quinntar Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Who do you think is nicer, Jesus or Yahweh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2018 Jesus. There is no competition. You can see the development in how people thought socially from the old angry human killing Yahweh, or the more loving turn your cheek when it suits Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Jesus. There is no competition. You can see the development in how people thought socially from the old angry human killing Yahweh, or the more loving turn your cheek when it suits Jesus. Yeah but Jesus created the landscape for hell, and vicarious redemption. Personally I like Yahweh better, Jesus seems like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, theanticrash said: Yeah but Jesus created the landscape for hell, and vicarious redemption. Personally I like Yahweh better, Jesus seems like a wolf in sheep's clothing. You are discussing this with an atheist who doesn't think Yahweh exists, and that if Jesus existed then we cannot accurately state what he may or may not have thought on these subjects. What we do know is that people with agendas used the name Jesus to put forward their notion of their "Gospels". The landscape for hell was created long before Judaism ever came to be. The Egyptians and Sumerians had hell concepts long before the Canaanites splinted and started their own identity based around one of the their Gods. Our current idea of hell derives a lot from Dante's hell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante Having said that lets play the game: Yahweh: Creates everything including hell and heaven and Satan. Makes a garden, puts two trees in it, puts a deceptive serpent in it, tells his 'children' not to each fruit or they will die. Children (Adam and Eve) eat fruit. Yahweh curses Adam and Eve and their descendants for ever after. That's just from the first two chapters of the OT. You sure you want to argue your case that Jesus is worse? I'm going to quote Richard Dawkins: "“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” " I rest my case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: You are discussing this with an atheist who doesn't think Yahweh exists, and that if Jesus existed then we cannot accurately state what he may or may not have thought on these subjects. What we do know is that people with agendas used the name Jesus to put forward their notion of their "Gospels". The landscape for hell was created long before Judaism ever came to be. The Egyptians and Sumerians had hell concepts long before the Canaanites splinted and started their own identity based around one of the their Gods. Our current idea of hell derives a lot from Dante's hell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante Having said that lets play the game: Yahweh: Creates everything including hell and heaven and Satan. Makes a garden, puts two trees in it, puts a deceptive serpent in it, tells his 'children' not to each fruit or they will die. Children (Adam and Eve) eat fruit. Yahweh curses Adam and Eve and their descendants for ever after. That's just from the first two chapters of the OT. You sure you want to argue your case that Jesus is worse? I'm going to quote Richard Dawkins: "“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” " I rest my case. Yes, but Jesus is the one we come up against by the billions. "We do not war against flesh and bone, but the mind's of believing Christians in high places" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, theanticrash said: Yes, but Jesus is the one we come up against by the billions. "We do not war against flesh and bone, but the mind's of believing Christians in high places" Ok you win. #Jesussaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, LogicalFallacy said: Ok you win. #Jesussaves For me it is Jesus who's the worst, only because I believed it was him who made the heaven's and the earth, and hell, and everything else. Jesus! I don't know what I'm arguing about any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 It isn't even a competition. Yahweh is way nicer than Jesus. Yahweh is a cosmic dictator who demands absolute obedience and will torture or kill anybody who defies him. But Yahweh is so much nicer that once you are dead he will leave you alone forever. Yahweh allows your suffering to end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 43 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Yahweh: Creates everything including hell and heaven and Satan. Makes a garden, puts two trees in it, puts a deceptive serpent in it, tells his 'children' not to each fruit or they will die. Children (Adam and Eve) eat fruit. Yahweh curses Adam and Eve and their descendants for ever after. That's just from the first two chapters of the OT. You sure you want to argue your case that Jesus is worse? I'm going to quote Richard Dawkins: "“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” " I rest my case. im going to have to say Jesus is the bigger asshole as well. As far as I can understand from the old testament the "hell" of the old testament wasn't the torturous, everlasting, inescapable hell that Jesus depicted. When yahweh punished you he just killed your ass. but not jesus. he's gonna let ya live out your pour miserable life and suffer until old age then he's gonna did your eternal soul in flames forever. over, and over and over and over and over and over and over etc etc etc. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, mymistake said: It isn't even a competition. Yahweh is way nicer than Jesus. Yahweh is a cosmic dictator who demands absolute obedience and will torture or kill anybody who defies him. But Yahweh is so much nicer that once you are dead he will leave you alone forever. Yahweh allows your suffering to end. lol you beat me to it by seconds :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2018 I really think you are blaming Jesus for shit Yahweh did. Who created Satan? Who created Sin that required Jesus to do his shmuck thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: I really think you are blaming Jesus for shit Yahweh did. Who created Satan? Who created Sin that required Jesus to do his shmuck thing? I think I know what it is Logical. Yahweh was a child abuser and Beat Jesus. Thats why Jesus is the way he is. Your right Yahweh is worse. He messed Jesus up in the head so he created hell to torture us like he was tortured by his father. And since Jesus is suffering eternally then hell had to be eternal too!!!! It all makes sense now! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Not to mention it's gotta be hard being the product of God raping your mom. Just saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, DarkBishop said: Not to mention it's gotta be hard being the product of God raping your mom. Just saying. Exactly, now you are starting to think about this rationally and logically instead of getting all emotional and feelie about Jesus and his hell. @TruthSeeker0 See what I did there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 38 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: I really think you are blaming Jesus for shit Yahweh did. Who created Satan? Who created Sin that required Jesus to do his shmuck thing? I consider that Jesus was using Yahweh and the Bible to create his own agenda, much like Joseph Smith. Not even the Jews accepted him as the messiah, even now they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 40 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: Exactly, now you are starting to think about this rationally and logically instead of getting all emotional and feelie about Jesus and his hell. @TruthSeeker0 See what I did there? It's been a good long while since I've got the feels over hell or Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, theanticrash said: I consider that Jesus was using Yahweh and the Bible to create his own agenda, much like Joseph Smith. Not even the Jews accepted him as the messiah, even now they don't. thats if Jesus even existed. there are some pretty good arguments that Jesus may have been a myth as well. My thoughts are that he may have existed but his story like everything else was probably embellished, exaggerated, and twisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 6 hours ago, DarkBishop said: thats if Jesus even existed. there are some pretty good arguments that Jesus may have been a myth as well. My thoughts are that he may have existed but his story like everything else was probably embellished, exaggerated, and twisted My thoughts exactly. And if Jesus was indeed a person and stories about him caught on and were embellished anything like they are in my former congregation, than I can certainly see how he turned into a thing 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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