Fear

[Learnagain]

I'm new here, my name is Jimmy. I was reading some answers to questions on here regarding freedom. I wanted to ask have any of you dealt with the fear after you leave that what if I'm wrong and God decides that I've been evil to turn away and kills me before my time? I had joy initially leaving, but fear at times now. Sounds funny written out but I'm still dealing with that guilt and fear. I have seen a lot of blessings in christians lives, even my own life things worked out at times very miraculously. Also had a crazy experience as a kid that was witnessed by my siblings regarding ghosts. So I feel bad for doubting the existence of these things. I mean as a kid literally the water would turn on full blast all by itself. Pounding on our roof that would shake the whole house. This was after I asked the devil into my heart (long story). Later became asked christian.  So needless to say I know it sounds crazy, but it happened and so I fear leaving my faith

[midniterider]

Do any of those strange things happen now, as an adult? If so, does anyone else also experience them with you? Why would the almighty God of Abraham pussyfoot around someone's life giving them vague signs of his existence? Signs that are hard to distinguish from random occurrence? Is he the God of confusion? Seems like it. Why would a God who is supposed to be love want to confuse his children?

 

If you've hung out with Christians you have probably heard one say, "I believe God is leading me to do X....." So why aren't they 100% positive? If God was involved wouldn't you know it beyond all doubt that God wanted you to do something? Why would God leave you hanging like that?

 

One of my Christian churchmates once said that he believed God was calling him to the ministry .... then later on when that path didn't work out decided God hadn't really been calling him to the ministry. God lets his children waste their time and effort, I guess. That's what a loving God would do, right?

 

Why is it so important that we believe as opposed to directly experience God in person? A Christian might argue that someone is of better moral fiber somehow if he 'just believes' but if there is [an intelligent] God, wouldn't he/she want people to know first-hand what exactly they were worshiping? I think a smart God would show up and say "Here I am! Let's talk." On the other hand, a devious system of mental and emotional manipulation avoids common sense like that and cooks up illogical bullshit to lock you into a certain pattern of thought. And collect 10% of your income.  

 

Christians enjoy good fortune (they call blessings) and so do non-believers. But I think we mostly create our own standard of life. During Christianity the occasional unsolicited check would appear and we would thank God and go cash it. Since deconversion the occasional unsolicited check appears and we may or may not thank some imaginary being and then go cash it. I doubt it's God sending me checks. Maybe shit just happens.

 

What does it say about a God who kills you on purpose because you don't love him? Maybe we have a better idea of what love is than God does. Have you put these questions to God?

 

About the only 'supernatural feeling' I got as a Christian was a vague euphoria while praying. But I also can induce that myself by other non-religious means.

 

So what made you deconvert?

 

Check out the Godless in Dixie link on this thread: It deals with the lack of achaeological evidence of the events in the first 5 books of the bible. 

 

[PaleLady]

The short answer is yes.

Listen, the deconversion process is not always an easy, short one, especially when you've spent decades immersed in the funny Kool aid juice.

What helps me is to find videos or essays or books from prominent atheists with which you connect, and listen to/read their words.  George Carlin is my guy and when those "what if you're wrong" thoughts start creeping into my mind, I find that YouTube video of him (religion is bullshit).  Clears me right up!    

 

[Learnagain]

Midniterider- Thank you for your response. No none of this has ever happened since being an adult, no water pressure issues or banging on the roof since I was about 11 yrs old. During that time it was witnessed by all my siblings. Even my mom witnessed on one occassion.

It's a very long story so I will generalize it for now,  but  I deconverted after working as a hospice nurse for several years. Saw some very tough deaths. Prayed for healing and prayed for peace etc. A 4 yo little girl died of brain cancer, parents were christian (this is important I think to note, because many Christians imagine it never happens to christians), and I prayed desperately for healing, just to myself, as did her parents. I watched her decline further losing her ability to talk and move then die. When she died her dad held her little body and would not allow the funeral home to take her. He just held her silently. After this,  I started thinking its easier to not believe than to think a loving God had this in his plan. I have 5 kids myself and thought what if he did that to me? I thought, i wouldnt do this as a plan for any of my own kids. I thought i cant believe in God because then i will only hate God. Also I thought God will have to explain any other miracle people claim to have, because he didnt heal this little girl. The realization that this happens to parents and their children everyday pushed me away.   I had left church like 5 years prior after burnt out from constant striving to get close to God. I was a missionary, preacher, sunday school teacher, all that, studied the bible and prayed constantly. I constantly would cycle through love and fear. Anyway I think I hit the main points I thought of stuff as I wrote so a little out of order. Take care. 

