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Which Christian Behaviors Most Annoy Atheists?

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30 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Thanks very much for your answer. I figured this was the case. Weirdly, when I try to drop the subjects of God and Christianity, this is all he wants to talk about- when I would be happy to agree to disagree. He seems to be hell bent on proving me wrong, for whatever reason. Pun is intentional. 

 

 

Is he new to being an Atheist?

 

This is something a lot of us kind of grow out of after a while.

 

Some people see argument as validation, and others, much like Christians, seek to "save" others from what they view as potentially harmful delusions.

 

I went through a phase of being argumentative for a while, but it got old and I got over it. In my experience, most Atheists go through this. Some never quite manage, but that's not all that common really.

 

I don't even really see myself as an Atheist anymore. I did identify that way for a while, but now I call myself Ignostic. I refuse to discuss the existence of God unless the term is clearly defined.

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Just now, ContraBardus said:

 

Is he new to being an Atheist?

 

This is something a lot of us kind of grow out of after a while.

 

Some people see argument as validation, and others, much like Christians, seek to "save" others from what they view as potentially harmful delusions.

 

I went through a phase of being argumentative for a while, but it got old and I got over it. In my experience, most Atheists go through this. Some never quite manage, but that's not all that common really.

 

I don't even really see myself as an Atheist anymore. I did identify that way for a while, but now I call myself Ignostic. I refuse to discuss the existence of God unless the term is clearly defined.

Yes, he is new to atheism. I believe he was a Deist before he lost his faith in God. That is probably the correct assessment- wanting to share the truth of what you believe, or rather disbelieve, with others. Thanks very much for your answer. 

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2 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Ah, so you are interested in de converting me? 

No one can de-convert you. If I could do that then you'd be self reliant on me and what I say, It wouldn't be a real de- conversion.

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29 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Yes, I think so. It is jamming one's beliefs onto another. I can not agree that all evangelism is objectionable. If two people are close friends, and one asks about the other's faith, and how it came to be- that is not objectionable in my mind. The beating one over the head with a Bible is objectionable. I am not sure if this is what you meant. 

 

In your example that's not evangelism - your friend has asked about your faith and you are responding. Evangelism by definition is unsolicited preaching. Its the case of the person standing on the street corner yelling about Jesus - I can't help but hear him, or the people coming up to my house uninvited. That's what we mean when we find evangelism objectionable.

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15 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

I did not know Carlin prayed, that is rather amusing- an atheist praying. 

He didn't. He was joking about Sunday being Gods day of rest, but that's when most Christians are praying to God.

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21 minutes ago, primaryzero said:

No one can de-convert you. If I could do that then you'd be self reliant on me and what I say, It wouldn't be a real de- conversion.

 

Here's a quote I like relating to that:

 

"The fastest way to deconvert from Christianity is to actually read the Bible from cover to cover like any other book."

 

The absurdities in it become much more apparent that way, and it promotes some pretty horrible morals. Not all of it is bad, but if you're thinking of it as infallible or the word of God it can be pretty jarring. Services tend to only pick out specific parts, and there are parts of it you'll never hear when going to church.

 

I'd take caution with that if you're a happy Christian. Deconversion can be involuntary. Contrary to what a lot of Christians believe, belief or a lack of it is not necessarily a choice. It can be a hard blow to someone with faith to suddenly realize they don't believe anymore, and it's not something you can just shove back into the box once it's out.

 

Look at it this way... Do you really think that you could choose to believe in Santa Claus again as an adult?

 

I mean, once you know the "secret" behind it, could you really convince yourself to believe what you did as a child again, and that there is a jolly old man living at the north pole who flies around the world with magic flying reindeer to give children presents? Could you really make yourself believe that was true?

 

A lot of Christians think they can argue or convince Atheists into belief again, or that they simply don't want to believe anymore. That's not really how it works.

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     It's that time of year when we all traditionally choose to believe in Santa.

 

          mwc

 

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2 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

 

Here's a quote I like relating to that:

 

"The fastest way to deconvert from Christianity is to actually read the Bible from cover to cover like any other book."

 

The absurdities in it become much more apparent that way. Services tend to only pick out specific parts, and there are parts of it you'll never hear going to church.

 

I'd take caution with that. Deconversion can be involuntary. Contrary to what a lot of Christians believe, belief or a lack of it is not necessarily a choice. It can be a hard blow to someone with faith to suddenly realize they don't believe anymore, and it's not something you can just shove back into the box once you're there.

 

Look at it this way, do you really think that you could choose to believe in Santa Claus again as an adult?

