Jump to content

Which Christian Behaviors Most Annoy Atheists?


Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, Margee said:

I have to say that Penny was one of the nicest believers I have seen in a while. ......However, she asked me to delete her membership and said this to me: ''I think everyone treated me very well here. I feel kind of ashamed that I could not debate better, but like I told him, (and the board) I am neither an apologist nor a theologian. Debating is not my strong suit, and my beliefs are evolving.''

 

She came on here for one reason only and that was to satisfy a friendship. She is not going to budge in her beliefs, nor is he. I told her to go meet a nice believer. The 'yokes'  don't work.

 

Well....that was fun.........

 

She debated better than she gave herself credit, I'm thinking.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 402
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Because he/she gets to escape the terrifying doctrine, myth and belief in hellfire that each and every one of us had to break free from. She gets to believe in the magical sky god that is 'all love''

See, in my mind, that makes god an abuser. He demands I believe in him and all that entails (worship, etc...) or I will be subjected to horrific punishment. In human law, this is called extortion and

Hi, Penny. I think it's cool of you to sign up because your friend asked you to, that's already way more decent of you than some friend responses many of us have experienced. Of course if it's your "w

 

13 hours ago, ContraBardus said:

This is a fluff article and its only purpose is to pat people on the head and say "It's okay, your delusion is special and doesn't count. So don't feel bad about it."

 

You are fluff. :)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ContraBardus said:

It might be worth pointing out that one does not have to become an Atheist to leave Christianity, or any organized religion really.

 

You don't have to bounce from one religion to another to keep spirituality. Spiritualism doesn't really need an organization.

 

Deism is a thing, as is Agnosticism, Ignosticism, informal paganism, humanism, or whatever. There are even forms of Buddhism that don't believe in Gods but still have spiritual elements.

 

I'm not claiming I personally believe in any of that. I think all of it is crap, I'm just pointing out that Atheism is just one possible outcome and pretty much the most extreme possibility.

 

This is not an everything or nothing situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. OMG! I agree with you. LoL.

 

IMO, it's the 'organization' that will mess up someone's head. Rabid church wankers quoting scripture at me was unhealthy because I was taught by my parents that church people are generally rabid wankers.

 

I like paganism (I'm delusional, yes) occasionally,  but on my own terms. I don't want to have corporate church belief because it's not really spirituality , it's just following someone elses protocol. (my 2 cents)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all! I would like to showcase why I am Christian , and why I choose to believe in Christianity -- especially  with brushing over some heavy verses in the Bible and not thinking about it too hard.

 

This discussion asserts that God is a delusion. I would hate if people viewing this discussion go away believing that it is your moral obligation to cure delusions in other people (in fact, I think as bad as unsolicited evangelizing!). The discussion brought up two analogies for delusions  that others enforce. 1) If you are a kid who believes in fairy tales, your parents will encourage you to keep believing. This comes with the understanding that the kid will realize that fairy tales are not true on his/her own, and stop believing, and it would be socially unacceptable as an adult. I would care to say that it IS socially acceptable to believe in God when you are an adult.

2) If you are with Alzheimer, your family may just go along with your stories. This is because everyone knows you are delusioned, but it makes everyone's lives easier, instead of constantly telling gramma, "No you were not an ice-skating queen when you were younger" every time you get together. 

 

I would like to bring up the side of society that struggles with alcoholism, and struggles with the Twelve Step Program that has been forwarded by Alcoholics Anonymous. I lovingly recreate the list below:

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The twelve step program works for many people (antidotal evidence), but cannot be proven WHY it works. The twelve steps have been adapted to other behavioral addictions, such as Gambling Addiction, and Drug Abuse, and Codependency.

