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Which Christian Behaviors Most Annoy Atheists?


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9 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

I don’t believe you’ve read my posts. I obviously am not parrotting anything I learn in church as eventual Universal Reconciliation is considered heresy by most Christians (although when I pressed my mother about it- she conceded that perhaps it was true because God loves everyone and is good).

 

I have assurance of salvation, not because of me- good grief, no! But because of Jesus. I am trusting in Him. So, I don’t have to be good enough. I know if I go shoot a bunch of people, I’d go straight to Heaven just as much as I would go if I died today. I don’t want to shoot a bunch of people, and I don’t believe saved people would go shoot a bunch of people- but this is my extreme example since most people consider murder to be evil. 

 

Yes, a rapist, murderer, thief, etc can go to Heaven just by believing. To me, this is marvelous. It is the grace of God. It means I can go, too. I don’t have to fear, I don’t have to worry. I just believe. This is mercy. 

 

I would not want to just die. There is a lot of learning and growing for me to do. I sense that I’ll not be able to do all the learning and growing I need to do in this life only. I imagine it will take me eternity to get to the place where I want to be. It is exciting to contemplate. Thrilling, actually.

 

I know some of my relatives are in Heaven, as they were believers. I trust that perhaps others were saved at the point of death. Or perhaps after death. God’s mercy endureth forever. 

 

I have read the Bible many times, but must confess to being out of the practice as of late. 

 

 

No one in my book would get into heaven by paying lip services to a god to dissolve their guilt, after killing a bunch of people.

 

Why? Because you've just altered the future for thousands of people, maybe millions. Who knows maybe you've just killed the person who'd be the father of the child who cured cancer.

 

You radically change shit, even stepping on an ant by mistake changes shit.

 

You don't pray that away.

 

After you die you must pay for your sins by moving space rocks around, one space rock = one sin.

 

 

 

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Because he/she gets to escape the terrifying doctrine, myth and belief in hellfire that each and every one of us had to break free from. She gets to believe in the magical sky god that is 'all love''

See, in my mind, that makes god an abuser. He demands I believe in him and all that entails (worship, etc...) or I will be subjected to horrific punishment. In human law, this is called extortion and

Hi, Penny. I think it's cool of you to sign up because your friend asked you to, that's already way more decent of you than some friend responses many of us have experienced. Of course if it's your "w

9 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

I have experiential knowledge. I realize my knowledge is subjective and personal only to me. 

 

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10 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

I have experiential knowledge. I realize my knowledge is subjective and personal only to me. 

 

That's not knowledge. Again, knowledge is something you can apply, prove, or provide a sound basis for. You cannot do any of that for anything you've posted.

 

Subjective and personal means it's an opinion at best, and opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

 

That's not knowledge. Again, knowledge is something you can apply, prove, or provide a sound basis for. You cannot do any of that for anything you've posted.

 

Subjective and personal means it's an opinion at best, and opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

If my stomach hurts, it is my experiential knowledge. I certainly can not prove the my stomach hurts. It is not an opinion if I am experiencing pain. I suppose someone could do a cat scan on me and see if the parts of the brain that respond to pain would be active in an effort to prove myself. 

 

Perhaps the parts of the brain that are active during euphoria were active during my conversion. I suspect they were. Unfortunately, conversion does not happen under scientific experimental conditions. 

 

A scientist could not say “Subject, accept Christ as your Saviour. We will see if you are experiencing euphoria.” 

 

Even if you could prove I experienced euphoria, a person could say that it is self induced and not communion with God. 

 

I know I can not prove what I know. 

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22 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

If my stomach hurts, it is my experiential knowledge. I certainly can not prove the my stomach hurts. It is not an opinion if I am experiencing pain. I suppose someone could do a cat scan on me and see if the parts of the brain that respond to pain would be active in an effort to prove myself. 

 

Perhaps the parts of the brain that are active during euphoria were active during my conversion. I suspect they were. Unfortunately, conversion does not happen under scientific experimental conditions. 

 

A scientist could not say “Subject, accept Christ as your Saviour. We will see if you are experiencing euphoria.” 

 

Even if you could prove I experienced euphoria, a person could say that it is self induced and not communion with God. 

 

I know I can not prove what I know. 

 

You don't know, you believe. They are not the same thing. If you can't prove it or apply it, you don't know it.

