my thoughts for today

[shelleymak6376]

 

So, it took me about 3 days to read through this guy's xtimony (trying to read off & on while at work is difficult).  His name is Kendall Hobbs and he wrote "Why I am no longer a Christian."  It was WELL WORTH the read!  A lot of what he said, his journey, his past beliefs, I could relate to.  And he had some amazing insight to share as well for his deconversion.  So I thought I'd share with all of you!!   Let me know what you think!!

https://infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/hobbs.html

 

Just fyi - I am newly ex-Christian and currently in the "shock & awe" phase of deconversion.   I am just without words when thinking about the CULT I was involved in.  I literally shake my head every time I think about all those years I spent in Christianity, specifically the Baptist denomination.

 

Anyways, this is one of my favorite paragraphs from the article - it really hit home for me as I was always taught to pray for everything.  Even the "little" things like finding my car keys or to do well on a test at school.  And of course the "big" things too... like good health, healing from diseases, etc etc.  There was nothing too big or small for God.  Everything is important to him.  Hmmm.... really?

 

"But how could it have all been just misinterpretations? I mean, I really saw and felt God work in my life. Then again, thinking more carefully about it, could I really say that God helped me find my keys, do well on a test, help me make a wise choice about which college to go to, help me make some friends, let me make at least some small difference in the lives of a few of the homeless people at the shelter I volunteered at? Why did God answer those prayers of mine when he ignored the prayers of Christian parents whose children were suffering from chemotherapy treatments as they were dying of leukemia? And if he did, how could I justify worshipping a God whose priorities were that screwed up? Wasn't it horribly self-centered of me to thank God for taking time from his busy schedule to help me find my keys when he could have been saving a child from being raped and murdered? Maybe I found my keys because I looked for them. Maybe I did well on my test because I studied. Maybe I spent a lot of time comparing colleges, maybe I spent a lot of time getting to know other people, maybe my own small efforts to help a homeless family make it through a rough stretch while they looked for a new job and a new affordable place to live, maybe that was enough on its own. Would any of it have happened if I had done nothing but prayed? Would it have happened had I looked, studied, helped, and not prayed? I had always been taught that it was sinful pride to take credit for the good that God was doing through me. But which is really more arrogant: to take credit for that which I am able to accomplish on my own, or to conclude that The God Of The Universe took such a special interest in me that he helped me find my keys while he ignored a whole city inundated by a flood? It seemed to make more sense to conclude that what I thought of as God's involvement was just my own involvement."

 

The reason it really slapped me in the face is the part that says (god) "ignored the prayers of christian parents whose children were suffering from chemotherapy treatments as they were dying of leukemia"......that was my sister.  She died of Leukemia at the age of 12.  I was 6.

 

I started thinking about all those times my parents prayed for her.  This was one of those "big" things.  The major things to pray for.  For the pain to be taken away.  For the medicines to work this time.  For the cancer not to keep growing.  For chemo to work.  For someone to find a cure before it was too late.  For her hair to grow back so she wouldn't be made fun of at school.  For her healing.  For her to live just a little while longer...

 

My mom actually told me that while she was praying to God one day for him to save her daughter, that Satan... yes, SATAN... spoke to her with an audible voice.  She said that he said "if you will worship me, I will save your daughter."  She said that she told him "I will never worship you.  I would rather give up my daughter than worship you. "  She said she told him he was a liar and couldn't save her anyways.  Only God could do that.  (or something to that effect).  I always thought it was a cool story & my mom told me many "supernatural" stories like that over the years.  I had no reason not to believe her.  I mean, I grew up believing a snake actually spoke to someone & told them what to do & caused the "fall of man".  smh.

 

I was always told this with regards to my sister's passing:  while it was unfair & we will never truly understand why, it must have been God's will for her life & ours.  And the good thing is that we will see her again one day.   And that cancer is just part of this whole sin thing.  Because Adam & Eve sinned, they basically cursed the earth.  And that's why there is cancers, etc.  And I just went along with it.  .  

 

Years later, I was also told to pray for those "little things" also.  Can't find your car keys? - jut pray.  Need help with a test? - just pray.  Not sure what college to go to? - just pray.  And while those things are important I guess in their own way - why did God answer those prayers of mine, but ignored those of my parents?  Like Kendall said "this God of the Universe took such a special interest in me that he helped me find my car keys while he ignored (my sister dying from leukemia)".    It just doesn't make any sense!  

