Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 hours ago, Astreja said: The Bible also mentions a Talking Snake™ (Genesis 3), but no believer has ever been able to get me one. The "believe this nonsense because it's actually true" mentality is one of the reasons I consider Christianity to be a non-trivial threat to human development, and by extension to the future of mankind. I really think that you should sit down and seriously consider why you don't mind being considered a fool, as that seems rather psychologically unhealthy. I suppose I don’t mind being considered a fool because I was warned I would be. Lol, it seems like the much asked for proof everyone wants. I know the Bible is not considered proof, so anything I could say would be of none effect. For the record, Satan was only in one serpent, and the serpent was not a snake until after the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 hours ago, primaryzero said: I wouldn't be talking like this about him, if he was real Penny. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 hours ago, primaryzero said: Sin is what your nature is, it's not something you understand first then do. You're born in a fallen sinful state, due to the actions of Adam and Eve. People are in sin, but children and mentally challenged people are innocent. They do not understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, PennySerenade said: People are in sin, but children and mentally challenged people are innocent. They do not understand. That's not what the doctrine says. Theology is a thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Orbit said: That's not what the doctrine says. Theology is a thing. I never in my life met Christians who believe children go to Hell. I have been to different churches of different denominations. I never before heard anyone say that a child goes to Hell. Most denominations believe that a child has to come to the age of accountability, to know they are sinners and need salvation. Jesus has already redeemed the entire world, every single human that ever lived or ever will live. The difference between a saved person and an unsaved person is whether or not the redemption is accepted. Little kids and mentally challenged people are unaware of sinning against God. I can say I was absolutely not at the age of accountability until I was 12. I said I was saved at 6, but I just loved God. I did not know I was a sinner at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, PennySerenade said: I never in my life met Christians who believe children go to Hell. I have been to different churches of different denominations. I never before heard anyone say that a child goes to Hell. Most denominations believe that a child has to come to the age of accountability, to know they are sinners and need salvation. Jesus has already redeemed the entire world, every single human that ever lived or ever will live. The difference between a saved person and an unsaved person is whether or not the redemption is accepted. Little kids and mentally challenged people are unaware of sinning against God. I can say I was absolutely not at the age of accountability until I was 12. I said I was saved at 6, but I just loved God. I did not know I was a sinner at that time. The belief in original sin is central to Catholic and Protestant belief. You probably never asked about it, so you were left to make up whatever made sense to you, as did the Christians that you knew. But exemptions for children and mentally disadvantaged are not in the Bible or in anyone's doctrine. You see there are two Christianities--the one that you make up according to your comfort level--and the actual one, where genocide is fine with God, for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Orbit said: The belief in original sin is central to Catholic and Protestant belief. You probably never asked about it, so you were left to make up whatever made sense to you, as did the Christians that you knew. But exemptions for children and mentally disadvantaged are not in the Bible or in anyone's doctrine. You see there are two Christianities--the one that you make up according to your comfort level--and the actual one, where genocide is fine with God, for example. I know the doctrine of original sin. I would refer to Matthew 18 as evidence that God loves children very much and that they are in Heaven. I consider mentally challenged adults to be children in mind, if not in body. Jesus loves children so much, that He said it was better to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye than to abuse a child. The doctrine that Jesus has redeemed the entire world is held by most Protestants who are not Calvinists. I do not know about Catholic doctrine. I do know we call Him the Saviour of the world, not of the saved only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, PennySerenade said: I know the doctrine of original sin. I would refer to Matthew 18 as evidence that God loves children very much and that they are in Heaven. I consider mentally challenged adults to be children in mind, if not in body. Jesus loves children so much, that He said it was better to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye than to abuse a child. The doctrine that Jesus has redeemed the entire world is held by most Protestants who are not Calvinists. I do not know about Catholic doctrine. I do know we call Him the Saviour of the world, not of the saved only. Can you not see the contradiction here? Just out of curiosity, who is "we"? What denomination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, Orbit said: Can you not see