I don't know how you do it

[Guest]

As an atheist, all I lived for was drugs and pleasure.  I had no moral compass.

 

If I go back to being an atheist, my fear is that there will be a return to the lifestyle of living for momentary pleasure and having no regard for the feelings of others.  The fear is that it will be very destructive to my mental health.

 

But I can relate to atheists better than Christians.  I loathe the Bible as an outdated ancient book full of Parables, hyperbole, symbolism, and false promises that lead people astray and into division.

 

The Bible truly divided Christianity.

 

So I'm stuck in no man's land.  The Bible disgusts me, Christians disgust me, but prayer and reliance and dependence on a higher power is the one thing that gives me hope and peace.

 

I admire atheists for being able to do things yourself.

 

It's like this. I'm naturally a sociopath and the only reason I have compassion is because of the grace of God.

 

The compassionate atheist, on the other hand, is compassionate without the grace of God.  The Atheist is not motivated by any Eternal reward to do good to people. That is most admirable!

 

When I'm able to do good deeds, it's the grace of God.  When an atheist does good deeds, it is entirely them.

 

Now, I just don't understand how people can be so self-sufficient. 

 

Would you be happier if you believed there was an eternal reward for your actions? 

 

I would like to see atheists reach a point where they believed the universe would reward them for their good deeds.  I'd like to see you be spiritual people...so shoot me

 

All I know is there is a power in faith and prayer that keeps me sober, gives meaning to suffering, protects society from me, and gives me the grace to love others... 

 

That doesn't change the fact that the Bible is a dangerous book that leads people to judge and condemn others... 

 

My hope and prayer is that atheists will find that power without Dogma or scripture... 

 

Perhaps there is a Creator that isn't despicable like the God of Scripture?

 

Anyway, I don't know how you atheists do it... I tried to be one of you and it lead to a most humiliating failure ...jails, institutions, and almost death.

[mymistake]

By the way not everyone here is an atheist.  Some members left Christianity for a different religion.

 

With that said, as an atheist, it seems to me that the typical motivation of atheists is to change something about the world.  If we do a good deed it is because we want that good thing to exist.  For example, I am kind to my children because I want them to have a happy experience in life.  There is no afterlife in the picture.  In my mind there is no God looking down judging or rewarding.  If I see an opportunity to change things for the better then I act so that better thing will happen.  If a hundred years from now nobody knows and nobody remembers then that doesn't matter to me.  All I wanted was what I changed.  If I prevent a bad thing from happening it's because I didn't want those bad consequences to happen.  It's all about the results in the tiny part of the world I have influence over.

 

Do you want some help finding secular motivation for your own life?

[Thurisaz]

Just as a sidenote, by far not all of us ex-christians here are atheists. Here's one example of a proud follower of Thor, Odin and the rest of the Asgard gang

 

We live in a pretty shitty world these days (unless one is a member of the 1 % of course ), so it's not surprising to think that the world sucks donkey balls. As for me, if you find solace in religion and it doesn't turn you into a morontheist holier-than-thou asshole, I say more power to you. It's not religion per se that's bad... it's fanaticism and reality denial.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Thurisaz]

Just now, Rose0101 said:

Awesome!  May Odin, Thor, and Freya empower you!  I didn't know we had Pagans here.  Sweet! 

 

We don't tend to make lots of noise here but we do exist

[mymistake]

5 minutes ago, Rose0101 said:

Yes I do

 

Alright, step 1:

 

All that stuff you said about God, how God helps you in your life; realize that is actually your brain.  Some part of your own mind is what was helping you though the tough times.  I know you have been trained for years to think of that as somebody else and call it God but it's really from you.  Play with that idea and get comfortable with it.

[mymistake]

I have reason to think it is healthier.  Religious beliefs can have unwanted side effects.  If you plan out your life based on ideas that are false then you are bound to make some big mistakes.  In fact that is why I chose my screen name.  You can read more in my testimony post.  It's titled "Mybigmistake" if you want to search.  

