True & False

[quinntar]

Since Christians believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God and the truth, it can not have one error in it.  Or it would be A [True]  and B [False] at the same time. If there is but one error in the Bible, it is fallible and therefore B. 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Historical and cultural context.  And also allegory and metaphor.  Besides, it IS the infallible word of god; but it was written by fallible men.  And that explains the so-called "errors".

[mymistake]

Why is it that God always needs some human to spread the news or write down God's word?  Sounds fishy.  But you're right.  It can't be flawless and flawed at the same time.

[pantheory]

On 2/7/2018 at 2:08 AM, theanticrash said:

Since Christians believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God and the truth, it can not have one error in it.  Or it would be A [True]  and B [False] at the same time. If there is but one error in the Bible, it is fallible and therefore B.

 

 

This link explains some obvious problems with the Bible.  Possibly  only a few of its details, and likely none of its stories can be proven historically since they most likely are fabricated allegorical fable, no better than BS as to their validity.

 

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-bible-is-fiction-a-collection-of-evidence/

[ironhorse]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:08 AM, theanticrash said:

Since Christians believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God and the truth, it can not have one error in it.  Or it would be A [True]  and B [False] at the same time. If there is but one error in the Bible, it is fallible and therefore B. 

 

 

 

 

The scriptures do not use the terms “infallible” or “inerrant” to describe its self. It is a mistake, I think, to try to apply these terms to the 66 books of the Bible.

 

This is what the scriptures say about the scriptures:

(Note: At the time Paul wrote this, he was only aware of the Old Testament.)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

 

I like how the view of scripture was written in the 1644 London Baptist Confession. This was a commonly accepted view before the battle over the Bible ( “infallible" “inerrant” fundamentalists against the modernists) started in the early part of the 20^th century.

In this written Word God has plainly revealed whatsoever He has thought needful for us to know, believe, and acknowledge, touching the nature and office of Christ, in whom all the promises are Yea and Amen to the praise of God.

Acts 3:22, 23; Heb. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim 3:15-17; 2 Cor. 1:20

~ London Baptist Confession of 1644

 

 

 

 

[florduh]

If "all scripture is given by inspiration of God," then assuming God is infallible, any God given scripture is also infallible. Otherwise you must concede that a perfect God can and does do imperfect things. That's not consistent with the internal logic of the God argument. That the writer was only aware of and only referring to the Old Testament makes it even worse. The most salient points of disagreement with history, logic and current knowledge are in the Old Testament.

[mymistake]

39 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

The scriptures do not use the terms “infallible” or “inerrant” to describe its self. It is a mistake, I think, to try to apply these terms to the 66 books of the Bible.

 

This is what the scriptures say about the scriptures:

(Note: At the time Paul wrote this, he was only aware of the Old Testament.)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

 

 

You are getting it backwards again.  The 66 books were not yet chosen by the early Catholic church and did not exist in a collection until much later.  So which writings count as scripture?  Every religion and almost every sect gives a different answer.  You have no way of showing that your answer is better than any of the other answers.  You have your faith that your scriptures are the one true scripture but all the other religious people have their faith that some other collection of writings are the correct mix of scripture.  Ignoring this problem will not make it go away.

 

Also if the Roman Catholics got the one true mix of scriptures right then that would prove that they do speak on behalf of Jesus and you should be a Roman Catholic.  Rebelling against the authority of Jesus Christ is rebelling against Jesus.  It is bizarre that you adore the scripture collection the Roman Catholics created but reject their teachings.

 

 

[Realist]

On 2/10/2018 at 2:54 AM, ironhorse said:

 

 

The scriptures do not use the terms “infallible” or “inerrant” to describe its self. It is a mistake, I think, to try to apply these terms to the 66 books of the Bible.

 

This is what the scriptures say about the scriptures:

(Note: At the time Paul wrote this, he was only aware of the Old Testament.)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

... so from your babble above you are saying to take out of it whatever you want ... you are an Einstein Ironhorse! No wonder we have 30,000+ interpretations of the same book!!  

Sorry, that was a slur to Einstein!

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

If the bible is what god thought we needed to know, he is obviously not omniscient.

[Guest end3]

10 hours ago, Realist said:

... so from your babble above you are saying to take out of it whatever you want ... you are an Einstein Ironhorse! No wonder we have 30,000+ interpretations of the same book!!  

Sorry, that was a slur to Einstein!

 

I really think Einstein would disagree with you take here R.  As individuals, it's unreasonable to think we should process a message the exact same way.  I have very expensive instruments that respond independently to the introduction of the same standard.....even being built and designed to do the same thing as the instrument beside it on the bench.

[Realist]

2 hours ago, end3 said:

I really think Einstein would disagree with you take here R.  As individuals, it's unreasonable to think we should process a message the exact same way.  I have very expensive instruments that respond independently to the introduction of the same standard.....even being built and designed to do the same thing as the instrument beside it on the bench.

... I think Einstein would love being compared to an instrument End! (As do I)

[quinntar]

On 2/9/2018 at 11:54 PM, ironhorse said:

 

 

The scriptures do not use the terms “infallible” or “inerrant” to describe its self. It is a mistake, I think, to try to apply these terms to the 66 books of the Bible.

 

This is what the scriptures say about the scriptures:

(Note: At the time Paul wrote this, he was only aware of the Old Testament.)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

 

I like how the view of scripture was written in the 1644 London Baptist Confession. This was a commonly accepted view before the battle over the Bible ( “infallible" “inerrant” fundamentalists against the modernists) started in the early part of the 20^th century.

In this written Word God has plainly revealed whatsoever He has thought needful for us to know, believe, and acknowledge, touching the nature and office of Christ, in whom all the promises are Yea and Amen to the praise of God.