the contradiction here? Just out of curiosity, who is "we"? What denomination? We are the people who say that Jesus has redeemed the world already, the Savior of the world- not the believers only. I suppose the Protestants who are not Calvinist and Catholics. Calvinists believe in the doctrine of Limited Atonement. From what I understand, most Protestants who are not Calvinist believe the Atonement was for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Just now, PennySerenade said: We are the people who say that Jesus has redeemed the world already, the Savior of the world- not the believers only. I suppose the Protestants who are not Calvinist and Catholics. Calvinists believe in the doctrine of Limited Atonement. From what I understand, most Protestants who are not Calvinist believe the Atonement was for all. What denomination are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 The lions appear to be conspicuously missing from this den. As a lurker, how disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 9, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2017 4 hours ago, PennySerenade said: You have not ascended and are not perfect. How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Faithfulless said: The lions appear to be conspicuously missing from this den. As a lurker, how disappointing. Staff meeting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 On 12/6/2017 at 11:22 AM, PennySerenade said: Real, vigorous Christianity is not so much about what God can do for us. He is not a Cosmic Santa Claus, nor is He in the business of transforming you immediately into the person you really want to be. Growing in grace is eventual and gradual. Some Christians are stagnant, I am myself. Some grow by leaps and bounds. Job said “Though He slay me, I will trust in Him”. It is not about what we can get. "Real Christianity"? What church do you find that in? The Old Testament shows us what God is about; rape of innocents; murdering innocent women and children (the Amelekites); slavery....and other nonsense. Read Genesis, I mean really read it and see what God tells us about himself. One thing you will not see there is a God of your personal growth by grace--you will see a capricious, punishing psychopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: How do you know? If she's a Pentecostal, then she got a word from God. If she's a Baptist...well, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Orbit said: "Real Christianity"? What church do you find that in? The Old Testament shows us what God is about; rape of innocents; murdering innocent women and children (the Amelekites); slavery....and other nonsense. Read Genesis, I mean really read it and see what God tells us about himself. One thing you will not see there is a God of your personal growth by grace--you will see a capricious, punishing psychopath. The church of special pleading...I think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: How do you know? I know you are not perfect or you would not be a redneck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Orbit said: "Real Christianity"? What church do you find that in? The Old Testament shows us what God is about; rape of innocents; murdering innocent women and children (the Amelekites); slavery....and other nonsense. Read Genesis, I mean really read it and see what God tells us about himself. One thing you will not see there is a God of your personal growth by grace--you will see a capricious, punishing psychopath. I meant real as in people who believe in their hearts and not just assenting to Christian tenets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, PennySerenade said: I know you are not perfect or you would not be a redneck. That's not a very Christlike comment. In fact, it's pretty classist and offensive. But I guess the only good people are wealthy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, PennySerenade said: I meant real as in people who believe in their hearts and not just assenting to Christian tenets. You either belong to a religion or you don't. You sound like you're just making up your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Orbit said: That's not a very Christlike comment. In fact, it's pretty classist and offensive. But I guess the only good Christians are wealthy, right? I am a redneck and low class. Aren’t all Christians redneck and low class? The clinging to our God and guns crowd? Only, I don’t like guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Orbit said: You either belong to a religion or you don't. You sound like you're just making up your own. Christianity is not a religion. It is being saved. There are Christians in every denomination and Christians who do not identify with a denomination at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Just now, PennySerenade said: Christianity is not a religion. It is being saved. There are Christians in every denomination and Christians who do not identify with a denomination at all. This is utter nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, PennySerenade said: Christianity is not a religion. It is being saved. There are Christians in every denomination and Christians who do not identify with a denomination at all. What does religion mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, PennySerenade said: I am a redneck and low class. Aren’t all Christians redneck and low class? The clinging to our God and guns crowd? Only, I don’t like guns. So you have internalized classism? That's pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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