 

The bottom line is why give yourself some extra side effect that are harmful?  If you can solve your own problem by just solving it then there is no need to add risky behavior or wasteful behavior to confuse the solution.

 

 

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

5 hours ago, Rose0101 said:

As an atheist, all I lived for was drugs and pleasure.  I had no moral compass.

 

That has nothing to do with atheism, and your new found morality has nothing to do with the Christian God or Jesus. It has to do with finding a world view and internal compass which moderated actions which you considered harmful. People have gotten the same result from turning to Islam, Buddhism etc. The problem I feel for you is that when you were atheist you had not thought about and lived by a worldview or code that allowed you to judge moral actions.

 

Personally the simple code I live by is something is moral if it increases well being or reduces harm, and immoral if it increases suffering or reduces happiness.

 

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If I go back to being an atheist, my fear is that there will be a return to the lifestyle of living for momentary pleasure and having no regard for the feelings of others.  The fear is that it will be very destructive to my mental health.

 

Again what I said above about a personal moral code. Obviously you have such a code as you have changed your lifestyle. Why do you live better now? Is it empathy for others, or fear of hell, reward of heaven?

 

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But I can relate to atheists better than Christians.  I loathe the Bible as an outdated ancient book full of Parables, hyperbole, symbolism, and false promises that lead people astray and into division.

 

The Bible truly divided Christianity.

 

So I'm stuck in no man's land.  The Bible disgusts me, Christians disgust me, but prayer and reliance and dependence on a higher power is the one thing that gives me hope and peace.

 

I admire atheists for being able to do things yourself.

 

It's like this. I'm naturally a sociopath and the only reason I have compassion is because of the grace of God.

 

The compassionate atheist, on the other hand, is compassionate without the grace of God.  The Atheist is not motivated by any Eternal reward to do good to people. That is most admirable!

 

When I'm able to do good deeds, it's the grace of God.  When an atheist does good deeds, it is entirely them.

 

Now, I just don't understand how people can be so self-sufficient.

 

This is actually what I was getting at above. I guess an atheist who has a self sufficient moral code has one because they have thought carefully about it. Many of us left Christianity, because like you, we recognized the moral abhorrence in a book that proclaimed to be good. This did not sit with our internal moral codes.

 

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Would you be happier if you believed there was an eternal reward for your actions? 

 

Well getting freebies is nice, but no, I am not a good person (Or try to be one) because of some reward or fear of punishment. Being good is the reward in itself, and in fact science tells us that when we do good for others for no reward it releases happy hormones.

 

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I would like to see atheists reach a point where they believed the universe would reward them for their good deeds.  I'd like to see you be spiritual people...so shoot me

 

Nice beliefs are irrelevant. Most atheists have reached the point where they realize that believing in something just because you like it or want it doesn't make it true.

 

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All I know is there is a power in faith and prayer that keeps me sober, gives meaning to suffering, protects society from me, and gives me the grace to love others... 

 

I would posit that you are actually far stronger than you give yourself credit for, and that you are generating this internal state yourself. If you could learn to generate it without requiring God as a crutch so much the better.

 

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That doesn't change the fact that the Bible is a dangerous book that leads people to judge and condemn others... 

 

True

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My hope and prayer is that atheists will find that power without Dogma or scripture... 

 

Sorry you lost me here - what power?

 

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Perhaps there is a Creator that isn't despicable like the God of Scripture?

 

Perhaps, but said possible creator does not care for the suffering of humanity, nor does it interfere in reality in any discernible way. Thus a God that does not reveal itself is the same as a God who doesn't exist.

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Anyway, I don't know how you atheists do it... I tried to be one of you and it lead to a most humiliating failure ...jails, institutions, and almost death.

 

I think I've given you a fair idea of how I do it. One famous atheists said in response to why without god he hasn't killed anyone: "I have killed as many people as I have wanted, and that number is zero!"

