Prayer not bring rains? Make it!

[♦ nivek ♦]

 

 

The decades-long quest to end drought (and feed millions) by taking the salt out of seawater

 

Quote

“The world isn’t short of water, it’s just in the wrong place, and too salty," says Charlie Paton – so he's spent the past 24 years building the technology to prove it

---

By EMMA BRYCE

 

I

n October 2017, Charlie Paton was driving across the parched plains of northwestern Somaliland when he passed a seemingly endless queue of rumbling trucks. Each was piled high with containers of grain – 47,000 tonnes in all – to be distributed as food aid across Somalia and Ethiopia.

 

Paton was struck by the irony: it was the region’s harvest season, and yet here were trucks delivering industrial quantities of grain that would surely strip whatever meagre business there was away from local producers. “Suddenly, the place is awash with food,” he recalls thinking. “Who’s going to buy food from a farmer when it’s free?”

 

Huge drops of food aid are common in the drought- and famine-plagued Horn of Africa. This year alone, the United Nations is appealing for $1.6 billion in aid just for Somalia – a fact that unsettles Paton. “That $1.6 billion could probably make the place self-sufficient, not just in 2018, but forever,” he says. And he thinks his invention could help make that a reality.

 

Paton is the founder of Seawater Greenhouse, a company that transforms two abundant resources – sunshine and seawater – into freshwater for growing crops in arid, coastal regions such as Africa’s horn. The drought-stricken landscape that cloaks this region doesn’t exactly inspire visions of lush agriculture – but then, Paton sees things differently: “The world isn’t short of water, it’s just in the wrong place, and too salty,” he says.

 

 

...snipped from a lengthy article via above Earl

 

kL

 

 

 

 

 

[Fweethawt]

I used to wonder about this as a kid when I heard about water shortages.

 

Why not filter the salt out of sea water, duh?!?

[♦ Fuego ♦]

The UN (and the church) has a long history of trying to fix problems in the wrong way. Rich people donate tractors and farm equipment to the poor who don't know how to run them, can't afford gasoline (if gas is even available), and so the machines sit there and rust. They donate food, and as observed it ruins the local market, and then the food runs out. Some locals have learned about composting leaves and seaweed, doing what they can to improve the soil. But when there is little water, it makes things nearly impossible. So I'm glad to see that someone is trying to help them out with water. Eco-change is possible in that region if they can create plant growth. Then it takes time for the soil to become alive with bacteria, mycorrhizal fungi, and other life that interact with and help the plant life. But Somalia is often ruined repeatedly through wars and other government programs. Same thing in the rainforests where enormous tracts are just cleared out to make fields. That has an effect on the whole planet's weather and gas-exchange, not to mention the devastation to the local ecosystem.

[pantheory]

Yes, fresh water from sea water is a relatively easy process simply by boiling sea water, venting away and condensing the steam into fresh water. The reverse process also works very well, freezing salt water separating the ice, upon melting it is fresh water.  The problem has always been the cost of such processes compared to other processes and the cost of other sources of water. The most economical salt water conversion plants used today are in Israel, where they use the filtering process called reverse osmosis.

 

Another economical process used in Israel but on a smaller scale was the building of very large diameter metal tanks (roughly 100 yards in Diameter) but having a relatively short height, maybe 10 yards. The tanks are painted black. These tanks are built near a coastal desert region. They are filled roughly half full with ocean water.  The desert sun quickly heats up these black colored tanks until the inside air in the tank reaches about 150 F. At this point a vacuum is drawn inside the tank whereby water vapor is drawn off and steadily condensed into fresh water. Following this withdrawal process the remaining brine within the tanks is pumped back into the ocean and the process begins again. The majority of the pumping power is from a large array of solar panels. Since much of the energy for this process is solar, the best locations for this process are primarily limited to sea level desert regions near the coast. If conventional electrical power is used for this process the cost of fresh water is about the same but with a more negative environmental impact. The Arabic countries also use the reverse osmosis process to produce vast quantities of fresh water but less economically than the similar process in Israel.

