Aw crap! She knows.

[Daffodil]

Just talked to my mom.  She has spent her life as a mainline Christian, but is a firm believer.  For those of you that don't know, my dad was a pastor in a mainline denomination until he died of cancer in 2003.  One brother married a cradle catholic and now they go to a mainline church.  The other brother married an evangelical and attends an evangelical church.  I was an evangelical from college until a few years ago.  I have avoided telling her and have managed to skirt around the issue when it has come up ever since.  

 

Well, something my daughter said the last time we were there got her thinking and she called me to ask about it.  One thing lead to another and she point blank asked me if I still believed.  I have to tell you all, I am so tired of lying (yes, I admit I have lied, though I hated doing it) and of trying to dodge questions to avoid difficult conversations or hurt feelings.  I am just so tired of it.  I told her the truth and then had three conversations in succession (we would talk, then hang up, then she'd think of something else and call me back), and now she knows.  It wasn't terrible, though she had some surprisingly good questions for me!  Anyway, we hung up with love and a bit of sorrow on her part, but ok.  She asked me to go to church with her the next time we visit, and I said I would.  It's not that much to ask as we live four hours away and only visit 3 or 4 times a year.

 

I really don't have much concern over this except for my evangelical brother and sister-in-law.  They're actually pretty mild in a lot of things, but they are strong believers and I don't know how they'll respond when my mom tells them, as I know she will.  My husband was wincing as he heard my side of the phone calls, but he congratulated me on my coming clean when it was over, lol!!

[older]

I'll bet you're feeling some relief. Bro may try to get you back but he'll have to deal with that. It's his problem, not yours. If you can handle going to church with her three times a year, the only harm is a few hours lost on a Sunday morning.

[Orbit]

Congrats on coming out!

[LogicalFallacy]

Well done Daffodil. It's certainly a relief when you stop pretending... or even outright lying.

 

Best wishes for your interactions with believing members of the family. I know it can be difficult, but after a time you get used to it. My parents are still asking me to come back to church. I just say no thanks. If they push harder I push back.... but mostly they don't want push back once you really start nailing problems with Christianity and god home.

[MOHO]

Well played, @Daffodil !!

 

Bet you feel like a load has been taken off of your shoulders!

 

I finally had to get to a place were I was OK with the end of my marriage before I stopped all the back and forth and role playing and mumbling half-hearted answers to my wife,  her fundy friends, and her bratty little 45 year old son. But you know what? We're still married and it looks like we're going to stay that way. 

 

Is there tension? A little.

Is there difficulty? A little.

 

Is there relief and freedom?

           One whole hell of a lot!

[Geezer]

As long as you know the reasons why you left the faith you can withstand the storm. If a person doesn't really know for certain why they are no longer a believer that can be a real problem down the road. 

[Daffodil]

On 3/20/2018 at 10:16 PM, older said:

I'll bet you're feeling some relief. Bro may try to get you back but he'll have to deal with that. It's his problem, not yours. If you can handle going to church with her three times a year, the only harm is a few hours lost on a Sunday morning.

 

Well, relief isn't quite what I'm feeling exactly.  It's more mild apprehension.  I can handle my mom alright, but my brother and his wife are something else.  I described them as "mild" in a lot of things, but they are strong believers, homeschool their kids, pulled their sons out of the Boy Scouts over the whole gay thing, have their girls in some sort of "God's Princesses" club (sort of a Christian version of Girl Scouts where they learn domestic skills - that's not the name of it, but I can't remember what it's called), etc.  Oldest son is 18 and in a serious relationship with a girl who was also homeschooled.  They're both in college, and when I mentioned I hoped they wouldn't get married until they finished school, my SIL got defensive and said they got married at 21 and "everyone said we were too young but we're still together and we think it was god's will".  Yeah, whatever.  Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it's a good idea for everyone.  Anyway, we won't see them until July and I wonder what it will be like.  I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.  

[Daffodil]

7 hours ago, Orbit said:

Congrats on coming out!

 

Thanks!