 

I mean, once you know the "secret" behind it, could you really convince yourself to believe what you did as a child again, and that there is a jolly old man living at the north pole who flies around the world with magic flying reindeer to give children presents? Could you really make yourself believe that was true?

 

A lot of Christians think they can argue or convince Atheists into belief again, or that they simply don't want to believe anymore. That's not really how it works.

Yeah there's so much to de-conversion. But I think you de-convert from a lot of other nonsensical human ideas in the process.

 

Like cleaning house.

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Just now, primaryzero said:

Yeah there's so much to de-conversion. But I think you de-convert from a lot of other nonsensical human ideas in the process.

 

Like cleaning house.

 

True, but I wasn't arguing for or against it.

 

Just pointing out that deconversion is a bit like Pandora's Box.

 

Once you're there, you might not have a choice about turning back. So it's not something to take lightly.

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Their tendency to believe that because they can't understand morality without skydaddy then nobody else can and therefore all atheists must be evil hedonists.

 

It's annoying not just because it's false, but because it's obviously false. If I lived in a world where some people could fly and I couldn't, would I deny the existence of flight just because of my own inability? Of course not, that would be completely stupid and contrary to the reality in front of me. And yet, this reality denial is exactly what Christians are doing. Despite the existence of plenty of atheists who are living ethical lives right out in the open, fundies continue their asinine claim that they have a monopoly on being "good". They don't want to admit that they simply can't wrap their heads around the concept of post conventional morality, so instead they deny that post conventional morality exists. Ridiculous.

 

 

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Something not yet mentioned is the notion some Christians have that atheism is a set of beliefs. I have been asked, “Well, what do you believe?” as if the “ism” in atheism represents some line of philosophical thought or an alternate religion. The questioners could not seem to understand that “atheism” is merely the disbelief in a deity; it is not a moral code or something on the other side of an ideological teeter-totter.

 

1 minute ago, Jedah said:

Their tendency to believe that because they can't understand morality without skydaddy then nobody else can and therefore all atheists must be evil hedonists.

....

 

 

And this is one of the reasons I don’t care for the term “atheist.” It’s a label that is too often used as a pejorative. I prefer to simply say that I’m not religious, or that I don’t believe in gods or spirits. If the conversation continues and I’m asked, “What do you believe,” I say that I believe in the inherent goodness of man. Sometimes I’ll say that I don’t have “beliefs,” which I define as notions that cannot be supported by fact. My world view does not involve “beliefs” but rather truths which can be proven by independently verified observation.

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1 hour ago, older said:

Something not yet mentioned is the notion some Christians have that atheism is a set of beliefs. I have been asked, “Well, what do you believe?” as if the “ism” in atheism represents some line of philosophical thought or an alternate religion. The questioners could not seem to understand that “atheism” is merely the disbelief in a deity; it is not a moral code or something on the other side of an ideological teeter-totter.

 

 

And this is one of the reasons I don’t care for the term “atheist.” It’s a label that is too often used as a pejorative. I prefer to simply say that I’m not religious, or that I don’t believe in gods or spirits. If the conversation continues and I’m asked, “What do you believe,” I say that I believe in the inherent goodness of man. Sometimes I’ll say that I don’t have “beliefs,” which I define as notions that cannot be supported by fact. My world view does not involve “beliefs” but rather truths which can be proven by independently verified observation.

 

I'd call that facts not truths.

 

Truth is a philosophical term relating more to honesty and belief and is relative, facts are supported by evidence and can be verified. Truth is something you can argue, facts are something you can prove.

 

Also, yes to the point that Atheism isn't a belief system, it's a lack of one.

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8 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

Oh, so if someone prays to lose weight, but does not exercise? 

 

That's one. I can think of another that is much more annoying. When when someone needs help, those who don't want to actually do anything tangible but want to get credit for being seen as helpful pipe in and say they are praying.

 

Another related one is when a slew of people jump in with their prayers after a tragedy strikes. If god didn't stop the tragedy from happening, what's he going to do after people are already dead and injured that is useful? 

Same goes with the 1 survivor. People pile on and say 'wow, god was really looking out for you, you're so blessed!' What about the other 99? Strange how god blesses at the same rate as random probability, yet he gets credit for doing good and no credit at all for allowing messed up things to happen in the first place. 

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9 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

As to laws and Christianity, what if they happen to coincide? For example, I think murder is universally looked upon as something to outlaw, whether Christian or non Christian. There is some overlapping, I do believe. 