 

Actually, you can prove that your stomach hurts. It's usually more trouble than it's worth, but it's a physical thing that can be proven.

 

It's just not an uncommon claim and most people are willing to take you at your word for it.

 

Euphoria is also not uncommon. Some sects of Christianity teach that it's some special thing that is proof of God's presence, but the reality is that they just use well documented psychological tricks to get people excited and then claim God did it.

 

I got euphoric when I went to see the Force Awakens. Does that mean that Luke Skywalker is God or that the Force is real?

 

I can only base this on what you've posted, but it's enough that I can come to some reasonable conclusions:

 

You're wishy-washy and non-committal.

 

I have a hard time believing you actually really believe what you're posting. At least not seriously. You'd like to think that you do, but can't commit to it.

 

It seems more like you're trying and failing to talk and rationalize yourself into believing more and don't want to let go because it's scary, but instead are talking yourself out of it more and more.

 

You're floundering and refuse to take a firm stance, keep falling back to dog whistle phrases that are meant to reinforce but are actually just nonsensical Pavlovian triggers, and are trying to flow around obstructions and are instead just getting dammed up by them.

 

Based on your posts, you want to have it both ways and are desperately avoiding commitment. Unfortunately that's not sustainable and you'll have to go one way or the other sooner or later, and you might not have a choice about which way you end up going.

 

I do think you really still do believe at least some of what you're saying, but your faith, if you even really have it anymore, is weak. Weak faith can't sustain belief for long. Eventually they'll collapse in on each other and that can be a bit messy emotionally speaking.

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1 hour ago, ContraBardus said:

 

You don't know, you believe. They are not the same thing. If you can't prove it or apply it, you don't know it.

 

Actually, you can prove that your stomach hurts. It's usually more trouble than it's worth, but it's a physical thing that can be proven.

 

It's just not an uncommon claim and most people are willing to take you at your word for it.

 

Euphoria is also not uncommon. Some sects of Christianity teach that it's some special thing that is proof of God's presence, but the reality is that they just use well documented psychological tricks to get people excited and then claim God did it.

 

I got euphoric when I went to see the Force Awakens. Does that mean that Luke Skywalker is God or that the Force is real?

 

I can only base this on what you've posted, but it's enough that I can come to some reasonable conclusions:

 

You're wishy-washy and non-committal.

 

I have a hard time believing you actually really believe what you're posting. At least not seriously. You'd like to think that you do, but can't commit to it.

 

It seems more like you're trying and failing to talk and rationalize yourself into believing more and don't want to let go because it's scary, but instead are talking yourself out of it more and more.

 

You're floundering and refuse to take a firm stance, keep falling back to dog whistle phrases that are meant to reinforce but are actually just nonsensical Pavlovian triggers, and are trying to flow around obstructions and are instead just getting dammed up by them.

 

Based on your posts, you want to have it both ways and are desperately avoiding commitment. Unfortunately that's not sustainable and you'll have to go one way or the other sooner or later, and you might not have a choice about which way you end up going.

 

I do think you really still do believe at least some of what you're saying, but your faith, if you even really have it anymore, is weak. Weak faith can't sustain belief for long. Eventually they'll collapse in on each other and that can be a bit messy emotionally speaking.

The great thing is this: it doesn’t depend on my faith. It depends on Jesus. I don’t have to maintain anything. It is very restful. I don’t deny I am weak. The song that children sing in Sunday School is very comforting. “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so. Little ones to Him belong, we are weak, but He is strong.”

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3 hours ago, primaryzero said:

No one in my book would get into heaven by paying lip services to a god to dissolve their guilt, after killing a bunch of people.

 

Why? Because you've just altered the future for thousands of people, maybe millions. Who knows maybe you've just killed the person who'd be the father of the child who cured cancer.

 

You radically change shit, even stepping on an ant by mistake changes shit.

 

You don't pray that away.

 

After you die you must pay for your sins by moving space rocks around, one space rock = one sin.

 

 

 

I don’t much like your system. I don’t want to work in a cosmic quarry for eternity. 

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43 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

The great thing is this: it doesn’t depend on my faith. It depends on Jesus. I don’t have to maintain anything. It is very restful. I don’t deny I am weak. The song that children sing in Sunday School is very comforting. “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so. Little ones to Him belong, we are weak, but He is strong.”