 

Now some Christians would be quick to read between the lines in my words and say that I'm mad at god for taking my sister.  I've turned away from god because he didn't heal her.   That's not the case at all.  Actually I don't remember anything about my sister.  I wouldn't be able to tell you what she looks like if it wasn't for pictures.  I have no memories of her, of us.   Everything I know about her is from my parents telling me about her.  I do not remember her being sick, dying, her funeral.....nothing.  I've often wondered if the lack of memories was my brain's way of coping with the grief?  I don't know.  I was only 6 at the time.  But nevertheless, because I have no memories of her or the situation, it never affected me the way you would think a sibling dying would affect someone.   I never cried out to god asking him why he took my sister.  I never thought "I wish she could be here now.  I wish she could see me do this."  It was almost like I never even had a sister - because I have absolutely no memory of her.  Now that I'm older, of course those thoughts cross my mind from time to time.  But its more of "I wonder what she would look like now?  Would she be married & have a family?  Would we be best of friends?" etc.

 

Sorry for the rambling.........just so much going through my mind!  But reading this guys xtimony just confirmed so many things for me.  This "god" I've been following all my life... lies.   This religion... fake, made up.   

I'm not mad... I feel more like an idiot than anything else.  Like I was duped.   They got me.  Remember that old MTV show? 

I was PUNK'D.  Cue the cameras. 

 

Ps.  My sister's name was Jennifer  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[florduh]

Sorry for you loss, even if you don't remember.

[shelleymak6376]

14 minutes ago, florduh said:

Sorry for you loss, even if you don't remember.

Aww, thank you <3

[Deathportal365]

I will plan to read Kendall's story when I can. These thoughts have been on my mind for a while. I too am still closer to the beginning of the deconversion process than the end. Although, if I'm honest with myself, the wheels fell off the wagon when my best friend died of cancer in 2010, at age 29. I believed--as did he--that God would heal him. We prayed endlessly that he would pull through. If the prayer did anything good, it was this: he and I both kept a positive attitude through it all, and he fought to live with everything he had. No thanks to "god" needed. My friend's fighting spirit was his own. 

 

His sister died almost exactly a year ago. Their sickly, medicated parents still believe in the power of prayer to heal (and claim they've seen it), that god can and will intervene and circumvent inevitability because he loves them. I want to tell them, if Christianity were true, you'd still have to acknowledge that you have lost more children than god. 

 

When you realize just how pervasive human tragedy and suffering is, the "great sacrifice" of Christianity is minimized. Many, many people have sacrificed far more than one person being executed (who supposedly rose anyway!)...if Jesus was really crucified, it wasn't any more of an ultimate sacrifice than anyone else's. It was likely just another day.

[quinntar]

1 hour ago, shelleymak6376 said:

 

So, it took me about 3 days to read through this guy's xtimony (trying to read off & on while at work is difficult).  His name is Kendall Hobbs and he wrote "Why I am no longer a Christian."  It was WELL WORTH the read!  A lot of what he said, his journey, his past beliefs, I could relate to.  And he had some amazing insight to share as well for his deconversion.  So I thought I'd share with all of you!!   Let me know what you think!!

https://infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/hobbs.html

 

Just fyi - I am newly ex-Christian and currently in the "shock & awe" phase of deconversion.   I am just without words when thinking about the CULT I was involved in.  I literally shake my head every time I think about all those years I spent in Christianity, specifically the Baptist denomination.

 

Anyways, this is one of my favorite paragraphs from the article - it really hit home for me as I was always taught to pray for everything.  Even the "little" things like finding my car keys or to do well on a test at school.  And of course the "big" things too... like good health, healing from diseases, etc etc.  There was nothing too big or small for God.  Everything is important to him.  Hmmm.... really?

