MasterOfCoin Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 All through the beginning of time, we have been taught a lot of things about the creation. However, one big question continues to loom ahead unanswered - maybe because it's forbidden to ask that. Did God Create Himself? http://www.wikiplora.com/2017/06/did-god-create-himself.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Typical Christian Apologetics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfCoin Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: Typical Christian Apologetics. Apologetics! That word makes me think of the stuffy dusty books of my library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Did you write the blog post you referenced at the wikiplora website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I don't think this is the right area for this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 2 hours ago, MasterOfCoin said: All through the beginning of time, we have been taught a lot of things about the creation. However, one big question continues to loom ahead unanswered - maybe because it's forbidden to ask that. Did God Create Himself? http://www.wikiplora.com/2017/06/did-god-create-himself.html No, man created God. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Maybe this thread needs to be moved to the Lion's Den? Edited to add: I followed the link, and now I'm sure this thread needs to be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 5 hours ago, MasterOfCoin said: Apologetics! That word makes me think of the stuffy dusty books of my library. Ooh! Look! We may have someone that came here with something new! Some new revelation that the Bible didn't cover, and that hasn't been discussed and dissected a thousand times before! A really hip, cool, totally rad, and fresh view of God! Oh, I so hope this is for real. Finally, we Ex-Cer's might have found someone who can tell us the truth about the Truth! Seriously, I have calluses on my knees from praying for this. MasterOfCoin's Christian apologetic books have grown dusty in his library, and I've been begging the Uncreated God That Has Always Been that He will at last bestow some truth, some knowledge, and the answers we have all been looking for but couldn't find in all of those books. My bank called me and warned me that my tithing savings fund was nearing the limit of what the $250,000.00 FDIC covers. I hope and pray that MasterOfCoin can tell me not only the Truth about God but also point me towards a church that is worthy of taking my money on behalf of The Almighty Transcendent God Of All That Exists, Provides, And Needs Nothing. As Brother Jeff would say, Glory! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted December 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2017 6 hours ago, MasterOfCoin said: All through the beginning of time, we have been taught a lot of things about the creation. However, one big question continues to loom ahead unanswered - maybe because it's forbidden to ask that. Did God Create Himself? http://www.wikiplora.com/2017/06/did-god-create-himself.html If an all powerful being that transcends time and space can just pop into existence from nothing then why not cut out the complicated middle man and just accept the universe popped into existence from nothing. We know that our physical laws and ideas of cause and effect break down at the point just before the big bang. So the idea that the universe needed a cause might be correct as once we have a universe the laws of cause and effect apply. But the 'cause' for the universe, being outside the laws of cause and effect, doesn't necessarily need a creator. Therefore the assertion that this cause had to be God is incorrect. So Gods existence has two problems: If God always existed then why not assume that whatever was before the big bang always existed? And if God created himself, why not assume that the universe created itself? Adding a more complex cause to solve the creation problem only makes the problem more complex. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted December 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2017 30 minutes ago, duderonomy said: Maybe this thread needs to be moved to the Lion's Den? Edited to add: I followed the link, and now I'm sure this thread needs to be moved. Yep... this is not science vs religion. Nothing here even closely resembles science on the OP's part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Yep... this is not science vs religion. Nothing here even closely resembles science on the OP's part. Oh I don't know. Science vs. Religion doesn't mean that every view has to have empirical evidence. Theories are welcome too, are they not? What if this guy has some evidence? After all, there are a lot of scientific opinions too. Maybe what this guy is saying is based on something? Shouldn't we wait and see what that is? Sorry, LF, just playing Devil's advocate and having fun, but I don't think this thread belongs here, just like Disillusioned, Our Holy Prophet of the FSM said. I'm glad that you agree. Gawd I miss BAA. Where is he? He'd be all over this! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Oh, and bonus question: Why is this question forbidden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted December 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2017 57 minutes ago, duderonomy said: Gawd I miss BAA. Where is he? He'd be all over this! Me too Hope he's ok. 57 minutes ago, duderonomy said: Oh I don't know. Science vs. Religion doesn't mean that every view has to have empirical evidence. Theories are welcome too, are they not? What if this guy has some evidence? After all, there are a lot of scientific opinions too. Maybe what this guy is saying is based on something? Shouldn't we wait and see what that is? Sorry, LF, just playing Devil's advocate and having fun, but I don't think this thread belongs here, just like Disillusioned, Our Holy Prophet of the FSM said. I'm glad that you agree. Atheist advocating: It all depends on definitions. Generally those 'theories' with empirical evidence are the strongest. This is why you will find scientists saying things like" We have this hypothesis, but until we get empirical data we