 

Hello, I’m Henry, I am codependent. I became saved (Christian) when I realized that every step after 1 reads “Believe in God; lean on God; pray to God.” I had the euphoric experience of accepting Christ as my Savior that ContaBardus called out as experiential evidence on page 12. He implied how this was not based in logic, and therefore untrue, to the point of me thinking, "Is your personal God logic? Does everything you do in this world have to be logic based, or can you "go with your gut" once in a while?" When I accepted Christ, the Holy Spirit entered my soul. I was able to actually get rest when I slept that night. I could actually participate and feel GOOD about life. More long term, I no longer had use for my anti-anxiety medication, which I had tried unsuccessfully to wean off of several times earlier.

 

Accepting your own personal God because He loves unconditionally is a good thing, in my book. No one in life is able to give  unconditional love. Yet I always needed it to feel good about myself. Now that I know my God loves me, I can treat myself nicely in my thoughts. He protects me from myself, when I try to rip myself apart after every perceived mistake. Accepting your own personal God because He has a plan that makes you come out ahead, even when it does not seem so now, is a good thing, in my book. I am an ENFP (Myer's-Briggs personality type). Thus, every single action I take needs to have meaning behind it. I can't bear that my mother's death was just a statistic. I need it to mean something. I can't bear that getting cut-off in traffic just happens. I need it to mean something. I can't bear the uncertainty that comes with living and trying to achieve goals, without knowing that it's in God's plan if I succeed or fail.

 

The chief reason I choose Christianity among all the religions is because of its promise of a personal relationship with God/Jesus. He gave His only begotten son for my sins. He will help me personally if I pray to Him for strength. I am not just a loyal cog in His wheel. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, basicResearcher said:

Snipped for length...

 

Yeah, no. This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread and is completely off topic, unless you're trying to provide an example of annoying things that Christians do.

 

You're also right, it is anecdote, and anecdotes are useless as data. It doesn't matter how many anecdotes you have, because the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

Actual evidence shows that 12 step programs fudge their success rate numbers and are deliberately deceitful about it. Peer review studies show their success rates are considerably lower, around the same as estimates for those who just quit on their own. [5-10%] 12 step programs are notoriously shady about reporting their numbers, in many of their practices, and how effective their 'treatment methods' really are.

 

Anyway...

 

MgM6yFQ.jpg

 

Nope. We have a specific section for this kind of debate, two of them in fact. One is for more formal discussion in line with a formal debate, and another for a more informal argument. This thread just kind of naturally went that way over time and still managed to stay somewhat related to the topic despite it, so it's kind of an unusual exception.

 

If you're looking for a discussion then go to the Lion's Den [informal] or Colosseum [formal] areas and start a thread there, as this is exactly why they exist. This thread has kind of run its course, so I suggest hopping over there if you're really interested in having this kind of conversation with members of these forums. 

 

ToT is the last place you want to be if you're really looking for serious responses anyway. We don't really do proselytizing or religious debate in the ToT area. It kind of exists as a space to get away from that sort of thing on these forums.

 

Fair warning... 

 

luke.gif?w=555&h=222

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

*wanders off to the lions den to see if basicresearcher has left anything of substance there.*

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, basicResearcher said:

Hello all! I would like to showcase why I am Christian , and why I choose to believe in Christianity -- especially  with brushing over some heavy verses in the Bible and not thinking about it too hard.

 

This discussion asserts that God is a delusion. I would hate if people viewing this discussion go away believing that it is your moral obligation to cure delusions in other people (in fact, I think as bad as unsolicited evangelizing!). The discussion brought up two analogies for delusions  that others enforce. 1) If you are a kid who believes in fairy tales, your parents will encourage you to keep believing. This comes with the understanding that the kid will realize that fairy tales are not true on his/her own, and stop believing, and it would be socially unacceptable as an adult. I would care to say that it IS socially acceptable to believe in God when you are an adult.

2) If you are with Alzheimer, your family may just go along with your stories. This is because everyone knows you are delusioned, but it makes everyone's lives easier, instead of constantly telling gramma, "No you were not an ice-skating queen when you were younger" every time you get together. 