The overlapping happens because of ancient cultures and how their laws, historical accounts, or fables are interpreted over time. Look up The Golden Rule and find it's roots (a law of reciprocity, which first known recording was in ancient Egypt). Most(All? I'm not sure) religious texts "steal" from historical stories, like Noah's flood. Find the root of some of the stories in the Bible and you can see that god wasn't speaking to anyone, a man wrote the stories and he didn't hear about them from god, he more than likely heard or read some other stories from history and used that as a base to write another story and that version was used in the Bible.

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In response to the posting of a funny video that happens to be Christian, I find that irrelevant if it's funny. I still love Tim Hawkins, who's a Christian, that doesn't change comical content. This Christian is representing the stereotype in a relatively accurate way. Christians can laugh because they acknowledge it's true, and we all collectively used to believe that stuff so we can still find it funny. We just don't do it anymore lol.

 

Another thing that's interesting about evangelizing is I never wanted to do it as a Christian. It was just uncomfortable and I thought God was mad at me when I "passed up an opportunity." Now I want to scream "EDUCATE YOURSELVES" from the mountain tops. That's all I want. I want to have discussions where people are familiar with both sides, not spend all my time rolling my eyes because a Christian doesn't get it. I know for me personally (and just about everyone I know who is a Christian), I spent ALL MY TIME learning how to defend my own points that I never listened to the other side and gave a fair assessment of both. As soon as I did, my faith was toast. I lost it kicking and screaming too, it's a very courageous thing to look hell in the face and say "you don't scare me."

 

11 hours ago, older said:

Something not yet mentioned is the notion some Christians have that atheism is a set of beliefs. I have been asked, “Well, what do you believe?” as if the “ism” in atheism represents some line of philosophical thought or an alternate religion. The questioners could not seem to understand that “atheism” is merely the disbelief in a deity; it is not a moral code or something on the other side of an ideological teeter-totter.

 

 

And this is one of the reasons I don’t care for the term “atheist.” It’s a label that is too often used as a pejorative. I prefer to simply say that I’m not religious, or that I don’t believe in gods or spirits. If the conversation continues and I’m asked, “What do you believe,” I say that I believe in the inherent goodness of man. Sometimes I’ll say that I don’t have “beliefs,” which I define as notions that cannot be supported by fact. My world view does not involve “beliefs” but rather truths which can be proven by independently verified observation.

 

Sam Harris did a really good job of discussing this, I saw it on Youtube. He talked about how "you and I, as a-astrologers" won't necessarily still agree on much. Any few people who are not convinced of the existence of god do not necessarily hold to the same values.

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On 11/30/2017 at 7:05 AM, Ann said:

The overlapping happens because of ancient cultures and how their laws, historical accounts, or fables are interpreted over time. Look up The Golden Rule and find it's roots (a law of reciprocity, which first known recording was in ancient Egypt). Most(All? I'm not sure) religious texts "steal" from historical stories, like Noah's flood. Find the root of some of the stories in the Bible and you can see that god wasn't speaking to anyone, a man wrote the stories and he didn't hear about them from god, he more than likely heard or read some other stories from history and used that as a base to write another story and that version was used in the Bible.

 

I also think it's interesting that this "don't murder" bit happens to be more of a Western ideal as opposed to objective moral truth...which incidentally overlaps with one of the main Western faiths. 

 

Objective morality doesn't hold a candle to the weird shit that some indigenous tribes still do as a tradition today, stuff that would shock Western Civilization. This notion that everyone has "don't murder" written on their hearts by Yahweh is ridiculous, because there are plenty of people who murder, both individually and as collective groups and even tribes/cultures. The majority choose social compliance lol, "morality" is all about what you've been socialized to view as acceptable and unacceptable. Christian values have certainly had an impact on that.

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1 hour ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

....

 

This notion that everyone has "don't murder" written on their hearts by Yahweh is ridiculous, because there are plenty of people who murder, both individually and as collective groups and even tribes/cultures.

....

 

I seem to recall that the most powerful tribe on the planet recently did just that in Iraq.

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10 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

In response to the posting of a funny video that happens to be Christian, I find that irrelevant if it's funny. I still love Tim Hawkins, who's a Christian, that doesn't change comical content. This Christian is representing the stereotype in a relatively accurate way. Christians can laugh because they acknowledge it's true, and we all collectively used to believe that stuff so we can still find it funny. We just don't do it anymore lol.