[Daffodil]

6 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Well done Daffodil. It's certainly a relief when you stop pretending... or even outright lying.

 

Best wishes for your interactions with believing members of the family. I know it can be difficult, but after a time you get used to it. My parents are still asking me to come back to church. I just say no thanks. If they push harder I push back.... but mostly they don't want push back once you really start nailing problems with Christianity and god home.

 

Thanks!  My conversations with my mom were pretty interesting.  She asked some questions I didn't expect.  I answered them honestly and didn't fumble too bad (I'm not very good off-the-cuff, but I held my own).  The most difficult question was more of an observation - I feel like your loss of faith negates everything your father believed in and lived for; do you think his life was a waste?  Ummm . . . Wow.  Was not expecting her to go there so quickly!  I definitely fumbled my way through that one, but I suspect it will come up again.  

[LogicalFallacy]

2 minutes ago, Daffodil said:

 

Thanks!  My conversations with my mom were pretty interesting.  She asked some questions I didn't expect.  I answered them honestly and didn't fumble too bad (I'm not very good off-the-cuff, but I held my own).  The most difficult question was more of an observation - I feel like your loss of faith negates everything your father believed in and lived for; do you think his life was a waste?  Ummm . . . Wow.  Was not expecting her to go there so quickly!  I definitely fumbled my way through that one, but I suspect it will come up again.  

 

A potential answer: No his life was not a waste, he did what he believed in, he left behind children who loved him and have made their own lives, he was happy and died believing. My lack of belief in no way impacts on the meaning of Dad's life. (Alter for personal circumstances)

 

Or something along those lines.

[Daffodil]

5 hours ago, Geezer said:

As long as you know the reasons why you left the faith you can withstand the storm. If a person doesn't really know for certain why they are no longer a believer that can be a real problem down the road. 

 

I know very well why I left and told her some of that, but I'm much more eloquent in writing than I am in person, and I definitely do not have the skills in debate that so many of you here have.  I'm going to try to rely on the basics - I just don't believe anymore - and hope that deflects most of it.  My husband likes to respond with, "According to the Bible, faith is a gift from god.  He never gave me that gift, so oh well!"

[Daffodil]

4 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

A potential answer: No his life was not a waste, he did what he believed in, he left behind children who loved him and have made their own lives, he was happy and died believing. My lack of belief in no way impacts on the meaning of Dad's life. (Alter for personal circumstances)

 

Or something along those lines.

 

Now see, that was beautiful and so well done.  Why can't I do that!

[LogicalFallacy]

3 hours ago, Daffodil said:

 

Now see, that was beautiful and so well done.  Why can't I do that!

 

I had all the time in the world and no pressure... I'd have fumbeled if I'd been caught off guard. Having prepped answers helps but you cannot prep for everything.

[Tsathoggua9]

Hey, thanks for sharing! That must have been challenging for you. But it is very good to finally be outta the closet. Honest living is a great thing!

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Daffodil said:

 

Now see, that was beautiful and so well done.  Why can't I do that!

You could write her a letter. I did that because I don't do well with conversations face to face on this issue. It was the best option for me. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Some very good responses above to your dilemma.  Also remember you do not have to discuss it with them.  Tell them you value the relationships with them, and it is not dependent on the religion, and you don't want to discuss it further.  Ask them to respect your decisions, and your honesty, and you will respect theirs.  And if you feel like you need to respond, I also recommend writing out your explanations.  Writing it out is good therapy and will help you gel, or organize you own thoughts.  And it's not as easy to ignore something in writing, as it is something said verbally.

 

As to attending church with them, do what ever feels right for you.  At the time I "came out" I was trying out a Unitarian Universalist church.  I ask my relatives if they would, in turn, go to church with me.  HA!  That ended that discussion.  I never attended another of their worship services.

 

 If they want to discuss the Bible with you, ask them if they will, in turn, read some articles from this site, or books written by agnostics and atheist.   Also told my relatives I very well knew their arguments.  Had used them myself for years.  Would they seriously consider the new information I had gathered?  That was the end of that discussion.