 

I would like to bring up the side of society that struggles with alcoholism, and struggles with the Twelve Step Program that has been forwarded by Alcoholics Anonymous. I lovingly recreate the list below:

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The twelve step program works for many people (antidotal evidence), but cannot be proven WHY it works. The twelve steps have been adapted to other behavioral addictions, such as Gambling Addiction, and Drug Abuse, and Codependency.

 

Hello, I’m Henry, I am codependent. I became saved (Christian) when I realized that every step after 1 reads “Believe in God; lean on God; pray to God.” I had the euphoric experience of accepting Christ as my Savior that ContaBardus called out as experiential evidence on page 12. He implied how this was not based in logic, and therefore untrue, to the point of me thinking, "Is your personal God logic? Does everything you do in this world have to be logic based, or can you "go with your gut" once in a while?" When I accepted Christ, the Holy Spirit entered my soul. I was able to actually get rest when I slept that night. I could actually participate and feel GOOD about life. More long term, I no longer had use for my anti-anxiety medication, which I had tried unsuccessfully to wean off of several times earlier.

 

Accepting your own personal God because He loves unconditionally is a good thing, in my book. No one in life is able to give  unconditional love. Yet I always needed it to feel good about myself. Now that I know my God loves me, I can treat myself nicely in my thoughts. He protects me from myself, when I try to rip myself apart after every perceived mistake. Accepting your own personal God because He has a plan that makes you come out ahead, even when it does not seem so now, is a good thing, in my book. I am an ENFP (Myer's-Briggs personality type). Thus, every single action I take needs to have meaning behind it. I can't bear that my mother's death was just a statistic. I need it to mean something. I can't bear that getting cut-off in traffic just happens. I need it to mean something. I can't bear the uncertainty that comes with living and trying to achieve goals, without knowing that it's in God's plan if I succeed or fail.

 

The chief reason I choose Christianity among all the religions is because of its promise of a personal relationship with God/Jesus. He gave His only begotten son for my sins. He will help me personally if I pray to Him for strength. I am not just a loyal cog in His wheel. 

You know that god doesn't need you to save me, he can do that all on his own.

Also no one can convince anyone of gods presence other than god, so why bother.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator
3 hours ago, basicResearcher said:

Hello all!    < snipped for annoying, off-topic blathering >

 

Well that was super-annoying, so thanks for the example.  However if you want to continue posting at Ex-C, in the future please confine that type of comment to The Lion's Den. Thank you for your cooperation.  Thou shalt not attempt to proselytize, evangelize, or explain your religion anywhere at Ex-Christian.net except in The Lion's Den.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, thanks for correcting me. It seemed as if this discussion derailed into Penny defending his/her form of Christianity around page eight, so I thought this would be a perfect thread to interject. 

And LogicalFallacy, I will probably not be posting again anywhere. I'm here to enjoy reading the debates, not debate myself. (:P)

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, basicResearcher said:

 I'm here to enjoy reading the debates, not debate myself. (:P)

Perhaps you should try debating yourself. You might find yourself back here anyway...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator
3 hours ago, basicResearcher said:

Alright, thanks for correcting me. It seemed as if this discussion derailed into Penny defending his/her form of Christianity around page eight, so I thought this would be a perfect thread to interject. 

And LogicalFallacy, I will probably not be posting again anywhere. I'm here to enjoy reading the debates, not debate myself. (:P)

 

Yeah, you know how God grants dispensations of grace? We all had a soft heart for Penny so did the same. Don't apply to every Christian that wants to wander in and join the party.

 

Eh... well um, lets see debates.... ahhhh End3 sadly is dealing with family issues, Penny has taken off, sadly cause she seemed sweet, and Ironhorse is in the Lions Den trying to convince himself that what he believes is correct. I'm not sure you'd call those debates...?