 

"But how could it have all been just misinterpretations? I mean, I really saw and felt God work in my life. Then again, thinking more carefully about it, could I really say that God helped me find my keys, do well on a test, help me make a wise choice about which college to go to, help me make some friends, let me make at least some small difference in the lives of a few of the homeless people at the shelter I volunteered at? Why did God answer those prayers of mine when he ignored the prayers of Christian parents whose children were suffering from chemotherapy treatments as they were dying of leukemia? And if he did, how could I justify worshipping a God whose priorities were that screwed up? Wasn't it horribly self-centered of me to thank God for taking time from his busy schedule to help me find my keys when he could have been saving a child from being raped and murdered? Maybe I found my keys because I looked for them. Maybe I did well on my test because I studied. Maybe I spent a lot of time comparing colleges, maybe I spent a lot of time getting to know other people, maybe my own small efforts to help a homeless family make it through a rough stretch while they looked for a new job and a new affordable place to live, maybe that was enough on its own. Would any of it have happened if I had done nothing but prayed? Would it have happened had I looked, studied, helped, and not prayed? I had always been taught that it was sinful pride to take credit for the good that God was doing through me. But which is really more arrogant: to take credit for that which I am able to accomplish on my own, or to conclude that The God Of The Universe took such a special interest in me that he helped me find my keys while he ignored a whole city inundated by a flood? It seemed to make more sense to conclude that what I thought of as God's involvement was just my own involvement."

 

The reason it really slapped me in the face is the part that says (god) "ignored the prayers of christian parents whose children were suffering from chemotherapy treatments as they were dying of leukemia"......that was my sister.  She died of Leukemia at the age of 12.  I was 6.

 

I started thinking about all those times my parents prayed for her.  This was one of those "big" things.  The major things to pray for.  For the pain to be taken away.  For the medicines to work this time.  For the cancer not to keep growing.  For chemo to work.  For someone to find a cure before it was too late.  For her hair to grow back so she wouldn't be made fun of at school.  For her healing.  For her to live just a little while longer...

 

My mom actually told me that while she was praying to God one day for him to save her daughter, that Satan... yes, SATAN... spoke to her with an audible voice.  She said that he said "if you will worship me, I will save your daughter."  She said that she told him "I will never worship you.  I would rather give up my daughter than worship you. "  She said she told him he was a liar and couldn't save her anyways.  Only God could do that.  (or something to that effect).  I always thought it was a cool story & my mom told me many "supernatural" stories like that over the years.  I had no reason not to believe her.  I mean, I grew up believing a snake actually spoke to someone & told them what to do & caused the "fall of man".  smh.

 

I was always told this with regards to my sister's passing:  while it was unfair & we will never truly understand why, it must have been God's will for her life & ours.  And the good thing is that we will see her again one day.   And that cancer is just part of this whole sin thing.  Because Adam & Eve sinned, they basically cursed the earth.  And that's why there is cancers, etc.  And I just went along with it.  .  

 

Years later, I was also told to pray for those "little things" also.  Can't find your car keys? - jut pray.  Need help with a test? - just pray.  Not sure what college to go to? - just pray.  And while those things are important I guess in their own way - why did God answer those prayers of mine, but ignored those of my parents?  Like Kendall said "this God of the Universe took such a special interest in me that he helped me find my car keys while he ignored (my sister dying from leukemia)".    It just doesn't make any sense!  

 

Now some Christians would be quick to read between the lines in my words and say that I'm mad at god for taking my sister.  I've turned away from god because he didn't heal her.   That's not the case at all.  Actually I don't remember anything about my sister.  I wouldn't be able to tell you what she looks like if it wasn't for pictures.  I have no memories of her, of us.   Everything I know about her is from my parents telling me about her.  I do not remember her being sick, dying, her funeral.....nothing.  I've often wondered if the lack of memories was my brain's way of coping with the grief?  I don't know.  I was only 6 at the time.  But nevertheless, because I have no memories of her or the situation, it never affected me the way you would think a sibling dying would affect someone.   I never cried out to god asking him why he took my sister.  I never thought "I wish she could be here now.  I wish she could see me do this."  It was almost like I never even had a sister - because I have absolutely no memory of her.  Now that I'm older, of course those thoughts cross my mind from time to time.  But its more of "I wonder what she would look like now?  Would she be married & have a family?  Would we be best of friends?" etc.

 

Sorry for the rambling.........just so much going through my mind!  But reading this guys xtimony just confirmed so many things for me.  This "god" I've been following all my life... lies.   This religion... fake, made up.   

I'm not mad... I feel more like an idiot than anything else.  Like I was duped.   They got me.  Remember that old MTV show? 

I was PUNK'D.  Cue the cameras. 

 

Ps.  My sister's name was Jennifer  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion cause's disparity, and unrealistic views of life and death.

 

My personal view is that if someone who has not had the opportunity to learn in this reality goes to a place called bliss. Bliss is a temporary static environment where there is no sense of time. The soul of a person remains there until a suitable body is born, and then the soul re-enters reality and starts the learning process again.