 

I have come to the conclusion there are 3 areas where people aren't interested in truth.  They just want their ears "tickled" with their preconceived ideas and fantasy.  Religion, politics, and romantic love.

 

 

[Daffodil]

7 hours ago, Weezer said:

Some very good responses above to your dilemma.  Also remember you do not have to discuss it with them.  Tell them you value the relationships with them, and it is not dependent on the religion, and you don't want to discuss it further.  Ask them to respect your decisions, and your honesty, and you will respect theirs.  And if you feel like you need to respond, I also recommend writing out your explanations.  Writing it out is good therapy and will help you gel, or organize you own thoughts.  And it's not as easy to ignore something in writing, as it is something said verbally.

 

As to attending church with them, do what ever feels right for you.  At the time I "came out" I was trying out a Unitarian Universalist church.  I ask my relatives if they would, in turn, go to church with me.  HA!  That ended that discussion.  I never attended another of their worship services.

 

 If they want to discuss the Bible with you, ask them if they will, in turn, read some articles from this site, or books written by agnostics and atheist.   Also told my relatives I very well knew their arguments.  Had used them myself for years.  Would they seriously consider the new information I had gathered?  That was the end of that discussion.

 

I have come to the conclusion there are 3 areas where people aren't interested in truth.  They just want their ears "tickled" with their preconceived ideas and fantasy.  Religion, politics, and romantic love.

 

 

 

One of the things that I think will keep debates in check is that they know I know my bible.  I was never one to rely on those stupid devotionals or letting someone else tell me what it says/means.  I studied the hell out of it and asked all the “wrong” questions, which is why I struggled with doubt my entire time in the faith.  I really don’t think they will try to lay any powerhouse verses on me, but who knows!  I think it’s far more likely they will approach it from a guilt standpoint concerning my dad and my kids, if they address it at all.  I do like your approach, though, of asking them if they would reciprocate anything they ask you to do.  

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Daffodil said:

 

One of the things that I think will keep debates in check is that they know I know my bible.  I was never one to rely on those stupid devotionals or letting someone else tell me what it says/means.  I studied the hell out of it and asked all the “wrong” questions, which is why I struggled with doubt my entire time in the faith.  I really don’t think they will try to lay any powerhouse verses on me, but who knows!  I think it’s far more likely they will approach it from a guilt standpoint concerning my dad and my kids, if they address it at all.  I do like your approach, though, of asking them if they would reciprocate anything they ask you to do.  

If this was my mother, and she approached it from a guilt standpoint, here is what I would say to her: "Do you not realize this is emotional manipulation? We all live according to our own beliefs. Dad had his and I have mine. There is value in living according to one's beliefs and values, instead of living a false facade which isn't the truth. We have the obligation to be true to ourselves in this life, not others."

[Axelle]

Wow, must have been harsh, makes me wonder whether I should wait so long to tell my family that they find out themselves :/

[★ Citsonga ★]

On 3/21/2018 at 11:58 PM, Daffodil said:

 

Thanks!  My conversations with my mom were pretty interesting.  She asked some questions I didn't expect.  I answered them honestly and didn't fumble too bad (I'm not very good off-the-cuff, but I held my own).  The most difficult question was more of an observation - I feel like your loss of faith negates everything your father believed in and lived for; do you think his life was a waste?  Ummm . . . Wow.  Was not expecting her to go there so quickly!  I definitely fumbled my way through that one, but I suspect it will come up again.  

 

Wow, that was quite low and seemingly insensitive. To be fair, though, this is probably a very emotional issue for her, so emotional pleading is probably about all she has to go on. I think I would say something along the lines of, "Of course it's not a waste to be true to oneself and try to live the best life possible; that's what dad did and that's what I'm doing, too."

 

[Daffodil]

2 hours ago, Axelle said:

Wow, must have been harsh, makes me wonder whether I should wait so long to tell my family that they find out themselves :/

 

She’s 79, and I was going to let her live out the rest of her days in blissful ignorance, but she figured it out.  FWIW, I don’t think we owe any explanations or “confessions” to our believing friends/relatives.  We live our lives as we see fit, and if they notice, then we deal with it.  At least that’s how i’m dealing with it.  I try not to lie, but it does get tricky.  My best friend knows I don’t go to church anymore, but assumes I still believe.  I know that the words “best friend” and “big secret” don’t go together, but i’m still feeling my way through this like everyone else.  

[mymistake]

6 minutes ago, Daffodil said:

 

She’s 79, and I was going to let her live out the rest of her days in blissful ignorance, but she figured it out.  FWIW, I don’t think we owe any explanations or “confessions” to our believing friends/relatives.  We live our lives as we see fit, and if they notice, then we deal with it.  At least that’s how i’m dealing with it.  I try not to lie, but it does get tricky.  My best friend knows I don’t go to church anymore, but assumes I still believe.  I know that the words “best friend” and “big secret” don’t go together, but i’m still feeling my way through this like everyone else.  

 

 

Don't feel the least bit guilty.  Christianity is the religion of comforting lies.  Say whatever you need to say to keep Christians calm and appeased.  If they can't handle reality that is on them.  It's not like you are lying to gain something or cheat someone.  You are only doing it to protect yourself from bad Christian behavior.

[Daffodil]

1 hour ago, Citsonga said:

 

Wow, that was quite low and seemingly insensitive. To be fair, though, this is probably a very emotional issue for her, so emotional pleading is probably about all she has to go on. I think I would say something along the lines of, "Of course it's not a waste to be true to oneself and try to live the best life possible; that's what dad did and that's what I'm doing, too."

 

 

Thanks!  That’s a great response!  It’s funny, several of you have thought it was insensitive or harsh for her to say that.  I know tone does not translate online, but I didn’t take her statements as harsh at all.  I thought they were quite logical.  I have thought the same thing myself and have wondered what my dad would have thought if he had still been alive. As I mentioned in the OP, he was a mainline pastor, so he was pretty open minded despite his own beliefs.  I like to think he would have been sad, but accepting.  We’ll never know, though, and it’s pointless to speculate.  My mom, however, though I adore her, is a champion worrier and more emotional, so I am used to this kind of thing from her.  Thankfully, she has spent her entire life as a mainline member, so I don’t have to deal with any of that fundagelical crap from her.  She’ll be the easier one to deal with.  

[★ Citsonga ★]

2 minutes ago, Daffodil said:

 

Thanks!  That’s a great response!  It’s funny, several of you have thought it was insensitive or harsh for her to say that.  I know tone does not translate online, but I didn’t take her statements as harsh at all.  I thought they were quite logical.  I have thought the same thing myself and have wondered what my dad would have thought if he had still been alive. As I mentioned in the OP, he was a mainline pastor, so he was pretty open minded despite his own beliefs.  I like to think he would have been sad, but accepting.  We’ll never know, though, and it’s pointless to speculate.  My mom, however, though I adore her, is a champion worrier and more emotional, so I am used to this kind of thing from her.  Thankfully, she has spent her entire life as a mainline member, so I don’t have to deal with any of that fundagelical crap from her.  She’ll be the easier one to deal with.  

 

Yeah, that's why I qualified it with "seemingly." I didn't know for sure what her intent was. Thanks for giving some clarification. It's great that you don't have to deal with "fundagelical crap" from her.

 

[Daffodil]

12 minutes ago, Citsonga said:

 

Yeah, that's why I qualified it with "seemingly." I didn't know for sure what her intent was. Thanks for giving some clarification. It's great that you don't have to deal with "fundagelical crap" from her.

 

 

Forgot to mention, she can be manipulative, though.  She’s now trying to get me to show the movie, Heaven is for Real, to my family.  She bought it for me a long time ago and I promptly put it away and forgot about it.  I keep telling her none of us want to watch because it’s not our kind of movie, but because my brother and his family liked it, she insists we will too.  She wanted me to  promise I would show it to them and couldn’t understand why I would not promise.  Sucks that it has taken me this long in life (and a deconversion) to learn how to deflect manipulation, but whatever.