[Learnagain]

41 minutes ago, midniterider said:

Midniterider, I responded to your question. Not sure how to respond on here. No respond button. Do I just click quote? I ended up just going to answer this question button and answering

 

41 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

 

[midniterider]

Try clicking the None of This Really Happened. It's a link to a thread on this site.

[Learnagain]

6 minutes ago, midniterider said:

Try clicking the None of This Really Happened. It's a link to a thread on this site.

Did you see my response to your question about deconversion?

 

[midniterider]

18 minutes ago, Learnagain said:

Midniterider- Thank you for your response. No none of this has ever happened since being an adult, no water pressure issues or banging on the roof since I was about 11 yrs old. During that time it was witnessed by all my siblings. Even my mom witnessed on one occassion.

It's a very long story so I will generalize it for now,  but  I deconverted after working as a hospice nurse for several years. Saw some very tough deaths. Prayed for healing and prayed for peace etc. A 4 yo little girl died of brain cancer, parents were christian (this is important I think to note, because many Christians imagine it never happens to christians), and I prayed desperately for healing, just to myself, as did her parents. I watched her decline further losing her ability to talk and move then die. When she died her dad held her little body and would not allow the funeral home to take her. He just held her silently. After this,  I started thinking its easier to not believe than to think a loving God had this in his plan. I have 5 kids myself and thought what if he did that to me? I thought, i wouldnt do this as a plan for any of my own kids. I thought i cant believe in God because then i will only hate God. Also I thought God will have to explain any other miracle people claim to have, because he didnt heal this little girl. The realization that this happens to parents and their children everyday pushed me away.   I had left church like 5 years prior after burnt out from constant striving to get close to God. I was a missionary, preacher, sunday school teacher, all that, studied the bible and prayed constantly. I constantly would cycle through love and fear. Anyway I think I hit the main points I thought of stuff as I wrote so a little out of order. Take care. 

 

I'm glad you made it out of the Christianity mind prison. Give yourself time to begin thinking differently. Palelady has good advice. Watch George Carlin or Tim Minchin.

[midniterider]

3 minutes ago, Learnagain said:

Did you see my response to your question about deconversion?

 

 

Yes, thanks for sharing. Hospice nurse is a tough job. I couldn't watch people head down to their last days. Bad enough I watched both my parents disappear after a couple weeks in hospice care. I salute you for what you do. There's an ex-timony section somewhere on this site if you want to expand on your deconversion.

 

Mine was pretty simple. I didnt like following rules in the bible, got tired of being told what to think and what not to think, so I said bye bye. God never asked for an exit interview.

 

 

[Learnagain]

11 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Yes, thanks for sharing. Hospice nurse is a tough job. I couldn't watch people head down to their last days. Bad enough I watched both my parents disappear after a couple weeks in hospice care. I salute you for what you do. There's an ex-timony section somewhere on this site if you want to expand on your deconversion.

 

Mine was pretty simple. I didnt like following rules in the bible, got tired of being told what to think and what not to think, so I said bye bye. God never asked for an exit interview.

 

 

I hear you on that. See my christianity kept morphing, and I reasoned that this was growth. So though i hated the rules i reasoned that i needed to mystify a bunch of them to make them fit. I had a pretty powerful conversion experience while in juvenile detention, where I believed for the first time that God loved me, it changed my entire life. I went from a criminal to a preacher, missionary etc. So it was very difficult for me to give up. Very very painful. Makes me tear up. 

[mymistake]

Welcome Learnagain.  I experienced that.  Basically I told myself it was an emotional reaction to coincidences and I pushed through my fear.  Eventually the feelings went away.  

 

Keep up the good work!