 

4 hours ago, Thurisaz said:

Just as a sidenote, by far not all of us ex-christians here are atheists. Here's one example of a proud follower of Thor, Odin and the rest of the Asgard gang

 

Hey Thurisaz

Just out of curiosity, and I hope this question does not cause offense, it's not intended to. Do you believe that Thor Odin et al literally exist? Or do you follow them culturally?

 

For example I know that some people are Hindu, but don't literally believe Shiva exists.

[Thurisaz]

59 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Just out of curiosity, and I hope this question does not cause offense, it's not intended to. Do you believe that Thor Odin et al literally exist? Or do you follow them culturally?

 

As literal entities... unlikely. Cool as that would be.

 

I do consider them "valid archetypes" of the principal forces of the universe though. Whether you call that "cultural" or not is up to you

[LogicalFallacy]

1 minute ago, Thurisaz said:

 

As literal entities... unlikely. Cool as that would be.

 

I do consider them "valid archetypes" of the principal forces of the universe though. Whether you call that "cultural" or not is up to you

 

So just thinking back to when you said to Rose that you weren't an atheist, aren't you technically an atheist though not by label? I don't know philosophically or something like that? It's a curious thing to me, holding that gods aren't literal entities, but you are not atheist. Maybe I'm thinking from a technical position and not from an identity one.

 

I agree, some things would be cool... dragons would be seriously cool.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Rose, are you a friend of Bill's?

[Margee]

47 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Rose, are you a friend of Bill's?

I'm out of being able to give points right now.

 

 Bill's house is a great place to meet people who share the same problems. Yes, they believe in a higher power and this is important to many. That is why I feel that Rose might not want to be fully deconverted. Yes, I do know the statistics about how many fail the 'program' but I also know that tons and tons of people in my city had stayed sober due to the program.' It's even quite popular for a person now to believe in their 'higher self'. The self that would cause no one harm and could learn to make good choices about their lives.  That is the theory I use when I am helping someone in the 'program'. 

[florduh]

Christianity is particularly insidious among the religions because of it's insistence that you are nothing, a worm, without the Christian god.

 

There is no reason to believe that, yet people continue to fall for it.

 

 

[Travi]

I have no problem being a compassionate and empathetic person, and I deconverted about seven years ago. You are convinced by brainwashing that you have no willpower to do anything you mentioned, as planned by the institutions who profit from such ways of thinking. You CAN produce such things at will, you just have been convinced you can't and like Florduh said: you've been convinced that without God and Christianity, you are nothing. Not even worth the air you breathe because you are using up God's air without his permission. How dare you.

All scorn aside, I really feel like you are someone who has a somewhat open mind based off what I have read thus far, and I also feel like you have that sense inside of you that you are wanting to think you can do it on your own. Let me be among the first to say: Yes, you do have the willpower, and the conviction to do it on your own. To find what you need.

Good luck.  

[Margee]

3 minutes ago, Rose0101 said:

Thank you!  If I did this all on my own, I have reason to be very proud of myself, and pride is a deadly sin... It was the fall of the devil.

Thought you despised all the bible stuff?

[Travi]

5 minutes ago, Rose0101 said:

Thank you!  If I did this all on my own, I have reason to be very proud of myself, and pride is a deadly sin... It was the fall of the devil.

Again, there is that brainwashing talk instead of your own mind. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of yourself and your accomplishments in life, or the lives of your children, loved ones, or friends - while remaining humble. It can be done, but this is where the poison is and goes back to the comment of: "Without this, you are nothing." You are not allowed to be prideful of what you have accomplished (on your own, with no divine intervention), which, to me, sounds very cruel. You could go invent the cure for cancer, something that anyone would be very proud of (you just literally saved millions of lives), yet in your mind: Nope, can't do it. Put in all this time and effort, and I can't because an invisible sky monster says I can't. All the while, you know you invented that cure for the betterment of humanity, and would be humble enough to accept the thanks of families of whose loved ones could now be saved and rid of a terrible disease.

The whole Devil/Satan diatribe is another story all together, and is full of fallacies and constancy errors. 