 

Once again you're saying stuff that is directly contradicted by the Bible multiple times.

 

Every time you talk about your religion, you show that you know less about it, and more importantly, the basis for it.

 

You seem to be under the impression that you don't have to do anything and that Jesus will do it all for you. Nothing in the Bible supports that, no denomination teaches it, and there's no justification or support for that supposition at all. In fact, it's actively taught to be untrue and false by every type of Christianity.

 

The Bible very clearly states that you can't be lazy and expect God and Jesus to do all the work for you, that there is no easy path and it takes a great deal of effort and work to get into heaven, and that what you're suggesting would simply not cut it no matter how you look at it.

 

You sound like you think you're Jesus's trophy wife or something and that you're set for life and won't ever have to do anything but think nice thoughts about Jesus and be passive. Even among Christians that's delusional.

 

If Christianity is even remotely true then I'm afraid the final destination of your path is pretty clear...

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

Last thoughts, do you see why your response might cause some pain to those of us who have called out to Jesus and have not been answered? Does this not give you pause to how your interpretation might be flawed?  Or do you believe that our interpretation is flawed?

 

I cannot speak for everyone here. But I have cried and cried and cried. Screamed, pleaded, begged....silence.

 

Frankly, I don't want to "evangelize" to you without your request either, so I won't try to convince you. I am just trying to lend understanding to how we got where we are. Some people arrived here by an empirical, rational analysis of the evidence (or lack thereof). Some of us, like me, have a blend of emotion and reason. Mine has been a very personal loss, a very depressing and heartbreaking experience. The bible instructs believers to always have an answer for the hope that they have. I wanted so much to be with Jesus, to be with him, to make him proud of me, to break the deafening silence. The more I looked for some of the answers to questions that plagued me, the more I lost faith/hope in my "savior." Now, I wonder why I need a savior at all? I don't think it's possible to trespass against a being whose existence I question. 

I’m very sorry. If it is any consolation to you, most believers- if they are honest, have questioned the existence of God. I am sorry that it is painful to read my posts. I do not mean to insinuate that I am a special person. 

 

I do not want to evangelize you either, but I believe if you ever believed, you are saved. I do not mean this to be offensive. Please pardon me if the above statement about your spiritual status is offensive. 

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7 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

 

Once again you're saying stuff that is directly contradicted by the Bible multiple times.

 

Every time you talk about your religion, you show that you know less about it and more importantly the basis for it.

 

You seem to be under the impression that you don't have to do anything and that Jesus will do it all for you. Nothing in the Bible supports that, no denomination teaches it, and there's no justification or support for that supposition at all. In fact, it's actively taught to be untrue and false by every type of Christianity.

 

The Bible very clearly states that you can't be lazy and expect God and Jesus to do all the work for you, that it is not an easy path and takes a great deal of effort and work, and that what you're suggesting would simply not cut it no matter how you look at it.

 

You sound like you think you're Jesus's trophy wife or something and that you're set for life and won't ever have to do anything but think nice thoughts about Jesus. Even among Christians that's delusional.

 

If Christianity is even remotely true then I'm afraid the destination of your path is pretty clear...

 

 

 

It is not very common. It is called the gospel of grace. The Bible does support it. The whole book of Galatians was written to warn the Gentile believers not to listen to Judaizers. Works are neither to obtain or maintain salvation- only for growing in grace and sanctification. 

 

You are right, there is a danger for grace people to be lazy and neglect being good. On the other hand, the motivation for being good is simply for the love of God and people and not motivated by fear. Perhaps you have never heard of Grace believers or Dispensationalists. It is not a formal denomination. Sometimes called Bible churches, sometimes Berean. 

 

Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

 

Believing is enough. However, if I want to please God, I will try to do as He tells me. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

I think it is cruel to say there is no Heaven. No offense, but I would be way more depressed than I already am if I believed there was no Heaven. 

 

I believe in eventual Universal Reconciliation. I believe Hell is eternal, but that man’s time in it will be temporary. I think it is purgative and instructive for man, rather than punitive. Let us say I trust that Jesus will rescue people in Hell as well as on Earth. 

 

I do not believe God created cancer. Anything terrible is in the purview of Satan, not God. 

 

I observe the following:

 

1)  You have constructed a Pollyannaish religion for yourself.

