VerbosityCat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 21 hours ago, florduh said: I get your point, but I can't ignore the fact that sound and color frequencies can be demonstrated to exist even though some people can't personally perceive them. You can see the wavelengths of light and sound on appropriate equipment. Nobody can see x-rays yet nobody claims they therefore don't exist. Basically, there are things we can't perceive with our normal senses yet they can be proven to exist anyway. This is a good point. But the fact is there ARE people doing research into things like NDEs, various psychic phenomena, and reincarnation. But skeptics are going to handwave it away. I mean your side of things is ABSOLUTELY REFUSING to see anything. There is NO version of "proof" you will accept. It doesn't matter. It's already been defined away as nonexistent. The bar has been set in such a way that... you won't accept a nonmaterial thing unless a material explanation for a nonmaterial thing can be found. (which is a nonsequitor) And even if there IS some way to measure/test a thing that is nonmaterial, you (third person general you. I'm not sure if YOU personally would accept or not accept but I DO feel there is quite a bit of evidence out there currently to consider. But atheists want us to dig up proof. Like look, I've spent 20 freaking years "doing the work", searching and looking at things and assessing various truth claims for myself. I'm not going to collate every single thing I've ever looked at that convinced me we are more than material, just to "prove things" to a skeptic who won't bother to really look into it and even if they do, will find ways not to accept anything that doesn't already fit their biases and what they want to be true. My time on this planet is more valuable than that. If you care, look into it yourself. If you don't, don't but I'm not anybody's errand girl on this matter.) Hardline materialists won't accept any of it because you've already a priori decided they won't accept anything nonmaterial because they've de facto decided "only the material" is real. It's just fucking frustrating as hell. Like I don't have any problem with atheists REFUSING to accept this stuff. I mean just be honest though. Admit your biases. Admit you don't WANT to accept any of this shit. That's what gets me... this sort of "dishonesty" about the whole thing. ANd the constant goal post moving. And like we talked about James Randi and how disingenous his offer really was and how it was revealed that he really only wanted to get into this thing with people he felt sure he could make a fool of. He was out to smear and discredit people rather than search for actual truth. And I'm not saying "my views are the truth". I don't feel some weird "compulsion to be right". I think when it comes to the ultimate questions we are all a bunch of morons. Like 3 year olds trying to understand calculus. It's above our pay grade essentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: And what about commas? They can be all over the show. I correct a post three times and it's still wrong. In a world of autocorrect how does this happen? ,,|,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 21 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said: Well that's really too bad, because I'm enjoying this forum, and hearing the ideas of people like @VerbosityCat. I'm not anywhere near as spiritual as she is, but I don't feel the need to tell her she's on the wrong path etc. Clearly, it has some positive benefit to her, and that's important. It's going to become way too boring around here if we can't have space for anyone else besides the hard nosed atheist types. I think we should be able to recognize that some people have a need for their own spirituality and their own path, and that in this section, we can respect that need without having to impose another need for debate on it. Thanks! That means a lot to me. And you know, I can accept a WIDE range of thought difference from me. I just don't want to be constantly having to "defend myself" as if I am not allowed to exist as who I am without the approval of others, you know? I know this sounds like a "stable genius" argument, but I really do have quite a high IQ. I'm not a moron by any stretch of the imagination. I'm also not dishonest. Nor am I particularly "superstitious" (like I dont' think "outside forces" control my life. *I* make choices and control my life.) Or any other number of things that are often lumped onto spiritual people. I can accept not everybody has spiritual needs. Or not everybody sees things in a spiritual way. The love of my life going on 19 years now is totally non-spiritual. I don't "love him in spite of this". I love everything that he is, INCLUDING this. (He also, notably was my biggest supporter in getting out of Xtianity and just giving me the fucking space to define my own path, go on my journey, figure out who I am and what I believe about shit and then just accepting me. I accept him. He accepts me. I'm really not sure why it's so hard for people in general to just accept we aren't all the same.) So it's not like I have some need that "everybody think like me". I don't care. I just want a seat at the table and basic respect as a non-idiot who can think for myself and determine my own value system and what meaning I ascribe to the world. Like I hear from atheists all the time that everybody gets to pick their own meaning in life. Okay great. I picked one. "Anything but that! You can't PROVE that to my satisfaction!" I mean seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 16 hours ago, midniterider said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress I'll tell you something funny about the dress. I can see it both ways and go back and forth between the two. I can see it as black and blue and then shift and see it as white and gold and then shift back. For whatever reason the cones in my eyes respond to both versions of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 33 minutes ago, VerbosityCat said: This is a good point. But the fact is there ARE people doing research into things like NDEs, various psychic phenomena, and reincarnation. But skeptics are going to handwave it away. I mean your side of things is ABSOLUTELY REFUSING to see anything. There is NO version of "proof" you will accept. It doesn't matter. It's already been defined away as nonexistent. The bar has been set in such a way that... you won't accept a nonmaterial thing unless a material explanation for a nonmaterial thing can be found. (which is a nonsequitor) And even if there IS some way to measure/test a thing that is nonmaterial, you (third person general you. I'm not sure if YOU personally would accept or not accept but I DO feel there is quite a bit of evidence out there currently to consider. But atheists want us to dig up proof. Like look, I've spent 20 freaking years "doing the work", searching and looking at things and assessing various truth claims for myself. I'm not going to collate every single thing I've ever looked at that convinced me we are more than material, just to "prove things" to a skeptic who won't bother to really look into it and even if they do, will find ways not to accept anything that doesn't already fit their biases and what they want to be true. My time on this planet is more valuable than that. If you care, look into it yourself. If you don't, don't but I'm not anybody's errand girl on this matter.) Hardline