[midniterider]

4 minutes ago, Learnagain said:

I hear you on that. See my christianity kept morphing, and I reasoned that this was growth. So though i hated the rules i reasoned that i needed to mystify a bunch of them to make them fit. I had a pretty powerful conversion experience while in juvenile detention, where I believed for the first time that God loved me, it changed my entire life. I went from a criminal to a preacher, missionary etc. So it was very difficult for me to give up. Very very painful. Makes me tear up. 

 

Well, I can see where if you felt God put you on the straight and narrow then it would be harder to give up. You would not want to drop something that had given you a fundamental life change for the better. It's probably difficult trying to reconcile a powerful conversion experience with your daily work experience of watching a child wither away and die needlessly. My go-to explanation for bad events was that God allowed these things to happen so that people would rush to him for help or consolation. But that doesn't help much for the dead. Just the survivors. What would be more helpful , of course, is to not let 4 year old girls die of brain cancer. 

 

So the Christian says "It's God's will", which is probably along the lines of the secular "shit happens."

 

 

[ContraBardus]

Religious indoctrination is literally designed to do this to you. Understanding that helps.

 

Pascal's Wager is the most common way to put it.

 

It essentially states that humans wager with their lives whether God exists or not.

 

However, that's true no matter what belief system you adhere to. If you're a Catholic you're betting that, Jehova's Witnesses, Baptists, Evangelicals, and any other type of Christian is wrong. Most of them don't outright say it, but believe that any other type of Christian is doomed along with everyone else, and that only their particular type will be saved. They can't all be right.

 

That's not even getting into the other religions. Maybe the Jews are right, or what if Zeus, or Allah, or Krishna, or Amaterasu, or Odin, or Crom, or whatever other religion's Gods are the true ones? What then?

 

What if it's none of the above? What if the true God is some unknown or forgotten God that doesn't like any of the modern religions?

 

The whole situation is a catch 22 where you're putting your chips down on a chance no matter what you do. Being Christian does not increase your odds of being right as Pascal's Wager intends to imply.

 

If anything, the most rational choice is none of the above. Reasoning and logic are fairly consistent and pretty easily poke holes in the concepts of specific deities. It only gets sketchy when you start getting into the vague notion of a Deistic God with no real qualities attributed to it. If that's the case, it's undefined and doesn't matter anyway.

 

Basically, follow what the evidence supports. Remember, those who are making a claim are the ones with the burden of proof. If someone says that something exists, they must prove that it does, and no one has any obligation to prove that it does not.

 

 

 

[Learnagain]

29 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

Religious indoctrination is literally designed to do this to you. Understanding that helps.

 

Pascal's Wager is the most common way to put it.

 

It essentially states that humans wager with their lives whether God exists or not.

 

However, that's true no matter what belief system you adhere to. If you're a Catholic you're betting that, Jehova's Witnesses, Baptists, Evangelicals, and any other type of Christian is wrong. Most of them don't outright say it, but believe that any other type of Christian is doomed along with everyone else, and that only their particular type will be saved. They can't all be right.

 

That's not even getting into the other religions. Maybe the Jews are right, or what if Zeus, or Allah, or Krishna, or Amaterasu, or Odin, or Crom, or whatever other religion's Gods are the true ones? What then?

 

What if it's none of the above? What if the true God is some unknown or forgotten God that doesn't like any of the modern religions?

 

The whole situation is a catch 22 where you're putting your chips down on a chance no matter what you do. Being Christian does not increase your odds of being right as Pascal's Wager intends to imply.

 

If anything, the most rational choice is none of the above. Reasoning and logic are fairly consistent and pretty easily poke holes in the concepts of specific deities. It only gets sketchy when you start getting into the vague notion of a Deistic God with no real qualities attributed to it. If that's the case, it's undefined and doesn't matter anyway.

 

Basically, follow what the evidence supports. Remember, those who are making a claim are the ones with the burden of proof. If someone says that something exists, they must prove that it does, and no one has any obligation to prove that it does not.

 

 

 

Thank you for you input I really appreciate it. 

[Learnagain]

51 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Well, I can see where if you felt God put you on the straight and narrow then it would be harder to give up. You would not want to drop something that had given you a fundamental life change for the better. It's probably difficult trying to reconcile a powerful conversion experience with your daily work experience of watching a child wither away and die needlessly. My go-to explanation for bad events was that God allowed these things to happen so that people would rush to him for help or consolation. But that doesn't help much for the dead. Just the survivors. What would be more helpful , of course, is to not let 4 year old girls die of brain cancer. 

