opened yet- not the fire and brimstone Hell. Which makes me think that Hades is a place where people can repent and be saved. 

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2 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

It is a word borrowed from Greek mythology, yes. It means the place that is not Heaven. The separated place. Hell is not actually opened yet- not the fire and brimstone Hell. Which makes me think that Hades is a place where people can repent and be saved. 

Did you know that according to Revelations, hades gets thrown into hell.

So, death itself gets thrown into hell, or hell gets thrown into hell.

 

It doesn't make any sense.

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5 minutes ago, primaryzero said:

Yeah well wishful thinking won't make thing's better for them. It's probably better they never know the horrible alternative god gives them, at least then they'll have one less thing to worry about.

Oh, but it absolutely DOES make things better for people who believe in Heaven. I can not tell you the comfort I get from knowing my sister and grandmother are there and my great uncle whom I never met, but heard stories. Also, my ancestors and famous people of the past. It is going to be exciting. Heaven is not a worry if you have assurance. My grandfather is 84 and a Christian. He says he is ready to see my grandmother and my sister again and to see Jesus. It is a comfort to us knowing that death is a blip in the relationship, a temporary separation. The last words I told my grandmother were “I will see you again.” Yes, I mourned and miss them- but it is nice knowing I will see them and be with them forever. 

 

I want to see my father well. My sister and I both said independently that we want to meet our father in Heaven and know who he really was if he were not sick. 

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Just now, primaryzero said:

Did you know that according to Revelations, hades gets thrown into hell.

So, death itself gets thrown into hell, or hell gets thrown into hell.

 

It doesn't make any sense.

Yes, death and the grave gets thrown into Hell. Because Hell is intended for Satan and will be opened up when Satan is put there. I am thinking that most humans will have repented by then. Wouldn’t that be a marvelous thing? For God to win it all and Satan gets no souls to torture? 

 

It is exciting, and bigger than we are. 

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6 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Yes, death and the grave gets thrown into Hell. Because Hell is intended for Satan and will be opened up when Satan is put there. I am thinking that most humans will have repented by then. Wouldn’t that be a marvelous thing? For God to win it all and Satan gets no souls to torture? 

 

It is exciting, and bigger than we are. 

Satan isn't death, well I'm pretty sure he isn't. Where do you get the idea that Satan is torturing souls? I know no biblical references. 

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3 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

Perhaps, but it is more pleasant than the alternative. 

Yes. You dont actually believe in god or Santa Clause, you WANT to believe in them I think. 

I hope whatever you are going through personally, that you get through it ok. 

You seem nice enough but you are clinging wildly to make-believe. 

Good luck to you :)

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13 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Oh, but it absolutely DOES make things better for people who believe in Heaven. I can not tell you the comfort I get from knowing my sister and grandmother are there and my great uncle whom I never met, but heard stories. Also, my ancestors and famous people of the past. It is going to be exciting. Heaven is not a worry if you have assurance. My grandfather is 84 and a Christian. He says he is ready to see my grandmother and my sister again and to see Jesus. It is a comfort to us knowing that death is a blip in the relationship, a temporary separation. The last words I told my grandmother were “I will see you again.” Yes, I mourned and miss them- but it is nice knowing I will see them and be with them forever. 

 

I want to see my father well. My sister and I both said independently that we want to meet our father in Heaven and know who he really was if he were not sick. 

Who says we won't all end up together and whole, but why do you have to believe in all this mind bending stuff to arrive at that conclusion. You don't need a holy book to ponder the possibilities laid out in your heart.

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9 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

That is not the alternative I meant. The alternative I meant was that this life is all there is. That is not very happy. I am glad I believe in the immortality of the human soul. 

 

I used to have a friend and he would point to the Psalm about God saying “ye are gods” and Jesus repeating it. I puzzled over this. It made no sense, until I figured out it must mean because we are immortals. 

 

I do not believe in ghosts, as I believe the souls either go to Heaven or Hades. 

 

That only sounds good because you don't really understand the concept of "immortality". Not so much the literal definition of the idea, but rather the scope of what it actually means.