cannot say if it is sound and therefore cannot form a theory yet. Remembering that in science a theory is different to your theory about the next Star Wars movie If this guy has evidence, and it is confirmed with his god hypothesis then it is by definition science. He will have demonstrated God to scientific satisfaction... and will be famous. However I read the link to the blog - twice. There is nothing in there that hasn't been argued before and rehashed so many times that you can refute it while taking a nap. Now if our new friend would like to present some evidence and explain how this shows his assertion then the thread can stay here. I'm not even sure of his position because the blog ultimately answers its own question by concluding God is beyond time and space, cause and effect, and is therefore eternal. So the answer according to said blogger is no, God didn't create himself. He simply was, and is, and shall ever be. . . . Except when he is not, which appears to be most of the time 55 minutes ago, duderonomy said: Oh, and bonus question: Why is this question forbidden? Exactly - the mere fact that Christianity has 'forbidden' questions shows it doesn't care about truth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Well, LF, do you have any empirical evidence that there is a not a God that would be beyond the realm of what science can currently explore? Plus, of course I noticed that you are in New Zealand. I'm not sure which island you are on, but please do look for a girl named FreeThinkerNZ if you get the time. I miss her, and I'll tell you what I told her. I bet one of us has a funny accent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 9 hours ago, MasterOfCoin said: Did God Create Himself? Let's ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted December 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2017 Actual science vs religion - topic Does God Exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted December 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2017 4 hours ago, duderonomy said: Well, LF, do you have any empirical evidence that there is a not a God that would be beyond the realm of what science can currently explore? Considering that science only deals with reality, and anything currently outside that is not our reality, then its impossible to have evidence of something beyond what we can have evidence for - rather self evident that should be. However the question is malformed. The burden of proof for God is upon the person making the claim, not on the person rejecting the claim. One cannot prove that something does not exist. When you show me evidence that my invisible, immaterial, transcendent pink unicorn doesn't exist I'll do the same for God. 4 hours ago, duderonomy said: Plus, of course I noticed that you are in New Zealand. I'm not sure which island you are on, but please do look for a girl named FreeThinkerNZ if you get the time. I miss her, and I'll tell you what I told her. I bet one of us has a funny accent! Well if we take @mwc line of thought, New Zealand doesn't exist because he hasn't seen it with his own eyes. That aside, FTNZ did pop back some time ago momentarily. If I knew her name I could find her. And its you who has the funny accent - I'm sure of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Well, I just read the blog post again, and I have to say that I think it is fairly silly. Sure, the question "who made God?" is a little sophomoric, but so what? That doesn't say anything at all about whether or not God actually exists. That is the question that really matters. MasterOfCoin, if you want to look at that question then I'll play along, but I'm afraid that the blog that you've posted here isn't worth any serious consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Has science discovered everything? Does science have the capability of discovering everything? If something that exists has not yet been discovered by science (no evidence,) is it then false? Or just not-yet-discovered? (Logically speaking) Can something exist without humanity being aware of it? (Logically speaking) Are all scientific theories falsifiable? https://www.edge.org/response-detail/25322 As for God, I'll just say "I don't know." Unless he makes an appearance I'll probably lump him into the same category as invisible pink unicorns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantheory Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 On 12/23/2017 at 11:31 AM, MasterOfCoin said: All through the beginning of time, we have been taught a lot of things about the creation. However, one big question continues to loom ahead unanswered - maybe because it's forbidden to ask that. Did God Create Himself? http://www.wikiplora.com/2017/06/did-god-create-himself.html Did God create himself? is exactly the same question as did Zeus create himself? Few people in this forum are interested in God or gods because nearly all have woken up intellectually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 A number of gods were considered to be eternal and/or self-creating. Of the top of my head there is Ra, Ptah and Atum in the Egyptian lore are examples of such gods. So why aren't they listed in this article? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 On 12/24/2017 at 12:44 AM, LogicalFallacy said: Well if we take @mwc line of thought, New Zealand doesn't exist because he hasn't seen it with his own eyes. Stop spreading your lies. You don't exist. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 26, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted December 26, 2017 I'm with disillusioned on this one. We really need to settle the question of god's existence before we worry over who created him, her, or it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Out new member, MasterOfCoin, is an apparent hit and run poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted December 26, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 26, 2017 6 hours ago, mwc said: Stop spreading your lies. You don't exist. mwc Neither do you... which leaves us with the question... who's doing all the typing to each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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