materialists won't accept any of it because you've already a priori decided they won't accept anything nonmaterial because they've de facto decided "only the material" is real. It's just fucking frustrating as hell. Like I don't have any problem with atheists REFUSING to accept this stuff. I mean just be honest though. Admit your biases. Admit you don't WANT to accept any of this shit. That's what gets me... this sort of "dishonesty" about the whole thing. ANd the constant goal post moving. And like we talked about James Randi and how disingenous his offer really was and how it was revealed that he really only wanted to get into this thing with people he felt sure he could make a fool of. He was out to smear and discredit people rather than search for actual truth. And I'm not saying "my views are the truth". I don't feel some weird "compulsion to be right". I think when it comes to the ultimate questions we are all a bunch of morons. Like 3 year olds trying to understand calculus. It's above our pay grade essentially. Like look, I've spent 20 freaking years "doing the work", searching and looking at things and assessing various truth claims for myself. "So you followed the evidence wherever it led (TM)" and strangely you ended up not being a materialist. You must have broken a rule somewhere. (haha) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Joshpantera said: By sticking to the rules, that shouldn't be a problem anymore. And I intend to steer conversations towards the sub forum guidelines so that we all have an open forum for discussion of beliefs. I think it's counter productive to have people scared to open up and share what they're really thinking and feeling for fear of being badgered to death and embarrased. We can leave that for the Den. The fittest debaters can play over there. YES! This. This forum was dead for a long time and I think it has to do with people not wanting to be mocked or talked down to or feeling attacked for simply sharing their thoughts or like they CONSTANTLY have to be in defense mode. I'm fine if people want to attack any woo whatsoever in the lion's den, but the subforum SET UP FOR the spiritual people of ex-C should be a space FOR US and I can guarantee most of us don't get the naughty tingles from the idea of constantly having to defend ourselves every time we try to talk to other people who also have spiritual views. It just feels like trying to have a conversation and a little kid jumping in and interrupting every five seconds about how they have to go to the bathroom and you have to deal with that and the convo gets derailed etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: Lol not for that I hope. Obvious joke is obvious? It was obvious to me. I just ran out of haha buttons so I couldn't click you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, midniterider said: Like look, I've spent 20 freaking years "doing the work", searching and looking at things and assessing various truth claims for myself. "So you followed the evidence wherever it led (TM)" and strangely you ended up not being a materialist. You must have broken a rule somewhere. (haha) RIGHT!?!?! Well it was the same thing in Christianity. As I was on my way out I was asking a lot of questions and at first Christians were like "It's okay to ask questions. Just pray about it" and they would try to answer and explain my questions but like... finally I got to the point of: "Look, the flood is absolutely insane and immoral. how can you pray to a god and how do you expect me to pray to a god who drowns EVERYTHING like a big baby when stuff doesn't go his way... including cute little innocent animals. How is it somehow okay because "two of each were saved" And of course then they FREAKED THE FUCK OUT. Because OMG NO that cannot happen. I'm only allowed to ask questions if I'm willing to be "corrected" by them and steered like a fucking sheep back into the pen. And like forget the impossibility of a boat that can contain ALL the animals and the genetic problems with only having a single breeding pair to repopulate everything with and where you put all the shit... I mean... just the immorality of the whole fucking story. And I get that myths are symbolic stories and not meant to be taken literally, but I was expected to take this shit literally and also WHAT IS THE MESSAGE I'M SUPPOSED TO GET FROM THIS? It's okay to destroy everything around you when you don't get your way, as long as you save a little bit of stuff? "Obedience is good!" ? I mean I don't get it. Tell me a story about Thor going to get his hammer from some giants that stole it and I understand what that story is about on a metaphorical level. But all the bible stories are just about obedience and being an evil fucknugget. Jonah and the whale is a HORRIBLE story. The message here is basically: "Do whatever biblegod says. Give up your right to live your OWN life and run his errands for him or he will punish you until you do." Yeah what great moral teachings. /sarc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted October 25, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2018 Let me tell you about the pink elephant I'm currently starring at hovering mid way in my living room. It's wild, and divine at the same time. It's waving it's snout. I think it's trying to communicate something. Let me see if I can try and decipher. Tell them that it's real. Tell them that I'm real. Tell them you believe. Ask them if anyone has a problem with that. Ok, any one have a problem? Anyone wanna "debunk" the pink elephant? Although Ex-Christian.net has no particular quarrel with deists, pagans, Buddhists, and other forms of non-evangelical spiritual thinkers, at times discussions in other sections of this site do have a tendency to create the impression that "ex-Christian" automatically means "atheist." The reality is, ex-Christian only means ex-Christian. Nothing else is implied by the term. In this one area of Ex-Christian.net, each individual who has adopted an alternative spiritual expression should feel encouraged to freely express any experiences, thoughts, or opinions without fear of being brow beaten, harshly criticized, or condemned. Failure to adhere to these simple rules with common courtesy may result in revocation of posting permission in this section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: Let me tell you about the pink elephant I'm currently starring at hovering mid way in my living room. It's wild, and divine at the same time. It's waving it's snout. I think it's trying to communicate something. Let me see if I can try and decipher. Tell them that it's real. Tell them that I'm real. Tell them you believe. Ask them if anyone has a problem with that. Ok, any one have a problem? Anyone wanna "debunk" the pink elephant? Where is MY pink elephant? Goddammit I never get the cool animals to come to my living room. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VerbosityCat Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Oh and also... your elephant TALKS? Why don't I get a talking pink elephant? Who do I send my complaint to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted October 25, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, VerbosityCat said: Oh and also... your elephant TALKS? Why don't I get a talking pink elephant? Who do I send my complaint to? Whatever you want to call it. All complaints (and all paths) lead to the same destination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts