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Orbit

Scientific American review of gun violence and control studies

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Yes Orbit, but what will change the hearts and minds of the Gun Cult(ure)?  I don't think facts found in a scientific study will address the emotional need for strongly held beliefs.

 

TLDR for the link:

-"An armed home is not a safer home"

 

-Self defense is very rare

 

-Gun access does not reduce crime.

 

-And when a mistake involves pulling a trigger the damage can't be undone."

 

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Why is America the only country plagued by mass shootings damn near every week? Could it be that we are the only country whose legislators owned by the NRA, a lobby who pushes for zero regulation and easy access for everyone to every firearm imaginable?

 

Why don't other countries without this gun fetish have this problem?  Any reasonable guesses?

 

Not expecting much here because we know logic and common sense make no impact on religious beliefs. And I AM a gun owner, and a pretty good shot to boot. I just haven't lost my mind or joined the Church of NRA.

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43 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

shall we ban cheeseburgers?

 

     Ban them?  Maybe.  At least do something regarding them...*IF*...someone can go into a school and toss them at people and that manages to kill 17 people.  Or someone can throw them out of a Vegas hotel and that results in hundreds of dead and/or injured.  Or people toss them at each other in a drug deal gone bad and they wind up dead or killing an innocent by-stander when that cheeseburger hits the wrong person.  Or if a burglary goes bad and someone dies because a cheeseburger gets used.  Or maybe little Johnny kills his brother because he found a fully loaded cheeseburger and didn't know any better.

 

     Shut the fuck up.  The cheeseburger thing is stupid.

 

          mwc

 

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1 minute ago, Burnedout said:

 

MAKE ME SHUT UP.  It is valid.  Your emotional outburst at me does not negate the logic of my argument. 

     Shut the fuck up.  The cheeseburger thing is stupid.

 

          mwc

 

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2 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

^^ = Another emotional outburst. 

     Shut the fuck up.  The cheeseburger thing is stupid.

 

          mwc

 

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Just now, Burnedout said:

 

You can keep using emotional outbursts, but it doesn't change the fact. 

     That the cheeseburger thing is stupid.  Agreed.  Now, shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

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7 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

NO...my cheeseburger analogy is valid.  Tell me how it is not factual. Is it not a fact that more people die of heart disease?  It is a fact, if you trust the above statistics that more people died of car wrecks.  There is ONE common analogy between cheeseburgers, cars, and firearms, THEY ARE ALL INANIMATE OBJECTS.  The only common denominator among all of them is that PEOPLE used them.  Not all people used them for ill.  In fact, a very tiny tiny tiny minority used them for ill, yet there are those who want to punish the millions of gun owners who have never ever used them for ill.  And THAT IS LOGICAL?  The only opposite arguments are emotional.  What's next?  Free speech being eliminated? 

     I see.  It makes total sense now.  Except...

 

     The cheeseburger thing is stupid.  Shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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4 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

Make me. 

:yelrotflmao:

 

     The cheeseburger thing is stupid.  Shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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Here's the big question: why are Americans resistant to facts? The fact is that more guns mean more gun violence. The article reviews several studies on this. Why the anti-science bias?

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6 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

Wow...somebody has had a gasket blow...LOL.  Are you sure you didn't forget your meds? 

     The cheeseburger thing is stupid.  Shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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6 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

What facts?  You mean that the number of gun deaths is less than car deaths and you want to punish millions of law abiding gun owners because of an extremely minutely small minority that uses them for wrong?  What happened to innocent until proven guilty?  

 

Did you read the article? It seems to me you are having a knee-jerk reaction without considering the facts, or the greater good to society. Clearly we have a problem with the easy availability of AR-15s enabling mass shootings. Sensible restrictions like background checks should be national and universal. Australia eliminated mass shootings by eliminating widespread availability of guns in 1996; the world didn't end, the government didn't oppress the citizens, no civil war or disaster ensued. Sensible is sensible.

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1 minute ago, Burnedout said:

 

Who do you want to take guns away from? 

