Quantum Leap

[realityrunt]

So, what if you come to the foot of the cross with the desire to be made whole.

Jesus did promise that, didn't he, to have life and life to the fullest. But what if you come and never find that full life Jesus promised. What if you're doing everything you can do to let Jesus in, but in the end it all turns against you.

 

What if you really need help, and you hope that your faith in him can fix what you've made wrong. But you only find more trouble, and no matter how much you pray, things never get better. 

I'm not talking about a better job, a better car or more money here. I'm talking about an inner transformation of the soul, a resurrection of the old nature into new life.

 

But what if that never comes to pass, what if you hope for 20+ years, but your requests are never heard.

 

What would you do? Keep on believing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hey primaryzero,

 

I know that place where you are. All too well.  

 

Eventually you have to know when to fold them. Christianity does not deal out a winning hand. 

 

I hope you stick around here. There are a lot of people who have been through a lot. They have good perspectives.

 

Peace, f

 

 

[realityrunt]

6 minutes ago, ficino said:

Hey primaryzero,

 

I know that place where you are. All too well.  

 

Eventually you have to know when to fold them. Christianity does not deal out a winning hand. 

 

I hope you stick around here. There are a lot of people who have been through a lot. They have good perspectives.

 

Peace, f

 

 

It's time to run!

[Jeff]

You realize that you need to change where you expect help to come from. 

I help myself now. Funny how much religion got in the way of that.

 

“Every time I start tithing, my finances get worse instead of better...  Its like it doesnt really work or something.” - earlier version of Jeff  

[Guest]

Real, vigorous Christianity is not so much about what God can do for us. He is not a Cosmic Santa Claus, nor is He in the business of transforming you immediately into the person you really want to be. Growing in grace is eventual and gradual. Some Christians are stagnant, I am myself. Some grow by leaps and bounds.

 

Job said “Though He slay me, I will trust in Him”. 

 

It is not about what we can get. 

[midniterider]

24 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Real, vigorous Christianity is not so much about what God can do for us. He is not a Cosmic Santa Claus, nor is He in the business of transforming you immediately into the person you really want to be. Growing in grace is eventual and gradual. Some Christians are stagnant, I am myself. Some grow by leaps and bounds.

 

Job said “Though He slay me, I will trust in Him”. 

 

It is not about what we can get. 

 

As people get older they gain wisdom just by being alive and discovering how people and living works.

 

Some will attribute this to Jesus while others won't.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

As people get older they gain wisdom just by being alive and discovering how people and living works.

 

Some will attribute this to Jesus while others won't.

 

 

 

 

I think after conversion, a Christian must make decisions, daily, hourly. Some decisions lead to growth. Some lead to stagnation. 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

46 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

I think after conversion, a Christian must make decisions, daily, hourly. Some decisions lead to growth. Some lead to stagnation. 

 

 

That is true of all people, not just christians.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

That is true of all people, not just christians.

Yes, but I think the OP is wondering why Christianity did not transform him. I am trying to say that transformation is gradual, and may not happen at all. 

[realityrunt]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

You realize that you need to change where you expect help to come from. 

I help myself now. Funny how much religion got in the way of that.

 

“Every time I start tithing, my finances get worse instead of better...  Its like it doesnt really work or something.” - earlier version of Jeff  

Anywho that's all in the past now, thank god! Shit, whoops.

[realityrunt]

2 hours ago, PennySerenade said:

Real, vigorous Christianity is not so much about what God can do for us. He is not a Cosmic Santa Claus, nor is He in the business of transforming you immediately into the person you really want to be. Growing in grace is eventual and gradual. Some Christians are stagnant, I am myself. Some grow by leaps and bounds.

 

Job said “Though He slay me, I will trust in Him”. 

 

It is not about what we can get. 

You know this to be true, because you know god personally? 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, primaryzero said:

You know this to be true, because you know god personally? 

Yes, I do. 

[Jeff]

22 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Yes, I do. 

So do I. His name is Zeus. 

See we can agree here. 

[Jeff]

Hi @PennySerenade. Welcome. 

 

Oh, and I love the “real christianity” comment.

You “know” god and you also know what “real christianity” is. You are a remarkable person. 

[Geezer]

25 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Yes, I do. 

 

 

It requires a lot of deep indoctrination to be a Christian. It is often difficult to tell the difference between a mentally disturbed delusional person & a deeply committed religious person. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Hi @PennySerenade. Welcome. 

 

Oh, and I love the “real christianity” comment.

You “know” god and you also know what “real christianity” is. You are a remarkable person. 

I did not mean to offend you. There are many people who pretend to be Christians, perhaps to further a political career, perhaps to appease family members, perhaps to fit in with their community. If they don’t completely buy it, then that is what I meant as the difference between real Christianity and feigned Christianity. 