 

2)  That personal religion and related fantasies and delusions are a form of self-medication you constructed to deal with childhood trauma.  You have been quite successful in self-medicating with this.

 

3)  The addiction you exhibit to the details of your personal religion is more important to you than reality, facts, logic or rational thinking.

 

4)  You are either afraid of, lazy or a coward about addressing your childhood trauma in any other manner.

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11 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

I observe the following:

 

1)  You have constructed a Pollyannaish religion for yourself.

 

2)  That personal religion and related fantasies and delusions are a form of self-medication you constructed to deal with childhood trauma.  You have been quite successful in self-medicating with this.

 

3)  The addiction you exhibit to the details of your personal religion is more important to you than reality, facts, logic or rational thinking.

 

4)  You are either afraid of, lazy or a coward about addressing your childhood trauma in any other manner.

Thank you for your observations. Let us say my faith is self medication. Isn’t it better to self medicate with Christianity than with drugs, alcohol, or promiscuous sex? I am very well aware if I had not gotten saved, I’d probably be a drug addict. 

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5 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Thank you for your observations. Let us say my faith is self medication. Isn’t it better to self medicate with Christianity than with drugs, alcohol, or promiscuous sex? I am very well aware if I had not gotten saved, I’d probably be a drug addict. 

 

You present a false dichotomy, a classic logical fallacy.  There are other choices.

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On 2017-12-07 at 9:36 AM, Vigile said:

 

I honestly hope it stays that way for her. I remember a member who was here years ago who believed exactly like this until she lost her baby. The harsh reality she was faced with caused her beliefs to come crashing down and it was painful and what caused it even more so. I don't wish that on anyone. 

I was going to say something of the same. It can be a survival mechanism until you're faced with difficulty or tragedy and have to face the fact that yes these are all "God given" for Christians. This is why my family would tell me I became "bitter" over the hardships God sent me and became separated from his "love". Yes, his love. And this is why I will never provide them with explanations about why I left. After all the pain and the whole process, hearing "god is love" just results in a lot of anger, and I literally have to calm myself down and leave the space so I don't blow up. Its nothing but salt in the wounds and it's astonishing how christians think they have the right to judge another person's experience with pain and suffering and on top of that, heap more blame and judgement on them for leaving the fold. 

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1 hour ago, PennySerenade said:

It is not very common. It is called the gospel of grace. The Bible does support it. The whole book of Galatians was written to warn the Gentile believers not to listen to Judaizers. Works are neither to obtain or maintain salvation- only for growing in grace and sanctification. 

 

You are right, there is a danger for grace people to be lazy and neglect being good. On the other hand, the motivation for being good is simply for the love of God and people and not motivated by fear. Perhaps you have never heard of Grace believers or Dispensationalists. It is not a formal denomination. Sometimes called Bible churches, sometimes Berean. 

 

Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

 

Believing is enough. However, if I want to please God, I will try to do as He tells me. 

 

 

 

You seem to think a lot more of Saul than I do. He contradicted Jesus a lot, and adapted Christianity to the Romans rather than the other way around.

 

Anyway, even Galatians doesn't agree with you:

 

Galatians 6:1: Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load.

 

You're confusing pacifism and being passive in regard to confrontation with laziness.

 

It also sounds more like Zen Buddhism or Taoism than Christianity. Especially in regard to how it focuses inward towards self reflection. Maybe you should check out Buddhism or Taoism? It is a lot more in line with your worldview and spiritual philosophy than Christianity is. Whatever it is you're practicing, it's not really Christianity and certainly isn't based on the philosophies of the Bible. Just seems to be a sort of Buddhism or Taoism philosophy with Jesus's name slapped on it in order to make it more appealing to westerners.

 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, Grace requires acts, it is not made up of happy thoughts. Jesus himself directly states this, and there's a reason the books after his death are called "Acts".

 

The sort of self centered laziness you're claiming is a part of your faith is not promoted by the Bible. In fact, the book directly admonishes such behavior.

 

A bunch of times the Bible directly disagrees with what you are saying:

 

Matthew 7:21: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

James 2:14: What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

James 1:23: For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

 

James 2:18: But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 
1 John 3:18: Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
 
Colossians 3: 23: Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.
 
2 Peter 1:5: For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

James 4:17: So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

 

1 Peter 1:13: Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 
James 1: 22: But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
 
Ephesians 6:10: Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ...
 
1 Timothy 6:18: They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
 
Daniel 11:32: He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action.

 

Titus 1:16: They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

 

Ecclesiates 9:10: Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

 

Matthew 7:20: Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

 

Proverbs 6:6: Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest.

 

Proverbs 3:28: Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

 

2 Chronicles 31:31: And every work that he undertook in the service of the house of God and in accordance with the law and the commandments, seeking his God, he did with all his heart, and prospered.

 

Luke 10:33: But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

 

Hebrews 6:11: And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 
Romans 12:6: Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
 

Matthew 20:28: What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go.

 

Proverbs 27:23: Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds,

 

Matthew 25:31: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

 

Psalm 146:6: Who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who keeps faith forever; who executes justice for the oppressed, who gives food to the hungry. The Lord sets the prisoners free; the Lord opens the eyes of the blind. The Lord lifts up those who are bowed down; the Lord loves the righteous.

 

John 21:15: When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”

 
Ezra 10:4: Arise, for it is your task, and we are with you; be strong and do it.
 

Matthew 7:24: Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.

 

Colossians 3:23: Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

2 Corinthians 9:8: And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

 

Isaiah 3:10: Tell the righteous that it shall be well with them, for they shall eat the fruit of their deeds.

 

2 Peter 1:10: Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

 

2 Thessalonians 3: 6: Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

 

Finally, the "Golden Rule", Jesus's only true commandment, directly contradicts your rather eastern sounding spiritual philosophy. Its entire basis is actions, not words.

 

Matthew 7:12: So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

 

You've got no leg to stand on in regard to what you're promoting as "Christian". It's actually at odds with pretty much everything about the religion's teachings.

 
Seriously, you're basically a Zen Buddhist who has swapped out Jesus's name for Buddha's. Even then, your philosophy would be considered somewhat lazy.
 
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On 2017-12-07 at 6:18 PM, PennySerenade said:

What about kids with cancer, or people who are so poor they live on a trash dump called Happy Land in the Philippines. They kind of have a sucky Earthly existence. 

 

 

Oh but don't you know, it's Gods will that their lives suck so much. He must have some reason for that

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1 hour ago, PennySerenade said:

I have. The Holy Spirit is good. 

Aaaw! Thank you! We never even knew you existed until you started stroking My ego like this. Much appreciated! You go, girl!

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50 minutes ago, The Holy Ghost said:

Aaaw! Thank you! We never even knew you existed until you started stroking My ego like this. Much appreciated! You go, girl!

This is how I know you are not the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost does not speak of Himself. 

 

Jesus says John 16:13-15 “Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth; for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore, said I, that He shall take of mine and show it unto you.”

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1 hour ago, ContraBardus said:

 

You seem to think a lot more of Saul than I do. He contradicted Jesus a lot, and adapted Christianity to the Romans rather than the other way around.

 

Anyway, even Galatians doesn't agree with you:

 

Galatians 6:1: Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load.

 

You're confusing pacifism and being passive in regard to confrontation with laziness.

 

It also sounds more like Zen Buddhism or Taoism than Christianity. Especially in regard to how it focuses inward towards self reflection. Maybe you should check out Buddhism or Taoism? It is a lot more in line with your worldview and spiritual philosophy than Christianity is. Whatever it is you're practicing, it's not really Christianity and certainly isn't based on the philosophies of the Bible. Just seems to be a sort of Buddhism or Taoism philosophy with Jesus's name slapped on it in order to make it more appealing to westerners.

 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, Grace requires acts, it is not made up of happy thoughts. Jesus himself directly states this, and there's a reason the books after his death are called "Acts".

 

The sort of self centered laziness you're claiming is a part of your faith is not promoted by the Bible. In fact, the book directly admonishes such behavior.

 

A bunch of times the Bible directly disagrees with what you are saying:

 

Matthew 7:21: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

James 2:14: What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

James 1:23: For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

 

James 2:18: But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 
1 John 3:18: Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
 
Colossians 3: 23: Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.
 
2 Peter 1:5: For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

James 4:17: So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

 

1 Peter 1:13: Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 
James 1: 22: But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
 
Ephesians 6:10: Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, ...
 
1 Timothy 6:18: They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
 
Daniel 11:32: He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action.