 

As to converting ice into fresh water, the United Arab Emirates has contracted to haul huge ice burgs from Antarctica to Dubai first for fresh water, then as a tourist attraction and climate modifier for the city. The ice burg towing process takes a whole year, while during that time about half the ice burg's original mass will melt away. When and if the ice burg(s) gets to Dubai, I expect to travel from the U.S. to visit one of them.  Wonder if they will build a ski run on the ice burg when it arrives during the Arabian summer?  

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/uae-icebergs-drinking-water-from-antarctica-towed-united-arab-emirates-a7715561.html

 

 

[Joshpantera]

On 3/25/2018 at 5:47 PM, pantheory said:

As to converting ice into fresh water, the United Arab Emirates has contracted to haul huge ice burgs from Antarctica to Dubai first for fresh water, then as a tourist attraction and climate modifier for the city. The ice burg towing process takes a whole year, while during that time about half the ice burg's original mass will melt away. When and if the ice burg(s) gets to Dubai, I expect to travel from the U.S. to visit one of them.  Wonder if they will build a ski run on the ice burg when it arrives during the Arabian summer?  

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/uae-icebergs-drinking-water-from-antarctica-towed-united-arab-emirates-a7715561.html

 

 

Doesn't this contribute to sea level rise? 

 

Where as many countries drawing fresh water inland from the ocean takes away from sea level rise. 

[pantheory]

8 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Doesn't this contribute to sea level rise? 

 

Where as many countries drawing fresh water inland from the ocean takes away from sea level rise. 

 

I am presently writing a paper on it. There is a seasonal melting of these ice burgs anyway, and the melting of ice burgs away from the poles would be no different than them melting at the poles seasonally, concerning sea level. A few ice burgs more or less, added or subtracted, would not be a drop in the bucket compared to all the waters of the oceans. The idea would be that half the mass of the ice burgs would become land water subtracting from sea level, decreasing ocean temperatures in the areas where hauled and decreasing land temperatures.

[Joshpantera]

38 minutes ago, pantheory said:

 

I am presently writing a paper on it. There is a seasonal melting of these ice burgs anyway, and the melting of ice burgs away from the poles would be no different than them melting at the poles seasonally, concerning sea level. A few ice burgs more or less, added or subtracted, would not be a drop in the bucket compared to all the waters of the oceans. The idea would be that half the mass of the ice burgs would become land water subtracting from sea level, decreasing ocean temperatures in the areas where hauled and decreasing land temperatures.

 

Hold on, I'm from the tropics. Do you know how catastrophic it could be to decrease the water temperature in tropical bodies of water with coral reefs? I'm sure some one has considered this issue, right? 

 

I've seen videos of beautiful reefs off over there.

[pantheory]

16 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Hold on, I'm from the tropics. Do you know how catastrophic it could be to decrease the water temperature in tropical bodies of water with coral reefs? I'm sure some one has considered this issue, right? 

 

The coral reefs of Australia have been bleached by what they believe is warming ocean temperatures. If on their trip northward from Antarctica, if brought close enough to these reefs, such ice burgs could change ocean temperatures and mitigate global warming effects on these reefs.  If hauled to west Africa about 15% north of the equator, such ice burgs could prevent the formation of some hurricanes. Most of the hurricanes hitting the U.S. form in this location. Based upon research the water temperature should be above 79 decrease F for a tropical hurricane to form.

[Joshpantera]

On 3/27/2018 at 6:08 PM, pantheory said:

 

The coral reefs of Australia have been bleached by what they believe is warming ocean temperatures. If on their trip northward from Antarctica, if brought close enough to these reefs, such ice burgs could change ocean temperatures and mitigate global warming effects on these reefs.  If hauled to west Africa about 15% north of the equator, such ice burgs could prevent the formation of some hurricanes. Most of the hurricanes hitting the U.S. form in this location. Based upon research the water temperature should be above 79 decrease F for a tropical hurricane to form.

 

I'm a little shocked that people are so willing to tamper with the natural order like that, while at the same time ranting and raving about co2 emissions. The ice burg thing could provoke some really bad results by being dragged to warmer regions of the world. The reefs in Australia have been growing back, showing the full cycle to the bleaching and regrowth process. Cooling the water temps could kill them back again. They'd likely regrow again, but it still seems odd to knowingly do something with intention that you know would damage the reefs. 