 

Another thing that's interesting about evangelizing is I never wanted to do it as a Christian. It was just uncomfortable and I thought God was mad at me when I "passed up an opportunity." Now I want to scream "EDUCATE YOURSELVES" from the mountain tops. That's all I want. I want to have discussions where people are familiar with both sides, not spend all my time rolling my eyes because a Christian doesn't get it. I know for me personally (and just about everyone I know who is a Christian), I spent ALL MY TIME learning how to defend my own points that I never listened to the other side and gave a fair assessment of both. As soon as I did, my faith was toast. I lost it kicking and screaming too, it's a very courageous thing to look hell in the face and say "you don't scare me."

 

 

Sam Harris did a really good job of discussing this, I saw it on Youtube. He talked about how "you and I, as a-astrologers" won't necessarily still agree on much. Any few people who are not convinced of the existence of god do not necessarily hold to the same values.

 

Christians don't necessarily hold the same values either. Not even within denominations.

 

That's just humans in general really.

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13 hours ago, ContraBardus said:

 

Christians don't necessarily hold the same values either. Not even within denominations.

 

That's just humans in general really.

 

Wow, that's an amazing point that I blindly did not consider lol. The simplicity of this response blew my mind (considering I should have thought about this lol) will work great next time my family wants to talk about "us atheists".

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On 11/29/2017 at 9:19 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

In your example that's not evangelism - your friend has asked about your faith and you are responding. Evangelism by definition is unsolicited preaching. Its the case of the person standing on the street corner yelling about Jesus - I can't help but hear him, or the people coming up to my house uninvited. That's what we mean when we find evangelism objectionable.

I am not a fan of unsolicited evangelism, either. In my example, it is evangelism- but a sort of personal evangelism. 

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On 11/29/2017 at 9:23 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

He didn't. He was joking about Sunday being Gods day of rest, but that's when most Christians are praying to God.

The Christians I know pray every day- multiple times a day. This is the reason why I did not understand the joke. 

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On 11/29/2017 at 9:53 PM, Jedah said:

Their tendency to believe that because they can't understand morality without skydaddy then nobody else can and therefore all atheists must be evil hedonists.

 

It's annoying not just because it's false, but because it's obviously false. If I lived in a world where some people could fly and I couldn't, would I deny the existence of flight just because of my own inability? Of course not, that would be completely stupid and contrary to the reality in front of me. And yet, this reality denial is exactly what Christians are doing. Despite the existence of plenty of atheists who are living ethical lives right out in the open, fundies continue their asinine claim that they have a monopoly on being "good". They don't want to admit that they simply can't wrap their heads around the concept of post conventional morality, so instead they deny that post conventional morality exists. Ridiculous.

 

 

Yes, I dislike this notion as well. There are many nonChristians and atheists who are better people than Christians. The Bible is full of unsavory characters. 

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On 11/30/2017 at 5:03 AM, Vigile said:

 

That's one. I can think of another that is much more annoying. When when someone needs help, those who don't want to actually do anything tangible but want to get credit for being seen as helpful pipe in and say they are praying.

 

Another related one is when a slew of people jump in with their prayers after a tragedy strikes. If god didn't stop the tragedy from happening, what's he going to do after people are already dead and injured that is useful? 

Same goes with the 1 survivor. People pile on and say 'wow, god was really looking out for you, you're so blessed!' What about the other 99? Strange how god blesses at the same rate as random probability, yet he gets credit for doing good and no credit at all for allowing messed up things to happen in the first place. 

Sometimes, people feel unable to do anything- so prayer is the only thing they can do. if they are able to do something, but do not- that is different. 

 

After a tragedy, people pray for comfort.

 

Yes, it seems really silly to say a person was blessed while the others were not. I think it would be better to say a person was extended time. 

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On 11/30/2017 at 6:05 AM, Ann said:

The overlapping happens because of ancient cultures and how their laws, historical accounts, or fables are interpreted over time. Look up The Golden Rule and find it's roots (a law of reciprocity, which first known recording was in ancient Egypt). Most(All? I'm not sure) religious texts "steal" from historical stories, like Noah's flood. Find the root of some of the stories in the Bible and you can see that god wasn't speaking to anyone, a man wrote the stories and he didn't hear about them from god, he more than likely heard or read some other stories from history and used that as a base to write another story and that version was used in the Bible.

But, it is alright if laws overlap, correct? I mean it is popular in the United States for people not to want Christian laws foisted upon society. My point is, that many of these laws overlap. Monogamy is part of Christianity, and it is also the law. It is against the law here, to marry more than one person at a time. 

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11 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

But, it is alright if laws overlap, correct? I mean it is popular in the United States for people not to want Christian laws foisted upon society. My point is, that many of these laws overlap. Monogamy is part of Christianity, and it is also the law. It is against the law here, to marry more than one person at a time. 

Actually in this case that law is most likely imposed by Christian ethics.

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