Acts 3:22, 23; Heb. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim 3:15-17; 2 Cor. 1:20

~ London Baptist Confession of 1644

 

 

 

 

Yeah it does.

 

Proverbs 30:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
    he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
    or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

 

I'll wait for your reply

(Sorry I have been away, I was very busy)

[Moxie]

The Bible is subject to human (flawed) interpretation, and even if Christians say the holy spirit guides them to the correct interpretation, at the end of the day, it's humans who are saying that.

 

Fact: The Bible is literature.

 

Whether it is inerrant or not is an opinion.

[quinntar]

7 minutes ago, Bookworm said:

The Bible is subject to human (flawed) interpretation, and even if Christians say the holy spirit guides them to the correct interpretation, at the end of the day, it's humans who are saying that.

 

Fact: The Bible is literature.

 

Whether it is inerrant or not is an opinion.

Ugh, humans.

[quinntar]

On 2/12/2018 at 2:46 AM, end3 said:

I really think Einstein would disagree with you take here R.  As individuals, it's unreasonable to think we should process a message the exact same way.  I have very expensive instruments that respond independently to the introduction of the same standard.....even being built and designed to do the same thing as the instrument beside it on the bench.

Mr end3 have you found any faults in the good book? 

[ironhorse]

5 hours ago, theanticrash said:

Yeah it does.

 

Proverbs 30:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
    he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
    or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

 

I'll wait for your reply

(Sorry I have been away, I was very busy)

 

 

The Bible contains words spoken by various people, some good, some bad. What is written in the Bible is inspired of God, it is there because God wants it there. Not everything that people spoke was in agreement with God. The scriptures are inspired, but not every word or sentence is a direct quote of God’s.

It does contain direct quotes ("Thus says the Lord...", "And God said...", etc.). God also spoke at times through the prophets.

Jesus is called the Word.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~ John 1:14 (NIV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[quinntar]

2 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

The Bible contains words spoken by various people, some good, some bad. What is written in the Bible is inspired of God, it is there because God wants it there. Not everything that people spoke was in agreement with God. The scriptures are inspired, but not every word or sentence is a direct quote of God’s.

It does contain direct quotes ("Thus says the Lord...", "And God said...", etc.). God also spoke at times through the prophets.

Jesus is called the Word.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~ John 1:14 (NIV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is another verse in a different book.

 

2 Samuel 22:31 New International Version (NIV)
"As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.

 

 

[midniterider]

13 minutes ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

The Bible contains words spoken by various people, some good, some bad. What is written in the Bible is inspired of God, it is there because God wants it there. Not everything that people spoke was in agreement with God. The scriptures are inspired, but not every word or sentence is a direct quote of God’s.

It does contain direct quotes ("Thus says the Lord...", "And God said...", etc.). God also spoke at times through the prophets.

Jesus is called the Word.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~ John 1:14 (NIV)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, some of the bible is not the word of God?

[mymistake]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

So, some of the bible is not the word of God?

 

That must be why Christians get to ignore so much of the Bible.

[midniterider]

3 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

The Bible contains words spoken by various people, some good, some bad. What is written in the Bible is inspired of God, it is there because God wants it there. Not everything that people spoke was in agreement with God. The scriptures are inspired, but not every word or sentence is a direct quote of God’s.

 

Like the unicorn scriptures. God wanted unicorns in the bible.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=unicorn&qs_version=KJV

 

My personal favorite:

Isaiah 34:7

"And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness."

 

Fat with fatness.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I wonder if god also cherry-picks which verses are really his "word" and which ones are just allegory.

[LogicalFallacy]

4 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

 

The Bible contains words spoken by various people, some good, some bad. What is written in the Bible is inspired of God, it is there because God wants it there. Not everything that people spoke was in agreement with God. The scriptures are inspired, but not every word or sentence is a direct quote of God’s.

It does contain direct quotes ("Thus says the Lord...", "And God said...", etc.). God also spoke at times through the prophets.

Jesus is called the Word.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~ John 1:14 (NIV)

 

 

So all the rules on slavery and rape are inspired?

 

The description of a flat earth surrounded by a solid dome with water above and below it is inspired?

 

When Moses commands the Hebrews to slaughter man, women and child, its inspired?

 

When Paul says Women shall not speak in church or hold authority over man, its inspired?

 

When Jesus refers to Adam and Eve and talking snakes as real, it's inspired?

[ironhorse]

4 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

So, some of the bible is not the word of God?

 

All the Bible, every word, was written by people inspired by God. This does not mean that every individual word or sentence is God speaking, but they are words and sentences that are “God-breathed.”

This means that God was superintending (managing) the writers so that, allowing them to use using their own individual personalities (and even their own writing styles), they composed and recorded without error His revelations and messages to us.

God’s management and inspiration through his Spirit insured what they wrote was precisely what God wanted written.

So, to answer your question: Yes, all the Bible is the word of God. They are the words he wanted used and allowed to be used. 

 

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~ John 1:14 (NIV)

 

 

 

[midniterider]

God inspired ripping babies from the womb in Hosea 13:16.

[quinntar]

5 hours ago, ironhorse said:

 

All the Bible, every word, was written by people inspired by God. This does not mean that every individual word or sentence is God speaking, but they are words and sentences that are “God-breathed.”

This means that God was superintending (managing) the writers so that, allowing them to use using their own individual personalities (and even their own writing styles), they composed and recorded without error His revelations and messages to us.

God’s management and inspiration through his Spirit insured what they wrote was precisely what God wanted written.

So, to answer your question: Yes, all the Bible is the word of God. They are the words he wanted used and allowed to be used. 

 

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

~ John 1:14 (NIV)

 

 

 

OK so now it is without error, right. So if I can prove to you that there are errors in the bible, is the God of the bible then wrong.