 

These are my own idea's about life and death, and you can discover your own.

 

All without religion.

[1989]

I don't know if I've ever really understood prayer.  Doesn't an omniscient God know what I need?  Why do I need to ask?  Is it to eliminate pride by having to grovel?  I hear a lot about humbling oneself to God, but how humble does one have to be to be cured of a fatal disease?  Does God get off on desperation?

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

1 hour ago, 1989 said:

I don't know if I've ever really understood prayer.  Doesn't an omniscient God know what I need?  Why do I need to ask?  Is it to eliminate pride by having to grovel?  I hear a lot about humbling oneself to God, but how humble does one have to be to be cured of a fatal disease?  Does God get off on desperation?

It's particularly weird when you come from a Calvinist background... because some Calvinists will actually admit prayer doesn't work and consider the suggestion that prayer works as blasphemous (because who are YOU to dictate GOD'S WILL). Oddly enough, they still pray, though, I guess as a way of prostrating themselves in front of God and masochistically reminding themselves how small they are in comparison to him. I think both the unrealistically positive and negative interpretations of prayer stems from a very human tendency to dramatize their life.

 

There might be some psychological benefits, though, by ritualistically expressing and processing one's emotions. I personally prefer meditation in this sense... in that it isn't necessarily attached to a dramatization or a mythologization about the nature of reality or god. 

[shelleymak6376]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 4:00 PM, Deathportal365 said:

I will plan to read Kendall's story when I can. These thoughts have been on my mind for a while. I too am still closer to the beginning of the deconversion process than the end. Although, if I'm honest with myself, the wheels fell off the wagon when my best friend died of cancer in 2010, at age 29. I believed--as did he--that God would heal him. We prayed endlessly that he would pull through. If the prayer did anything good, it was this: he and I both kept a positive attitude through it all, and he fought to live with everything he had. No thanks to "god" needed. My friend's fighting spirit was his own. 

 

His sister died almost exactly a year ago. Their sickly, medicated parents still believe in the power of prayer to heal (and claim they've seen it), that god can and will intervene and circumvent inevitability because he loves them. I want to tell them, if Christianity were true, you'd still have to acknowledge that you have lost more children than god. 

 

When you realize just how pervasive human tragedy and suffering is, the "great sacrifice" of Christianity is minimized. Many, many people have sacrificed far more than one person being executed (who supposedly rose anyway!)...if Jesus was really crucified, it wasn't any more of an ultimate sacrifice than anyone else's. It was likely just another day.

@Deathportal365  So sorry about your best friend and his sister... that is so terrible.  I am so very sorry for your loss.   

 

... "it wasn't any more of an ultimate sacrifice than anyone else's".  Never thought of it that way!  Thank you for that insight!

[shelleymak6376]

@theanticrash  "all without religion"... exactly!  Thanks for sharing your ideas on life/death.  Very interesting!   I have never heard of "bliss" before... 

 

@1989  I've often thought the same thing.  Why am I praying if he already knows what I want and he has already decided the outcome?  Seems pointless.  And like you said, is it to make us humble - having to ASK for everything?   Eh, no thanks.  I'm good.

[Guest end3]

Have you formed a theory about life outside of religion/Christianity yet Shelly?  Granted you got the full meal deal as a pastor's wife I'm guessing.  Just interested to see what you think the purpose of life is.....if it has a purpose.

[Realist]

8 hours ago, end3 said:

Have you formed a theory about life outside of religion/Christianity yet Shelly?  Granted you got the full meal deal as a pastor's wife I'm guessing.  Just interested to see what you think the purpose of life is.....if it has a purpose.

So End ... a question for you?

 

What is the "purpose" in life for a chimp? A dog? A cat?  It is absolutely NO different to ours!

Once they lose consciousness, as with us, life's purpose is over!

 

There is a vast difference though from "purpose" in life to giving life "meaning."

 

I am copying shelleymak6376 details here. These are examples of what gives her "meaning" to life: 

"Family, running, hiking, swimming, and champagne"

 

 

 

[mymistake]

8 hours ago, end3 said:

Have you formed a theory about life outside of religion/Christianity yet Shelly?  Granted you got the full meal deal as a pastor's wife I'm guessing.  Just interested to see what you think the purpose of life is.....if it has a purpose.

 

 

Give it a try sometime and find out for yourself.