 

The best debates here are between the Ex-C members, either when they are discussion various other topics, or like LB and DB did a debate where DB kindly took the position of a theist. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator

I had a beautiful Catholic lady in my shop yesterday. I've known her for a long time and she is the most wonderful 'do-gooder'. You could not help but love her. She knows that I lost my faith. We got talking yesterday and she explained to me that she couldn't hear what I had to say because she totally understood all my reasons for questioning god. But she also told me that she absolutely had to hold on to her faith or she would die. She told me she wouldn't be able to make it here on earth without believing in god. She is purposely putting on the 'horse blinders' and can't even look at the destruction of the Catholic church. All she said is she thought those priests were terrible. She knows nothing about the bible.

 

She has to have god in her life. I told her I understood. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Margee said:

I had a beautiful Catholic lady in my shop yesterday. I've known her for a long time and she is the most wonderful 'do-gooder'. You could not help but love her. She knows that I lost my faith. We got talking yesterday and she explained to me that she couldn't hear what I had to say because she totally understood all my reasons for questioning god. But she also told me that she absolutely had to hold on to her faith or she would die. She told me she wouldn't be able to make it here on earth without believing in god. She is purposely putting on the 'horse blinders' and can't even look at the destruction of the Catholic church. All she said is she thought those priests were terrible. She knows nothing about the bible.

 

She has to have god in her life. I told her I understood. 

 

I find that sad. It's not a judgement. It's just sad that life is so awful to someone that they need to hide behind an alternative reality to survive it.  I also can't help but think that surely she could find, if she were willing to try, a healthier perspective. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, basicResearcher said:

I would like to bring up the side of society that struggles with alcoholism, and struggles with the Twelve Step Program that has been forwarded by Alcoholics Anonymous. I lovingly recreate the list below:

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The twelve step program works for many people (antidotal evidence), but cannot be proven WHY it works. The twelve steps have been adapted to other behavioral addictions, such as Gambling Addiction, and Drug Abuse, and Codependency.

 

 

 

https://www.orange-papers.info/

 

One of the take-aways from the orange-papers was that people tend to attribute successfully stopping an addiction to whatever 'program' or 'method' they used last when usually they were just 'ready' to quit. They had had enough of their addiction so any method would have worked.

 

Now what if "God as I understand him" means "I understand him to be imaginary" ? Will it still work?

Does Allah work for Muslims?

Does Krishna work for Hindus?

Zeus? Thor?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Does Basic have another thread going in the den or can this thread be moved there?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator

^^ Hmmmmm.... I don't think Basic has posted anything in the Den.  The OP (Penny) is no longer around and IMO this thread has turned too christiany for ToT,  so off to The Lion's Den with it.  :magic:

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Margee said:

I had a beautiful Catholic lady in my shop yesterday. I've known her for a long time and she is the most wonderful 'do-gooder'. You could not help but love her. She knows that I lost my faith. We got talking yesterday and she explained to me that she couldn't hear what I had to say because she totally understood all my reasons for questioning god. But she also told me that she absolutely had to hold on to her faith or she would die. She told me she wouldn't be able to make it here on earth without believing in god. She is purposely putting on the 'horse blinders' and can't even look at the destruction of the Catholic church. All she said is she thought those priests were terrible. She knows nothing about the bible.

 

She has to have god in her life. I told her I understood. 

Intrigument

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was reading the Bible today, and I don't see the 12 steps in there. Nothing about claiming you're powerless over your addiction. It seems god of the Bible thinks we are all responsible for our behavior and must repent. Also I haven't found anyplace where it says that any high-power you pick is OK with god. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, basicResearcher said:

Alright, thanks for correcting me. It seemed as if this discussion derailed into Penny defending his/her form of Christianity around page eight, so I thought this would be a perfect thread to interject. 

And LogicalFallacy, I will probably not be posting again anywhere. I'm here to enjoy reading the debates, not debate myself. (:P)

 

You state (located to the left of each post you make) that you are interested in "Theological Debates" and that is "why I am here".  Here you say you are only here to "enjoy" reading debates and are not interested in or willing to enter debates yourself.  Yet your broadcasted the short version of your religious life story conveniently adding typical Christian dogma.  