 

Titus 1:16: They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

 

Ecclesiates 9:10: Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

 

Matthew 7:20: Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

 

Proverbs 6:6: Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest.

 

Proverbs 3:28: Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

 

2 Chronicles 31:31: And every work that he undertook in the service of the house of God and in accordance with the law and the commandments, seeking his God, he did with all his heart, and prospered.

 

Luke 10:33: But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

 

Hebrews 6:11: And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 
Romans 12:6: Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
 

Matthew 20:28: What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go.

 

Proverbs 27:23: Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds,

 

Matthew 25:31: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

 

Psalm 146:6: Who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who keeps faith forever; who executes justice for the oppressed, who gives food to the hungry. The Lord sets the prisoners free; the Lord opens the eyes of the blind. The Lord lifts up those who are bowed down; the Lord loves the righteous.

 

John 21:15: When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.”

 
Ezra 10:4: Arise, for it is your task, and we are with you; be strong and do it.
 

Matthew 7:24: Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.

 

Colossians 3:23: Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

2 Corinthians 9:8: And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

 

Isaiah 3:10: Tell the righteous that it shall be well with them, for they shall eat the fruit of their deeds.

 

2 Peter 1:10: Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

 

2 Thessalonians 3: 6: Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

 

Finally, the "Golden Rule", Jesus's only true commandment, directly contradicts your rather eastern sounding spiritual philosophy. Its entire basis is actions, not words.

 

Matthew 7:12: So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

 

You've got no leg to stand on in regard to what you're promoting as "Christian". It's actually at odds with pretty much everything about the religion's teachings.

 
Seriously, you're basically a Zen Buddhist who has swapped out Jesus's name for Buddha's. Even then, your philosophy would be considered somewhat lazy.
 

Jesus was asked by His disciples what works they should do. This is what Jesus said: John 6: 28-37

 

”Then said they unto Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God?”

 

Such a great question! What are these works?

 

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.”

 

”They said therefore unto Him, What sign showest Thou then, that we may see and believe Thee? What dost Thou work?”

 

Hey! So, we don’t have to work? What are your credentials, Jesus?

 

”Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written He gave them bread from Heaven to eat.”

 

”Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from Heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from Heaven.”

 

”For the bread of God is He which cometh down from Heaven, and giveth life unto the world.”

 

”Then said they unto Him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.”

 

”And Jesus said unto them, I am the Bread of Life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

 

”But I said unto you, that ye have also seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I shall in no wise cast out.”

 

Works do not save nor keep salvation. Works are for growth, sanctification, rewards- in short being a good Christian as opposed to being a lazy one. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

 

You present a false dichotomy, a classic logical fallacy.  There are other choices.

Sure, I guess so. My point is, my faith is a harmless choice. I could have very easily fallen into substance abuse or promiscuity. These addictions are in my family. 

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7 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

Jesus was asked by His disciples what works they should do. This is what Jesus said: John 6: 28-37

 

”Then said they unto Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God?”

 

Such a great question! What are these works?

 

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.”

 

”They said therefore unto Him, What sign showest Thou then, that we may see and believe Thee? What dost Thou work?”

 

Hey! So, we don’t have to work? What are your credentials, Jesus?

 

”Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written He gave them bread from Heaven to eat.”

 

”Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from Heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from Heaven.”

 

”For the bread of God is He which cometh down from Heaven, and giveth life unto the world.”

 

”Then said they unto Him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.”

 

”And Jesus said unto them, I am the Bread of Life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

 

”But I said unto you, that ye have also seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I shall in no wise cast out.”

 

Works do not save nor keep salvation. Works are for growth, sanctification, rewards- in short being a good Christian as opposed to being a lazy one. 

 

 

 

You know, I actually do like Jesus as a character, but I don't know that I'd want to hang around him or anything. I don't believe for a moment that he was the son of God, and in fact the one in the Bible is likely nothing like the real man [if there was such a man at all, but that's another topic], but as a character in the Bible he was less dickish than most, but also a cheeky and sarcastic bastard with his apostles, who were comically inept and stupid at times. Pontius Pilate is another such character. There are actual contemporary writings about him from people who actually knew him and surviving Roman records regarding him, and how he acts in the Bible is definitely not how he would have really behaved.