[mymistake]

On 3/9/2018 at 11:54 AM, shelleymak6376 said:

 

So, it took me about 3 days to read through this guy's xtimony (trying to read off & on while at work is difficult).  His name is Kendall Hobbs and he wrote "Why I am no longer a Christian."  It was WELL WORTH the read!  A lot of what he said, his journey, his past beliefs, I could relate to.  And he had some amazing insight to share as well for his deconversion.  So I thought I'd share with all of you!!   Let me know what you think!!

https://infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/hobbs.html

 

<snip>

 

Ps.  My sister's name was Jennifer  

 

 

It always saddens me how much harm Christianity does to families and lives . . . all for the sake of making the priest/pastor rich.

[Deathportal365]

On 3/12/2018 at 9:45 AM, shelleymak6376 said:

@Deathportal365  So sorry about your best friend and his sister... that is so terrible.  I am so very sorry for your loss.   

 

... "it wasn't any more of an ultimate sacrifice than anyone else's".  Never thought of it that way!  Thank you for that insight!

You're welcome! I occasionally just post things here that rattle around in my head for a while. I'm glad when they resonate with others!

 

And, thank you for your condolences. I should have paused for a moment and offered them to you for the loss of your sister. On that subject, in the time since she passed, how often did you hear "praise Jesus! He healed Jennifer!" or something to that effect? I heard that a lot after Josh died. Now I view death as a common, unfortunate outcome associated with cancer. And whether there is something beyond this life or not, I find the notion of giving some absentee entity praise and glory in the midst of profound grief to be missing the mark, to say the least.

[shelleymak6376]

@Deathportal365  Oh no worries at all - but thank you for the condolences also!    And yes, I have heard that quite a bit.  "She is healed now.  She is no longer suffering."   I was brought up to believe that we give god the glory in ALL situations.  So no matter if something good happens (healing) or something bad (death)... we praise god and thank him for his goodness and faithfulness and mercy, etc etc.  Now that I am no longer a Christian, I look back and think that makes no sense at all.  Why am I thanking him for his mercy when he was clearly unmerciful with regards to my sister.  She was 12.  What horrible thing could she have done at that point in her life to not deserve mercy?  But Christians have such awesome responses such as "well we will never fully understand why he chose to take her to heaven"... "but it is because of sin in the world, that's why she had cancer to begin with".  If there was no sin in the world, we would all be perfect.  No death, no sickness.   But because of Adam & Eve's choices, we do have sin & thus all of the problems in the world.  Those are things I heard growing up.  So basically sin is the reason for everything "bad" in this world and god may or may not choose to intervene.  We can petition through prayer but that doesn't mean he will fix the problem.  And regardless, we are still to praise him & give him thanks.  

 

SMH - I can't.

It's so ridiculous writing it out & actually listening to myself & the things I used to believe...

lol

 

 

[shelleymak6376]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:45 PM, end3 said:

Have you formed a theory about life outside of religion/Christianity yet Shelly?  Granted you got the full meal deal as a pastor's wife I'm guessing.  Just interested to see what you think the purpose of life is.....if it has a purpose.

No theories on anything just yet.... and I kinda like it that way.  lol.  Newly deconverted & sorting through everything!  Stay tuned

 

[shelleymak6376]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, mymistake said:

 

 

It always saddens me how much harm Christianity does to families and lives . . . all for the sake of making the priest/pastor rich.

I agree - somewhat.  haha.  Being a pastor's wife for many years, I would have to say that we were NEVER rich.  We barely survived.  My ex-husband (the minister) never made more than $20-25k from any of the churches he worked at.  He had to supplement with a 2nd job in order for us to be able to pay our bills & support our family.  The ministry job was basically just PT even though it took up most of our lives.  So he worked a typical FT job during the week and then worked at the church all day Sunday & Wednesday nights and any other day/night the church was having a function.  Not to mention visitation, hospital visits, vacation bible schools, etc.  The church expects A LOT from its ministers but usually pays very little.  At least that was the case at most of the southern Baptist churches that we were members of throughout the years.

 

Now there are definitely mega-church pastors that are rich, live in mansions, drive fancy cars, etc..... but I'd say there are probably more pastors/priests that were like us (barely getting by) than those super-rich kind.  

 

But yes, you are exactly right - Christianity does so much harm to families.  All for the sake of the "Lord's work".  My ex-husband was gone ALL of the time.  Always doing the "lord's work" and taking care of the "church family" and never actually spending time with his own family.  That's ultimately what led to the demise of our marriage.... go figure.