 

Yes, it's probably best if you do not post anymore on this forum.  It would likely interfere with your "research".

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

You state (located to the left of each post you make) that you are interested in "Theological Debates" and that is "why I am here".  Here you say you are only here to "enjoy" reading debates and are not interested in or willing to enter debates yourself.  Yet your broadcasted the short version of your religious life story conveniently adding typical Christian dogma.  

 

A two-faced Christian? Whodathunkit? ;)

 

13 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

Yes, it's probably best if you do not post anymore on this forum.  It would likely interfere with your "research".

 

On a positive note, at least he admitted that his so-called "research" is rather basic. It clearly has no depth.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/15/2017 at 6:25 PM, basicResearcher said:

I would like to bring up the side of society that struggles with alcoholism, and struggles with the Twelve Step Program that has been forwarded by Alcoholics Anonymous. I lovingly recreate the list below:

  1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
  2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
  3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
  4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
  5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
  6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
  7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
  8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
  9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
  10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
  11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
  12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The twelve step program works for many people (antidotal evidence), but cannot be proven WHY it works. The twelve steps have been adapted to other behavioral addictions, such as Gambling Addiction, and Drug Abuse, and Codependency.

 

For me, the list fails at point #1, because everything I've achieved in my life is a direct result of taking responsibility, challenging my own weaknesses and conquering them.  No matter how powerless you think you are, you will not make any genuine inroads until you claim your power and use it, rather than expecting help from a supernatural source.

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator
3 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

For me, the list fails at point #1, because everything I've achieved in my life is a direct result of taking responsibility, challenging my own weaknesses and conquering them.  

 

Pure gold that statement. The key word for me (bolded) is responsibility. Far too little of it these days.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

     What if I understand "god" to be a man-made mythical creature?  It seems odd, if not downright crazy, to expect a total fiction to be helpful in any sort of way.

 

     If the argument here is that the twelve steps have submission to god in them and boy are they successful (they're not as has been pointed out) then that would mean slapping submission to god on anything should make it the best of the best all the time.  So Islam?

 

          mwc

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator

The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous invites us to believe that at the root of all our problems is self-centered pride and arrogance.

 

The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous also invites us to believe that "we will suddenly realize that god is doing for us the things we could not do for ourselves."

 

In other words, the same god who never lifted a finger to stop the suffering of 10-year-old girls in Bosnian rape camps cares so much about ME that he's going to reach down from heaven just to make sure I don't have one too many mint mojitos.

 

Could anything be more self-centered or arrogant?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2017 at 7:38 AM, Margee said:

I had a beautiful Catholic lady in my shop yesterday. I've known her for a long time and she is the most wonderful 'do-gooder'. You could not help but love her. She knows that I lost my faith. We got talking yesterday and she explained to me that she couldn't hear what I had to say because she totally understood all my reasons for questioning god. But she also told me that she absolutely had to hold on to her faith or she would die. She told me she wouldn't be able to make it here on earth without believing in god. She is purposely putting on the 'horse blinders' and can't even look at the destruction of the Catholic church. All she said is she thought those priests were terrible. She knows nothing about the bible.

 

She has to have god in her life. I told her I understood. 

On some level, I understand this. And I understand because I remember how impossible it felt at the beginning of my deconversion (at least for a little bit there) that there would be no heaven, and that suffering in this world wouldn't be rewarded in the next one. It seemed unfair somehow. But honestly, I think people who hold on to this view just can't seem to empathize with all the suffering of those around them in the world - how could you look at that, and think that God does nothing to help them? I find it truly bizarre that Christians can on one hand hold a great deal of empathy for the suffering in the world, (well, some of them; I've seen enough to know some of them only profess to care) and wear complete blinders while doing so in regards to who they truly believe has willed that suffering and does nothing to relieve it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.