I do wish you the best, but I hope you figure this out - you obviously have some doubt somewhere. 

[L.B.]

On 1/20/2018 at 5:00 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

The Bible disgusts me, Christians disgust me, but prayer and reliance and dependence on a higher power is the one thing that gives me hope and peace.

 

There are ZERO demonstrable reasons for believing that:

IF I believe that prayer works

AND Christians believe that prayer is communion/conversation with their god

THEREFORE, prayer is a Christian exercise and only relates to Christianity and only works if I am a "Christian".

 

I am an ex-Christian, still attending church. I believe in a god but this god does not demand, nor conform to, standards of evidence that are possible for us to insist upon at this stage of human understanding.

 

I believe in magic; that is to say, I believe that the vast majority of pagan beliefs and practices that were banned or destroyed by Christians over the centuries met that end because they worked and Christian theology does not.

 

Christianity is not a religion; it is the mind-control tool of the oligarchy, the ruling elite in the world. It is dressed up as a religion, but you'll notice that the most powerful so-called Christians in the world are people who wholly or nearly-wholly reject sacerdotalism (that means believing that ministers/priests have special powers), miracles, etc. The belief in, and encouragement of belief in, miracles, etc, comes from the superstitions of the people in the pews, not from the leadership.

 

Even the Catholic Church has gone on to largely de-sacralize their priesthood, calling them ministers and celebrants rather than using the medieval language of powers and orders.

 

Get your hope and peace from building and staying upon your own path, whatever it looks like. "And it harm none, do as you will".

 

Even the religious ruling elite couldn't erase "do unto others" from the world - they had to put those words in the mouth of "Jesus" because the Buddha (and I am certain many others) had been saying the same thing for as long as there had been recorded human history.

[LogicalFallacy]

Just in case anyone is confused - that quote above is not actually mine - its from the OP that I quoted. I'm sure you all have figured that.

[pantheory]

On 1/19/2018 at 8:57 PM, Guest said:

As an atheist, all I lived for was drugs and pleasure.  I had no moral compass.

 

If I go back to being an atheist, my fear is that there will be a return to the lifestyle of living for momentary pleasure and having no regard for the feelings of others.  The fear is that it will be very destructive to my mental health.

 

But I can relate to atheists better than Christians.  I loathe the Bible as an outdated ancient book full of Parables, hyperbole, symbolism, and false promises that lead people astray and into division.

 

The Bible truly divided Christianity.

 

So I'm stuck in no man's land.  The Bible disgusts me, Christians disgust me, but prayer and reliance and dependence on a higher power is the one thing that gives me hope and peace.

 

I admire atheists for being able to do things yourself.

 

It's like this. I'm naturally a sociopath and the only reason I have compassion is because of the grace of God.

 

The compassionate atheist, on the other hand, is compassionate without the grace of God.  The Atheist is not motivated by any Eternal reward to do good to people. That is most admirable!

 

When I'm able to do good deeds, it's the grace of God.  When an atheist does good deeds, it is entirely them.

 

Now, I just don't understand how people can be so self-sufficient. 

 

Would you be happier if you believed there was an eternal reward for your actions? 

 

I would like to see atheists reach a point where they believed the universe would reward them for their good deeds.  I'd like to see you be spiritual people...so shoot me

 

All I know is there is a power in faith and prayer that keeps me sober, gives meaning to suffering, protects society from me, and gives me the grace to love others... 

 

That doesn't change the fact that the Bible is a dangerous book that leads people to judge and condemn others... 

 

My hope and prayer is that atheists will find that power without Dogma or scripture... 

 

Perhaps there is a Creator that isn't despicable like the God of Scripture?

 

Anyway, I don't know how you atheists do it... I tried to be one of you and it lead to a most humiliating failure ...jails, institutions, and almost death.

 

As an atheist or agnostic one can choose their own moral system and their own path in life as long as their ideas and actions are not outside the law and the accepted behavior of the culture they wish to be part of.