 

Yes, I do know God. I talk to Him every day. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Geezer said:

 

 

It requires a lot of deep indoctrination to be a Christian. It is often difficult to tell the difference between a mentally disturbed delusional person & a deeply committed religious person. 

Yes, I suppose it is difficult. Christians are considered fools- it even says so in the Bible “not many wise, not many noble but the foolish things”. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Jeff said:

So do I. His name is Zeus. 

See we can agree here. 

If you want to call Him Zeus, I don’t think it much matters. He’s got so many names. 

[Jeff]

Just now, PennySerenade said:

I did not mean to offend you...

—

...Yes, I do know God. I talk to Him every day. 

Lol Im not offended.

 

So do muslims

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hello Penny, I used to be a very fervent Christian. Eventually I reached the conclusion that there is no warrant to believe in the existence of the God of Christianity (or Judaism or Islam).

 

What evidence do you have that establishes a warrant for belief in Christianity's God? 

 

Thank you.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ficino said:

Hello Penny, I used to be a very fervent Christian. Eventually I reached the conclusion that there is no warrant to believe in the existence of the God of Christianity (or Judaism or Islam).

 

What evidence do you have that establishes a warrant for belief in Christianity's God? 

 

Thank you.

I have no evidence. 

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, PennySerenade said:

If you want to call Him Zeus, I don’t think it much matters. He’s got so many names. 

Yes. The bible mentions many names for god.

Some folks here are rather knowledgeable about why there are so many names (spoiler - polythiesm)

 

Im done sparring for now   I mostly lurk, but if you are a new christian to the site, welcome. Many here will engage in excellent conversation with you. 

If you are here to win internet argument points, well there are plenty who will go at that too!

me? Im just feeling a little contrary today and you started out throwing softballs. I couldnt resist.

[Geezer]

7 minutes ago, PennySerenade said:

Yes, I suppose it is difficult. Christians are considered fools- it even says so in the Bible “not many wise, not many noble but the foolish things”. 

 

No, at least I don't consider Christians to be fools. I was Christian myself for 47 years of my life. Christians, through the process of indoctrination are programmed to believe certain things are true. They are also programmed to respond in specific ways to questions when asked. You say you know God because you've been programmed to respond that way when asked. In truth, you could not possibly know something that doesn't exist or at least isn't visible and as you admit it isn't possible to prove such an entity even exist at all. Therefore you cannot "know" something that you admit you cannot prove even exists. 

 

Most Christians I know are highly educated many with graduate level degrees. The say they believe certain religious traditions, doctrines, and beliefs because they have been deeply indoctrinated. Isis is a good example, outside of Christianity, that is able to indoctrinate highly educated people, even U.S. Citizens and teens, to the point they will kill and even sacrifice themselves for their "religious" beliefs. 

 

The ability to indoctrinate and brainwash people is a highly developed and effective skill. And an individuals IQ has nothing to do with their ability to be indoctrinated. 

[Geezer]

I see that you are from Alabama Penny. I'm in Tennessee. The Memphis area. May I ask what denomination or non-denominational group you affiliate with? I promise not to criticize or make negative remarks about them. I'm simply curious and I would like to get an idea of what your group believes. My background is Southern Baptist 12 years and Church of Christ for 27 years, and 8 years non-denominational independent community church. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Geezer said:

 

No, at least I don't consider Christians to be fools. I was Christian myself for 47 years of my life. Christians, through the process of indoctrination are programmed to believe certain things are true. They are also programmed to respond in specific ways to questions when asked. You say you know God because you've been programmed to respond that way when asked. In truth, you could not possibly know something that doesn't exist or at least isn't visible and as you admit it isn't possible to prove such an entity even exist at all. Therefore you cannot "know" something that you admit you cannot prove even exists. 

 

Most Christians I know are highly educated many with graduate level degrees. The say they believe certain religious traditions, doctrines, and beliefs because they have been deeply indoctrinated. Isis is a good example, outside of Christianity, that is able to indoctrinate highly educated people, even U.S. Citizens and teens, to the point they will kill and even sacrifice themselves for their "religious" beliefs. 

 

The ability to indoctrinate and brainwash people is a highly developed and effective skill. And an individuals IQ has nothing to do with their ability to be indoctrinated. 

I apologize, I thought you were impugning the intelligence of Christians in general. I am singularly unfit to present an argument pro Christianity. I am no apologist or theologian. 

 

I can say I know God because I have an intimate relationship with Him. I know that what I explain as the Holy Spirit, can be explained as feelings by atheists. I have no proof that it is God and not my own feelings and sensations. I believe it is God.