 

Eternity, even in paradise, sounds horrific to me.

 

Humans aren't wired to live forever, we'd eventually go insane regardless of how nice our surroundings were.

 

You can make up platitudes about how we'll be "different" as souls, but that's baseless conjecture. You don't know anything, and no one in this world knows enough to teach you any differently.

 

I also couldn't find any comfort in the idea of spending an eternity hanging around the thing called a God in the Old Testament.

 

Also, again, no being deserves eternity of punishment for any crime. Not even Lucifer himself would deserve that. No matter how long he's been wrong or evil, it's a finite amount of time and eternal infinite suffering does not fit the crime as a just or fair punishment.

 

I much prefer the idea that we're finite beings. What I've seen personally supports that. I know more about being dead than most because I've been dead, twice actually. Once in a hospital bed and once during surgery.

 

Nothing about your "comforting" afterlife is really all that comforting. It's wishful thinking that only seems like a good idea as long as you don't think about it too long. I much prefer the idea that we just end to the idea that some will suffer forever while a handful of others get to selfishly live in paradise forever, which would eventually become a kind of hell of its own. Just being a good person is not enough for God by the way, and the bible directly says, so a great many good people will be cast into hell and suffering.

 

John 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that enter not by the door into the flock, but climb up some other way, is like a thief."

 

Translation: You can't just be a good person and get into heaven. This isn't an interpretation, it's made clear that is exactly what it means by this passage:

 

John 10:9 "I am the door, by me if any man enter, he shall be saved and go in and find pasture."

 

In fact, most people won't get into heaven no matter how "good" they are, so it's actually less likely that your relatives are there than it is that they are. One or two might have made it, but the odds are against them according to the Bible.

 

Also, if you've spent your entire life raping, pillaging, and murdering, you can get into heaven if you just accept God at the last second, while people who have lived entirely virtuous lives are cast into hell. Again, this is directly stated as absolutely true by the Bible. How is that in any way just, merciful, or good?

 

Luke 13:23-24 and 28, “Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able ... There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.”

 

I find it weird that anyone would find comfort in a system where most people are left to suffer for eternity, while only a few are "saved" from this fate. That's pretty selfish really, and really begs the question of why exactly you think that you'll personally be worthy when most of the rest of humanity isn't.

 

Then there's this: Revelation 20:15, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

 

I'm not really seeing an upside here or any reason to think of the Christian concept of the afterlife as comforting to be honest. The odds are drastically stacked against you no matter how you look at it.

 

I also fail to see what is so merciful or good about a God who set up a system where the majority of humanity is doomed to fail and end up eternally damned.

 

I much prefer the neutral idea of simply not existing, which my own personal experience backs up as the reality of death. Whether you get a good end or a bad end for the rest of eternity is entirely based on a crap shoot in your case. Not just that you've chosen the right religion, but also betting on whether you've even gotten the right denomination within that religion.

 

Your beliefs just don't line up with what is actually written in the Bible. I doubt you've ever really read it because what you believe is not really supported by what is written in it. I'm sure you're familiar with commonly used passages and assigned reading for reflection and study, but I doubt you've ever really sat down and actually read the entire thing as one normally reads a book. If you had, you wouldn't be making many of the claims and statements about your beliefs that you've made in this thread.

 

You're pretty clueless about your own religion to be honest. It's a stretch to say that you believe in something you don't really know much about. Based on your posts in this thread, you don't really have any strong beliefs regarding faith, you just don't question what you're told much and simply parrot it when pressured.

 

It's also dangerous assuming your beliefs about your religion and the afterlife are true. How do you know you're following the rules and guidelines if you don't know what they actually are? Aren't you risking eternal damnation by simply going along with things without question? Isn't it clear that your chances of getting into eternal paradise are already low enough as it is? Isn't it in your best interests to study and find out exactly what you're supposed to be doing and be aware of every little nuance? Should you really be putting that much trust in clergy to do your thinking for you when you have your eternal soul riding on it all? I don't even mean they would deliberately lead you astray, but should you really rely so completely on them to save your own soul if you really believe what you've posted about what is actually at stake? If what you're saying about the afterlife is true, you ought to be able to recite the entirety of the Bible from memory and be terrified of knowing so little yourself and being reliant on others to get you into the very exclusive and prohibitive membership that the Bible itself says the Christian afterlife is.

