quinntar Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Christians. Do you really believe that your way is the only way to enlightenment, that your way is the only way to paradise. So how do you prove to yourself that what you think is true is actually true? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 15 hours ago, theanticrash said: Christians. Do you really believe that your way is the only way to enlightenment, that your way is the only way to paradise. So how do you prove to yourself that what you think is true is actually true? AC, what I think you are asking are the mechanisms defining belief and ultimately the origins of our reality. You have left several things undefined and the things that we can define regarding your question(s) are more guessing than not. But, thanks for the question. With that said, I expect our varied experiences could reveal truths but assigning said truths/mechanisms to one ultimate truth is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Are the 5 senses reliable enough to determine reality? If you are having an extended hallucination , how would you know? The people in one hallucination deny the reality of my other shorter hallucinations. *Feels the back of my neck for a data socket* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 51 minutes ago, end3 said: AC, what I think you are asking are the mechanisms defining belief and ultimately the origins of our reality. You have left several things undefined and the things that we can define regarding your question(s) are more guessing than not. But, thanks for the question. With that said, I expect our varied experiences could reveal truths but assigning said truths/mechanisms to one ultimate truth is the issue. I'd like to know how they know with such clarity that there is only one way to paradise. Since they have not completed their journey, how can they say "Our way is the only way" and the right way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 27 minutes ago, midniterider said: Are the 5 senses reliable enough to determine reality? If you are having an extended hallucination , how would you know? The people in one hallucination deny the reality of my other shorter hallucinations. *Feels the back of my neck for a data socket* You need to be unplugged from the matrix to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 54 minutes ago, theanticrash said: I'd like to know how they know with such clarity that there is only one way to paradise. Since they have not completed their journey, how can they say "Our way is the only way" and the right way. Personally, I have gathered and experienced all sorts of ways to gain confidence in belief. Simply, does your experience and knowledge confirm to you what the Bible says in your heart or not. And then you just have to keep searching for yourself what and why you believe what you believe. Seems a lot of people rely on others to give them a set of beliefs and reasons, but I would recommend searching for yourself....giving all types of beliefs a mental and spiritual test.....AND being open to honestly, assessing your beliefs and potentially changing them as a function of maturity. My personal take on "the right way" is that since we are all unique per God, then God has a unique path that we must travel to learn the end goal, love. So here's the deal. When believers are young and start going to church and things start to get better and they feel better, the natural response says, "well, our church sings 6 songs and then we pass the plate and pray three times and bam, this is the way to God". So because their path looks like this, they think YOUR path should look like this too.....exactly. Otherwise you are doing it wrong. Then God moves you down different journeys to learn different things. But the foremost idea is faith while you are traversing these paths, not giving up on the journey....hoping one day you can look at anyone and see a beautiful unique creation of God and not fault them for their lack of perfection on the journey.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, end3 said: Personally, I have gathered and experienced all sorts of ways to gain confidence in belief. Simply, does your experience and knowledge confirm to you what the Bible says in your heart or not. And then you just have to keep searching for yourself what and why you believe what you believe. Seems a lot of people rely on others to give them a set of beliefs and reasons, but I would recommend searching for yourself....giving all types of beliefs a mental and spiritual test.....AND being open to honestly, assessing your beliefs and potentially changing them as a function of maturity. My personal take on "the right way" is that since we are all unique per God, then God has a unique path that we must travel to learn the end goal, love. So here's the deal. When believers are young and start going to church and things start to get better and they feel better, the natural response says, "well, our church sings 6 songs and then we pass the plate and pray three times and bam, this is the way to God". So because their path looks like this, they think YOUR path should look like this too.....exactly. Otherwise you are doing it wrong. Then God moves you down different journeys to learn different things. But the foremost idea is faith while you are traversing these paths, not giving up on the journey....hoping one day you can look at anyone and see a beautiful unique creation of God and not fault them for their lack of perfection on the journey.... Did Jesus mean that through him you can access heaven, because A] Being like him gains you entry. B] Believing in him gains you entry. C] Jesus sacrifice gains you entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 4 hours ago, end3 said: Personally, I have gathered and experienced all sorts of ways to gain confidence in belief. Simply, does your experience and knowledge confirm to you what the Bible says in your heart or not. And then you just have to keep searching for yourself what and why you believe what you believe. Seems a lot of people rely on others to give them a set of beliefs and reasons, but I would recommend searching for yourself....giving all types of beliefs a mental and spiritual test.....AND being open to honestly, assessing your beliefs and potentially changing them as a function of maturity. My personal take on "the right way" is that since we are all unique per God, then God has a unique path that we must travel to learn the end goal, love. So here's the deal. When believers are young and start going to church and things start to get better and they feel better, the natural response says, "well, our church sings 6 songs and then we pass the plate and pray three times and bam, this is the way to God". So because their path looks like this, they think YOUR path should look like this too.....exactly. Otherwise you are doing it wrong. Then God moves you down different journeys to learn different things. But the foremost idea is faith while you are traversing these paths, not giving up on the journey....hoping one day you can look at anyone and see a beautiful unique creation of God and not fault them for their lack of perfection on the journey.... One way faith's seem to me to be impossible, let me explain. Take for example a child who dies without first believing in the revelation. Will that child be saved? If you say yes, all Christians doctrines and stipulations are null and void. Since the only way to heaven is based on faith in Jesus (Which the child does not have. If you say no, then you keep your Christian rules but lose the child to the fiery pit of destruction. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 17 hours ago, theanticrash said: Did Jesus mean that through him you can access heaven, because A] Being like him gains you entry. B] Believing in him gains you entry. C] Jesus sacrifice gains you entry. I don't think any of these are independent of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 17 hours ago, theanticrash said: One way faith's seem to me to be impossible, let me explain. Take for example a child who dies without first believing in the revelation. Will that child be saved? If you say yes, all Christians doctrines and stipulations are null and void. Since the only way to heaven is based on faith in Jesus (Which the child does not have. If you say no, then you keep your Christian rules but lose the child to the fiery pit of destruction. I don't think most children actively choose or are aware of the reasons they choose the behaviors they do until some age. I believe they are then accountable for their decision to choose Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, end3 said: I don't think most children actively choose or are aware of the reasons they choose the behaviors they do until some age. I believe they are then accountable for their decision to choose Christ. Kids are indoctrinated from birth (I was), they really don't have a choice. They just get pressured to affirm what their parents want them to "choose" when in fact it's required, not a choice at all. The parents sigh a breath of relief because they then believe their coerced child is "saved'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, Orbit said: Kids are indoctrinated from birth (I was), they really don't have a choice. They just get pressured to affirm what their parents want them to "choose" when in fact it's required, not a choice at all. The parents sigh a breath of relief because they then believe their coerced child is "saved'. Which affirms my point....that if children were able to actively choose their course, parents wouldn't be a necessity to guide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, end3 said: I don't think any of these are independent of each other. But only one thing gets you entry into heaven, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, end3 said: I don't think most children actively choose or are aware of the reasons they choose the behaviors they do until some age. I believe they are then accountable for their decision to choose Christ. Ah yes, the age of accountability. Well, what age do you think they would be accountable end3. Give me a ballpark figure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 hours ago, theanticrash said: But only one thing gets you entry into heaven, right? 4 hours ago, theanticrash said: In my opinion there are portions of all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 hours ago, theanticrash said: Ah yes, the age of accountability. Well, what age do you think they would be accountable end3. Give me a ballpark figure. I expect it varies AC. Some people seem to become self aware at a very young age. I think I didn't really have a clue until about age 27..lol. I don't know an average age. And I expect with the internet, knowledge of crap is more prevalent and the average is going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 29, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 5:04 PM, end3 said: Simply, does your experience and knowledge confirm to you what the Bible says in your heart or not. And then you just have to keep searching for yourself what and why you believe what you believe. This is known as confirmation bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 19 minutes ago, end3 said: I expect it varies AC. Some people seem to become self aware at a very young age. I think I didn't really have a clue until about age 27..lol. I don't know an average age. And I expect with the internet, knowledge of crap is more prevalent and the average is going down. That's just not good enough End, and I suspect you know it. As a Christian your expectations and philosophies and what you think don't mean squat. Can you show that in Christianity (IOW from the New Testament) there is an "age of accountability"? And if so, what is this age? You have no Christianity beyond the Bible, so show us chapter and verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 29, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2018 18 minutes ago, end3 said: I expect it varies AC. Some people seem to become self aware at a very young age. I think I didn't really have a clue until about age 27..lol. I don't know an average age. And I expect with the internet, knowledge of crap is more prevalent and the average is going down. Since each of us are unique individuals, the age of accountability is different for everyone. And only god knows and can decide when a person is old enough and wise enough to be held accountable. Also, since god is not a respecter of persons, the age of accountability is the same for everyone and it doesn't matter to god how old or wise any of us are. Thus the age of accountability is both different for everybody and the same for everybody and god is magic. Praise him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 29, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2018 Believers have to scramble to make the Bible's words work in the real world. There are many contradictions, demonstrable errors and unaddressed doctrinal questions. Since people must accept Jesus to get into Heaven and avoid Hell, the problem of children arises. Some believer responses include the invention of an "age of accountability" before which one gets a pass and others insist that a baby must be baptized or they won't make it to Heaven should they die young. Some take a quite different and unbiblical approach in that while accepting Christianity as their Truth, there must also be other paths to Heaven since some people don't get the chance to repent and believe in Jesus. Of course some think only 144,000 out of billions will make it anyway so good luck, everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 6 hours ago, end3 said: Which affirms my point....that if children were able to actively choose their course, parents wouldn't be a necessity to guide... If left alone the vast majority of children would grow up to be atheist. It takes a community to teach religion. But which religion depends on the community. Why would God allow millions of people to burn in hell forever simply because they were born in the wrong community? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, end3 said: In my opinion there are portions of all three. So you have to hold to three portions here? What about obeying Jesus teachings, is that a fourth portion? What about keeping the sacrament, is that a fifth portion? Even in Christianity there's no one way, like just love Jesus and your in, well that would be a sixth portion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, end3 said: I expect it varies AC. Some people seem to become self aware at a very young age. I think I didn't really have a clue until about age 27..lol. I don't know an average age. And I expect with the internet, knowledge of crap is more prevalent and the average is going down. You mean knowledge of sin at some point, right? Well 27 is a bit old to not be aware of any wrong doing on your own part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: This is known as confirmation bias. Yes, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 8 hours ago, end3 said: Which affirms my point....that if children were able to actively choose their course, parents wouldn't be a necessity to guide... I believe Orbit is saying coercion does not mean choice. It means being forced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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