 

Hurricanes form off of Africa for a short window around August and September. If they don't form there, then they form closer to the America's. Sea temps in Africa wouldn't do much to help the US. All of the reasoning for hauling ice burgs seems odd. Mainly it's about bringing fresh water to places that need it. All of this other stuff is an aside or ways to make it look beneficial for something other than getting the fresh water there. The asides are all very poor in logic, however. All in all, it would seem that desalinization would be far less damaging on the local environments. 

[pantheory]

5 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

I'm a little shocked that people are so willing to tamper with the natural order like that, while at the same time ranting and raving about co2 emissions. The ice burg thing could provoke some really bad results by being dragged to warmer regions of the world. The reefs in Australia have been growing back, showing the full cycle to the bleaching and regrowth process. Cooling the water temps could kill them back again. They'd likely regrow again, but it still seems odd to knowingly do something with intention that you know would damage the reefs. 

 

Hurricanes form off of Africa for a short window around August and September. If they don't form there, then they form closer to the America's. Sea temps in Africa wouldn't do much to help the US. All of the reasoning for hauling ice burgs seems odd. Mainly it's water bringing fresh water. All of this other stuff is an aside or ways to make it look beneficial for something other than getting the fresh water there. The asides are all very poor in logic, however. All in all, it would seem that desalinization would be far less damaging on the local environments. 

 

Nature is great but man can protect the natural order if he wants to.  Ice burgs  would not be hauled anywhere near the barrier reefs of Australia unless the Australian government wanted it and thought it necessary for the benefit of the reefs. My paper is on mitigating the quantity and power of hurricanes. Tropical cyclones (called hurricanes in the U.S.) occur all year round in some part of the world. China gets more of these storms than any other country and will not continue to tolerate such damage if it can be avoided. Last year the U.S spent 400 billion dollars on hurricane damage in Houston, Florida, and Puerto Rico. Tax payers must pay more than $1,000. for every man woman and child in the U.S. for this one year of hurricanes. If global warming is valid there will be more years like 2017 hurricanes.

 

In Bangladesh in 1970 over a half million people died from just one tropical cyclone. My paper involves at least 5 ways to lessen the frequency and power of such storms. Hauling ice burgs is just one of the ways discussed in this paper. Aside from my efforts, Ice burgs will be hauled for fresh water purposes and to cool the Arabian summer in Dubai. But such burgs can also be hauled to provide fresh water to Africa and other regions, as well as potentially mitigating the terrible effects of hurricanes upon mankind. The idea after initial testing will require the funding approval of the U.S. congress, or another government(s), before any large scale testing or mitigation could be performed. If there is not overwhelming evidence to show the efficacy of any of these methods, funding will not follow and nothing of consequence would happen.  Upon completion of the paper, soliciting funds and managing the project by a non-profit organization, is presently my objective based upon the patented processes involved.

 

For fresh water purposes alone I think desalination is a better alternative. One of my hurricane-prevention methods could also involve desalination.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24488385/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/deadliest-storms-history/#.WrvBIvX_q00

[Joshpantera]

It will be interesting to see what side effects come from ice burgs parked off of tropical Dubai. It will likely take seeing the negative effects first hand for any one to acknowledge the problems involved. And if they're set to do it regardless, then all questions will be answered one way or another. 

[pantheory]

19 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

It will be interesting to see what side effects come from ice burgs parked off of tropical Dubai. It will likely take seeing the negative effects first hand for any one to acknowledge the problems involved. And if they're set to do it regardless, then all questions will be answered one way or another. 

 

My understanding is that the contract has already been signed for this hauling but it takes a whole year to haul a burg, so I don't know when the finding, cleaving and hauling process will begin. 

[Joshpantera]

On 3/29/2018 at 7:10 PM, pantheory said:

 

My understanding is that the contract has already been signed for this hauling but it takes a whole year to haul a burg, so I don't know when the finding, cleaving and hauling process will begin. 

 

This is something we ought to follow to see how it unfolds. Like how much will an ice burg lower the sea temps when parked in a tropical sea, and for what range surrounding the ice burg.