 

Another important question is which particular translation of the Bible do you use? It's not a matter of which one you simply like best. Which translation is your favorite shouldn't matter much when your eternal soul is on the line. They all word things differently and can lead to completely different interpretations of "God's Laws". Which is very strange if you consider that the Bible is supposed to be God's Word and inspired by a divine being. Still, you need to make sure you've got the right version of the book that has all the instructions worded properly so you don't screw up. Not sure exactly how you figure that out, but it's your soul, so I'd think it's important enough that it's worth figuring out somehow or another.

 

If you really and truly believe what you've been posting regarding your own beliefs and faith, you've really got a lot of work ahead of you. The Bible makes it pretty clear that there is very little room for error, so "good enough" isn't going to cut it.

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4 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

I did not mean Hell. I meant the alternative is this life only with no Heaven. LogicalFallacy said “enjoy life”, and that is kind of cruel.

 

Let us assume that I'm right and your wrong. There is no heaven. Is that cruel or just a fact?  If it is the case that heaven doesn't exist, does believing in a heaven that doesn't exist make any difference to the outcome?

 

Quote

What about kids with cancer, or people who are so poor they live on a trash dump called Happy Land in the Philippines. They kind of have a sucky Earthly existence. There are things I could do to enjoy life more- but I’ll never be able to travel the world and see all the things I want to see or read all the books I want to read. 

 

This life alone is not enough. 

 

Life can be a bitch that is true, that is why we Ex-Christians try and live life to the fullest because we realise wishing for some glorious afterlife doesn't make it true.

 

Regarding kids with cancer - your God created cancer - go talk to him about it.

 

And do you realise that under your religion those of us whose greatest crime is not believing god exists will be sent to hell for eternity. That's a bit of a sucky eternal existence isn't it?

 

 

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7 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Let us assume that I'm right and your wrong. There is no heaven. Is that cruel or just a fact?  If it is the case that heaven doesn't exist, does believing in a heaven that doesn't exist make any difference to the outcome?

 

 

Life can be a bitch that is true, that is why we Ex-Christians try and live life to the fullest because we realise wishing for some glorious afterlife doesn't make it true.

 

Regarding kids with cancer - your God created cancer - go talk to him about it.

 

And do you realise that under your religion those of us whose greatest crime is not believing god exists will be sent to hell for eternity. That's a bit of a sucky eternal existence isn't it?

 

 

I think it is cruel to say there is no Heaven. No offense, but I would be way more depressed than I already am if I believed there was no Heaven. 

 

I believe in eventual Universal Reconciliation. I believe Hell is eternal, but that man’s time in it will be temporary. I think it is purgative and instructive for man, rather than punitive. Let us say I trust that Jesus will rescue people in Hell as well as on Earth. 

 

I do not believe God created cancer. Anything terrible is in the purview of Satan, not God. 

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6 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

I think it is cruel to say there is no Heaven. No offense, but I would be way more depressed than I already am if I believed there was no Heaven.

 

And yet if heaven is not real then it doesn't exist. You are essentially creating an illusion for yourself to give you comfort.

 

6 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

I believe in eventual Universal Reconciliation. I believe Hell is eternal, but that man’s time in it will be temporary. I think it is purgative and instructive for man, rather than punitive. Let us say I trust that Jesus will rescue people in Hell as well as on Earth.

 

Yes, well it is nice that God would create hell, then father himself so he could sacrifice himself to himself to save us humans from the hell he created.

 

6 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

I do not believe God created cancer. Anything terrible is in the purview of Satan, not God. 

 

Penny, you are gonna run into some huge problems if you continue down this line of thinking: And be very careful how you might answer this - I've seen the same arguments over and over... people simply do not follow their own arguments through to conclusion. 

 

Who created Satan?

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