 

Me personally? Everyone with an AR-15 or similar gun whose only purpose is to kill many people quickly and efficiently. That doesn't mean I wouldn't support something more drastic though, it would depend on the details. Would I cry if you had to give up YOUR gun? No. But this really isn't about me, it's about a society in crisis. We have a mass shooting every week now. Something must be done for the greater good.

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Unemotionally, I concur that the infamous "cheeseburger argument" is both ridiculous and expected.

 

This just in: "Crazed mass murderer attacks dozens with loaded cheeseburgers. More at 11:00."

 

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8 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

 

I know how to rise out of you... :)

     Yep.  That must be it.  Clever boy.

 

     Oh, that cheeseburger thing is stupid.  Shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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Just now, Burnedout said:

 

Let's see, what else has more deaths.  


 

 

Shall we ban doctors next? 

     If they're also using your cheeseburger thing then yes because it's stupid.  Shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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1 minute ago, Burnedout said:

 

But what if you're using a cheeseburger, sould we ban you? 

     If I tried using it in the same lame way you did?  I would know enough to shut the fuck up.  As it is I'm stuck telling you to shut the fuck up.  I don't expect much given that whole stupid cheeseburger thing you said.

 

          mwc

 

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2 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

So, you're against free speech...gotcha. 

     You already, freely, made your stupid cheeseburger speech.  It's free speech not unlimited.  So, shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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24 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

So...you see no problem with a government who, is essentially no different than the mob, other than the fact they are elected, wanting to do the same thing as the mob in using force to take my private property from me.  Congratulations, you are no better than the mob.  

 

Nice ad hominem that deflects, and ignores the issue at hand.

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1 minute ago, Burnedout said:

 

I reject your arbitrary little logic rules.  You are using them to hide form my valid point. 

 

At this point you are not engaging in honest dialog. I'll be ignoring any future nonsense from you.

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Just now, Burnedout said:

 

Well...considering you are not a mod.  You can't make me shut up.  Have fun trying.  ;)

     Again?  Too funny.

 

     That cheeseburger thing is stupid.  Shut the fuck up.

 

          mwc

 

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5 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

I thought you were talking about cause of death.  Are you changing your mind now? 

I know you're just being dense for the self entertainment, but let me clarify.

 

One who dies due to cheeseburgers has been complicit in his own death, and it's the single death of one cheeseburger lover. Those who are victims of any of the 18 mass shootings at schools so far this year, and all the other mass shootings, have had no say in meeting their doom. Kids who die because their little brother found daddy's gun, friends and relatives accidentally shot while entering a home and startling the gun nut who lives there, and the store clerk who dies at the hands of some punk who can get a gun quicker than he can get a haircut are all victims of extreme gun proliferation and the NRA narrative that promotes everyone having access to any kind of firearm, up to and including assault weapons more suited for mercenary troops than the average American citizen who have no legitimate need for them. No other country lives with this situation the way we do every day.

 

Get it? I know you do, but I also know you will continue to play dumb. Enjoy the mindless turmoil!!!

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2 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

So...how is the death of students any more tragic than anyone else.  That is awfully calous of you. 

Come on, you can do better than that!

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In what should be a sensible topic.... shall we invoke Thurs Law?

 

@orbit you asked why Americans are resistant to facts. Consider that upwards of 40% of your population rejects evolution, geology, astronomy and cosmology. Also consider that of that group the vast majority will be Republicans, and the right to bear arms is strongly pushed by the right then you have an idea of the environment we are talking about (Which I'm sure you are well aware of)

 

The other issue is gun culture in America. I don't know any other country in the world that celebrates weapons designed to kill as much as the US does... maybe North Korea comes a close second. You are talking about needing a huge cultural shift in order to get any sensible dialogue going. Discussing gun control is like dissing peoples favourite team and brings out raw emotional feelings.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Burnedout said:

 

So...student deaths are more tragic than say..their parents killed in car wreck? 

You're getting it!!!! The deaths of multiple students was not an accident, it was a deliberate and premeditated mass murder facilitated by lack of any meaningful gun control. I knew you'd understand. ;)

 

But I've no doubt you'll still try to equate car accidents and cholesterol with mass murder. Now go get 'em with your trademark logical arguments supported by facts.

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