 

So the Christian says "It's God's will", which is probably along the lines of the secular "shit happens."

 

 

Agreed thank you for your help!!

[Anushka]

I donno if my answer will help you, but there are a lot of places in the bible where God promises physical protection, money, wealth, family to those who love him.

Now look around you... Does the world you live in have people whose needs of the above are met? No. Christians get raped, molested, killed,physically assaulted, robbed, they get laid off their jobs, are unable to find husbands or wives for themselves, even though they pray and believe for all these things by faith. Isn't this the proof that the bible isn't the word of God? The bible is pure fiction.

I experienced poverty (after I became close to God) for over an year for no goddamn reason AFTER I started confiding in my crazy Christian controlling friend who directed me to Joyce Meyer. Joyce led me to make and see problems where there were none.

I am not in poverty any more. My prayers for wisdom and direction never got answered. I lived a godly life, I prayed, tithed, helped the poor, read the bible, forgave like hell! But, no voice guided me. Let me assure you- guidance in your life decisions is promised in the Bible.

I got molested as a child- where was God then?

The Biblical God does not exist. If he did, more good things would have happened to people- rather than dumb stupid things like finding your lost car keys because you prayed or getting into your choice of college. 

So, the God you fear does not exist.

 

[quinntar]

8 hours ago, Learnagain said:

I'm new here, my name is Jimmy. I was reading some answers to questions on here regarding freedom. I wanted to ask have any of you dealt with the fear after you leave that what if I'm wrong and God decides that I've been evil to turn away and kills me before my time? I had joy initially leaving, but fear at times now. Sounds funny written out but I'm still dealing with that guilt and fear. I have seen a lot of blessings in christians lives, even my own life things worked out at times very miraculously. Also had a crazy experience as a kid that was witnessed by my siblings regarding ghosts. So I feel bad for doubting the existence of these things. I mean as a kid literally the water would turn on full blast all by itself. Pounding on our roof that would shake the whole house. This was after I asked the devil into my heart (long story). Later became asked christian.  So needless to say I know it sounds crazy, but it happened and so I fear leaving my faith

You fear because Christianity feds on your fears, but once you get past all the superstitious beliefs the fear devolves. 

[Learnagain]

2 hours ago, Anushka said:

I donno if my answer will help you, but there are a lot of places in the bible where God promises physical protection, money, wealth, family to those who love him.

Now look around you... Does the world you live in have people whose needs of the above are met? No. Christians get raped, molested, killed,physically assaulted, robbed, they get laid off their jobs, are unable to find husbands or wives for themselves, even though they pray and believe for all these things by faith. Isn't this the proof that the bible isn't the word of God? The bible is pure fiction.

I experienced poverty (after I became close to God) for over an year for no goddamn reason AFTER I started confiding in my crazy Christian controlling friend who directed me to Joyce Meyer. Joyce led me to make and see problems where there were none.

I am not in poverty any more. My prayers for wisdom and direction never got answered. I lived a godly life, I prayed, tithed, helped the poor, read the bible, forgave like hell! But, no voice guided me. Let me assure you- guidance in your life decisions is promised in the Bible.

I got molested as a child- where was God then?

The Biblical God does not exist. If he did, more good things would have happened to people- rather than dumb stupid things like finding your lost car keys because you prayed or getting into your choice of college. 

So, the God you fear does not exist.

 

I continued to believe for a long time because jesus said in this world you will have trouble, but take heart I have overcome the world. I have read the bible many times. I welcomed suffering because the bible says when we suffer we are blessed. When we are persecuted we are blessed. That is the psychology behind it. Joyce Meyers was always a false prosperity preacher to me. Out of touch with reality. There are real sincere christians out there who really want to know god. Not control or take advantage of people. I just think it doesn't pan out like you mentioned the sufreeing just for character building doesn't make sense.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

It is not unusual to have doubts as you are leaving, and even after leaving.  One of the things that scared me was the stories I heard as a child of how "backsliders" usually "went to the dogs" after leaving the faith.  But my sinful inclinations did not increase.  If anything I became more moral.  Decided to do the right things simply because they were the right thing to do do. Not just to keep me from going to hell.