 

I grew up a Christian and it was not too difficult for me to follow the empathetic morals of a Christian belief system. Such a system has commonalities with many or most religions on Earth today. IMO following some religious morals is not the problem, the problem is believing in something just because someone else believes in it. This can lead to gullibility and related problems.

 

My idea of morals and a good system of living, whether one is religious or not, is shown below.

 

Regardless of one's religious beliefs, empathy suggests the negative golden rule should be important (also called the silver rule), "don't do unto others as you would not want them to do unto you." Next, could be the golden rule, both being excellent rules to follow as a non-believer or believer alike. The next is to mandate yourself to be happy and healthy .  To accomplish this, first one needs to develop a sense of humor, learn to laugh when things go a little sour, make jokes, learn how to make funny comments, learn to laugh at yourself and with others. Many in this forum are good at this. Next one needs self control, which is not easy for some. Most people also need a partner or social group to be happy with. Making others happy can be a big part of one's own happiness.

 

Excessive drugs, alcohol, tobacco, bad food, not enough sleep, etc. Too much of some things and not enough of others can hurt one's health and ultimate happiness. Lastly you need to have realistic goals in life. No one else can tell you what your goals should be, but without goals many people struggle. Try your best and be willing to change your goals over time as your personality and life experiences change. Find a job that makes you happy, but if you can't, in time find happiness and joy in the job that you have, to provide necessities and the small pleasures of life. Amen.

 

 

[midniterider]

On 1/19/2018 at 8:57 PM, Guest said:

My hope and prayer is that atheists will find that power without Dogma or scripture... 

 

Perhaps there is a Creator that isn't despicable like the God of Scripture?

 

Anyway, I don't know how you atheists do it... I tried to be one of you and it lead to a most humiliating failure ...jails, institutions, and almost death.

 

I would just ask that people believe how they want to believe. Or not believe. My way works for me. It probably would not work for others.

 

I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic.

[quinntar]

On 20/01/2018 at 2:57 PM, Guest said:

As an atheist, all I lived for was drugs and pleasure.  I had no moral compass.

 

If I go back to being an atheist, my fear is that there will be a return to the lifestyle of living for momentary pleasure and having no regard for the feelings of others.  The fear is that it will be very destructive to my mental health.

 

But I can relate to atheists better than Christians.  I loathe the Bible as an outdated ancient book full of Parables, hyperbole, symbolism, and false promises that lead people astray and into division.

 

The Bible truly divided Christianity.

 

So I'm stuck in no man's land.  The Bible disgusts me, Christians disgust me, but prayer and reliance and dependence on a higher power is the one thing that gives me hope and peace.

 

I admire atheists for being able to do things yourself.

 

It's like this. I'm naturally a sociopath and the only reason I have compassion is because of the grace of God.

 

The compassionate atheist, on the other hand, is compassionate without the grace of God.  The Atheist is not motivated by any Eternal reward to do good to people. That is most admirable!

 

When I'm able to do good deeds, it's the grace of God.  When an atheist does good deeds, it is entirely them.

 

Now, I just don't understand how people can be so self-sufficient. 

 

Would you be happier if you believed there was an eternal reward for your actions? 

 

I would like to see atheists reach a point where they believed the universe would reward them for their good deeds.  I'd like to see you be spiritual people...so shoot me

 

All I know is there is a power in faith and prayer that keeps me sober, gives meaning to suffering, protects society from me, and gives me the grace to love others... 

 

That doesn't change the fact that the Bible is a dangerous book that leads people to judge and condemn others... 

 

My hope and prayer is that atheists will find that power without Dogma or scripture... 

 

Perhaps there is a Creator that isn't despicable like the God of Scripture?

 

Anyway, I don't know how you atheists do it... I tried to be one of you and it lead to a most humiliating failure ...jails, institutions, and almost death.

Well prayer has been linked to the emotional side of the brain, it stimulates your feelings. 

 

Lot's of thing's simulates feeling's, anywho it's time to have a cold shower.

 

B back.