 

Jesus was not without his flaws and was a very human character. Like the time he called the Cannanite woman a Dog. Which is not only a rather nasty insult culturally speaking, but was also something of a nasty racial slur regarding Gentiles at the time. A lot of apologists try to talk their way around this, jumping through all sorts of hoops, but Jesus was being a bit of a dick to someone he didn't view as an equal. He helped her, but not before he rubbed her face in the dirt and made her beg for it. That's not the only incident where he was less than divine, but it's a major one.

 

Anyway, the segment you've posted goes to show the contradictions in the Bible that have been previously mentioned, because most of the Bible says the opposite. That words and belief alone are not enough.

 

If you actually read this and understand the context of it, Jesus is basically teasing them for asking for specific things to do that would provide them favor with God. They were essentially asking for a shortcut or something easy they could do over and over that would make God like them. Here, Jesus is telling them that's not how it works.

 

Mostly the Bible rectifies this by way of directly tying faith to works. A true believer will act, where as a false one will only speak or even stand aside and do nothing. A false believer will misunderstand teachings like "turn the other cheek" and take that as permission to do nothing at all, when it doesn't really mean anything of the sort.

 

You seem to be trying your best to separate faith from acts to justify your beliefs about being passive and doing little or nothing.

 

What you posted here is a perfect example of cherry picking to justify yourself rather than actually adhering to what the book actually says.

 

You should really look into Eastern Religions, it seems like a much better fit for your philosophy. When I said that you've basically taken Taoism and Buddhism and have just slapped a Jesus sticker over the face of Buddha, I wasn't kidding.

 

Also, I do question whether or not such beliefs are really "harmless". Faith is often used to make major life decisions, and faith based on falsehoods creates a faulty world view that can lead to many poor decisions in life and bad reasoning that can have a negative impact on someone's life overall.

 

Also, a passive mindset where someone doesn't question anything has a severely negative impact on critical thinking skills. Making people vulnerable to manipulation and getting scammed. This is how televangelist make their living.

 

Just because it's not as severe as getting addicted to drugs, doesn't mean it's good for you. Cigarettes don't have the immediate negative impact on someone's health that heroine does, it can take decades before any negative health issues arise due to smoking, but that doesn't make them good for you either.

 

I also find it very telling that you'd use extreme examples such as substance abuse in regard to not having faith. I've met quite a few junkies, worked with a few, and have done some volunteer work that put me in contact with them, and all of them talked about God and Jesus constantly. Never have I met any other group who would ask me if I've been "saved" more often.

 

I also fail to see what exactly is wrong with being "promiscuous" on it's own, or what it has to do with being religious or not. It can be done responsibly and safely, doesn't necessarily mean not ever having a long term relationship in which one is faithful, and doesn't even really mean sleeping with anyone who is willing. It just means having sexual relations with more than one person over a period of time. Most people who are not in a relationship and actively trying to find one are somewhat promiscuous.

 

In fact, studies have shown that being highly religious causes a lack of proper sex education and contraception use, and the general stigma of anything sexual actually leads to more teen pregnancies, increases the spread of STDs, and puts more young people at risk. All of these things have much lower rates among the non-religious because they aren't so ignorant about or ashamed of their sexuality.

 

There's plenty of harm that can be caused by religion. Just because you aren't living at the bottom of societies barrel, doesn't mean it hasn't had a negative impact on you. The way you tried to tie a lack of faith to drug use and basically prostitution makes it pretty clear that it's feeding your ignorance at the least, and that's not a good thing.

 

An "at least I'm not..." attitude doesn't really justify or excuse other bad things.

 

If a rapist and murderer says "at least I don't eat my victims" it doesn't negate the negative impact of raping and murdering people. The fact that something is not worse than it is doesn't make it any better than it is either.

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12 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

I think you will go to Hell, but will believe in Hell and be rescued. I think it is purgative. 

 

See, in my mind, that makes god an abuser. He demands I believe in him and all that entails (worship, etc...) or I will be subjected to horrific punishment. In human law, this is called extortion and we send people to prison for it. Real love is freely given. The kind of love god demands comes under the veil of threat. Christians like to say he gives people a choice, but this isn't a real choice just like Vito Corleone didn't give the movie producer a real choice when he put a gun to his head and told him to sign a contract. 

You might even argue that you've freely chosen, but you still are left to contend with the rest of us who are not given that free choice and that speaks directly to the character of your god. 

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