[Guest end3]

1 hour ago, shelleymak6376 said:

But yes, you are exactly right - Christianity does so much harm to families.  All for the sake of the "Lord's work".  My ex-husband was gone ALL of the time.  Always doing the "lord's work" and taking care of the "church family" and never actually spending time with his own family.  That's ultimately what led to the demise of our marriage.... go figure.

I'm not trying to be an ass Shelley, and I will gladly take my thoughts elsewhere as this is a site to foster ex Christians, but reading this made me think that because your husband was gone, Christianity became the scapegoat in this situation. 

[mymistake]

1 hour ago, shelleymak6376 said:

I agree - somewhat.  haha.  Being a pastor's wife for many years, I would have to say that we were NEVER rich.  We barely survived.  My ex-husband (the minister) never made more than $20-25k from any of the churches he worked at.  He had to supplement with a 2nd job in order for us to be able to pay our bills & support our family.  The ministry job was basically just PT even though it took up most of our lives.  So he worked a typical FT job during the week and then worked at the church all day Sunday & Wednesday nights and any other day/night the church was having a function.  Not to mention visitation, hospital visits, vacation bible schools, etc.  The church expects A LOT from its ministers but usually pays very little.  At least that was the case at most of the southern Baptist churches that we were members of throughout the years.

 

Sorry to hear about your struggles.  That happens because there are too many pastors and the market is flooded.  My city has a church on almost every block.  The more churches there are the fewer supporters are available for each one.  I have a cousin who is in the same boat.  He is an associate pastor who can barely feed his family.  But he doesn't have enough raw talent to start his own church which means he has to work for another pastor in an area where there are already too many churches.  Mega churches are where the money is at because one guy gets to keep the tithes of thousands of people.  Maintaining a big church isn't that much more expensive than maintaining a little church.  The trick it keeping the church full and big, modern churches attract the most interest.

 

 

[shelleymak6376]

14 minutes ago, end3 said:

I'm not trying to be an ass Shelley, and I will gladly take my thoughts elsewhere as this is a site to foster ex Christians, but reading this made me think that because your husband was gone, Christianity became the scapegoat in this situation. 

Feel free to think however you want  

[mymistake]

1 hour ago, end3 said:

I'm not trying to be an ass Shelley, and I will gladly take my thoughts elsewhere as this is a site to foster ex Christians, but reading this made me think that because you husband was gone, Christianity became the scapegoat in this situation. 

 

Learn what the word scapegoat means.  Something can't be a scapegoat when it is the cause.  If a job requires 50 hours of work but pays like one that should only require 25 hours then the job is not innocent.  Now it would be one thing if the entire job market sucks but in this case the driving factor is religion that insists that is the "Lord's work".   

[shelleymak6376]

4 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

Sorry to hear about your struggles.  That happens because there are too many pastors and the market is flooded.  My city has a church on almost every block.  The more churches there are the fewer supporters are available for each one.  I have a cousin who is in the same boat.  He is an associate pastor who can barely feed his family.  But he doesn't have enough raw talent to start his own church which means he has to work for another pastor in an area where there are already too many churches.  Mega churches are where the money is at because one guy gets to keep the tithes of thousands of people.  Maintaining a big church isn't that much more expensive than maintaining a little church.  The trick it keeping the church full and big, modern churches attract the most interest.

 

 

Exactly!!  And being in the south, there is a church on every corner just like you said!!   

[Guest end3]

7 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

Learn what the word scapegoat means.  Something can't be a scapegoat when it is the cause.  It a job requires 50 hours of work but pays like one that should only require 25 hours then the job is not innocent.  Now it would be one thing if the entire job market sucks but in this case the driving factor is religion that insists that is the "Lord's work".   

One, people have enough difficulty tithing even when they feel good.  And I think the Bible mentions several times "the pay ain't good".  Why is her story not a reflection of the truth, the truth that the job doesn't pay well.   Two, and I've done it too, we rationalize a position based on our situation.  Everyone has accused everyone of this.  I'm just saying that it seems that Christianity became the thing to blame because it was the object that split the relationship....or at least that is what I am understanding.  And my use of scapegoat was fine.  Thx.

[midniterider]

Life's purpose is to live it.

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

28 minutes ago, shelleymak6376 said:

Feel free to think however you want  

Man, you handled that gracefully! Kudos!