This Site Exhausts Me

[ag_NO_stic]

Hi, everyone. Missed many of you, I've been insane crazy busy pursuing my baking business dreams, working, etc. I hope everyone is doing well. I haven't been active, because the forum posts were starting to blur together into this left vs. right bullshit of which I grew quite weary.

 

I had a few minutes, logged in, and kinda skimmed through all my notifications. After reading through several forum posts with inflammatory titles and/or responses, I was getting worked up and crafting all these responses in my head....and then I realized that there is no point to it at all. Why should I bother to respond to things and throw in my two cents? Nothing happens. There are some people I truly respect on this site, I respect sticking to the arguments and disagreeing without being an asshole. Bouncing ideas off each other, challenging your thinking together, and checking your own biases and misinformation. But there is MUCH assholery here and I'm pretty done with it. I'm barely even on this site anyway and one day of scrolling through all of these posts has me heading straight back to my busy life without looking back. How are we supposed to grow together, learn from each other, help each other navigate through life, or do anything remotely productive on this site when we're too busy slinging shit at each other? There is pure gold in these forums from people who lost their faith and we are going to lose people who need help freshly deconverting by demonizing each other and put each other in boxes, with labels like "snowflakes," "racists," "ignorant," "stupid," etc. 

 

As someone who prefers to think critically about any various issue as opposed to holding to some party line or whatever, I'm seeing it on both sides. I don't know how many of the people on this site that I hold in high regard have the diligence and patience to respond to such mind-numbingly dumb shit with respect and thought-provoking material. I will fiercely defend anyone's right to say whatever they want to say, free speech and what not....but god DAMN what is the POINT of trolling? You think it's funny or something? What is the POINT of trying to make another person feel inferior or ill-informed? Sure, I'll chuckle at a potentially offensive meme every now and then....but like, there is just so much unproductivity in many of these discussions that it's overwhelming. Congratulations, you have free speech, now are you gonna doing anything useful with it? You're free to say whatever you want, by all means, but I don't have to listen to you say it. And before a select few of you want to say I'm throwing a snowflake tantrum, do me a favor and f*** right off. I won't put up with it, the way this place has been lately. It's called self-respect, not inability to hear things I don't like.

 

I can't be the only one observing this crap or feeling this way, for the love of Zeus.

[disillusioned]

Now that's a rant!

 

Very good post. I can certainly see that some of the sniping that goes on around here is not for everyone. I've been known, on my lesser days, to engage in some of more, shall we say, pointed exchanges. I'll take the criticism. It's fair enough. Sometimes I can be a jerk. I try not to be a jerk needlessly, though, and I also try not to personally attack people. I will confess that I have limited patience for wilful ignorance, whatever form it takes. I have even less patience for needless bullying, and sometimes this leads me to insert myself into situations where I would be better advised to leave well enough alone, and just employ Thur's Law.

 

I will say, though, that much (not all!) of the off putting material can be avoided by simply not venturing into Totally Off Topic. I hope that not too many people are judging the worth of this site simply on the basis of what goes on down there.

 

@ag_NO_stic, I understand that people come and go around here. I also drift in and out from time to time. I hope you'll keep checking in occasionally though, even if it's exhausting for you. You have a knack for elevating the conversation. 

[RealityCheck]

On 3/28/2018 at 1:57 PM, ag_NO_stic said:

Hi, everyone. Missed many of you, I've been insane crazy busy pursuing my baking business drea

 

t up with it, the way this place has been lately. It's called self-respect, not inability to hear things I don't like.

 

I can't be the only one observing this crap or feeling this way, for the love of Zeus.

This site is a representation of some of the best and worst of human nature.  It is just a reflection of the real world.  That is all.

[Geezer]

 

I prefer the religious topics, and the name Ex-Christian indicates that is the purpose of this site, but political bantering seems to be on most sites regardless of there advertised purpose. I don't have an issue with political discussions per se, and participation is voluntary, so avoiding such discussions is easy. 

 

 

 

 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I see the bickering and change the channel. I see the same trolling going on in news articles where people are allowed to comment. Any well-thought out comment is immediately pounced upon by snarky abuse. Any good thought is immediately countered by abuse and rudeness. Like you, I used to try to counter the trolls, but quit because - what's the point? I read an article and skip the comments. Even if I want to comment I ask myself why, what point would my comment make that wouldn't be vomited on by idiots that relish sticking people with pins to watch them flinch? Not sure if it is just me, but it seems like the whole snarky troll thing has advanced about 1000% in the last year. I block some things, and hide FB stories where people are just sniping at each other. Political arguments are all heat and no light, so I choose instead to be introspective and provide a comment here or there (usually on FB) if I have a personal experience, otherwise I ignore most politics. I wish this site were more about just ex-C stuff and less about all the peripheral stuff. Plenty of other sites for people to bicker about politics and "how things ought to be".

 

 

[♦ nivek ♦]

aggie....

 

Everybody takes breaks from Ex-C. Some take short vacations from here, others seem to never return. 

 

Myself? Had to take a longish break some years ago when physical illness tried to kill me with blood born bacterial. Hated to take that time off however things did not allow me much awake time..

 

Door is always open, you please come go as desired. Presence here is valued and enjoyed.

 

kevinL

[ag_NO_stic]

14 hours ago, disillusioned said:

Now that's a rant!

 

Very good post. I can certainly see that some of the sniping that goes on around here is not for everyone. I've been known, on my lesser days, to engage in some of more, shall we say, pointed exchanges. I'll take the criticism. It's fair enough. Sometimes I can be a jerk. I try not to be a jerk needlessly, though, and I also try not to personally attack people. I will confess that I have limited patience for wilful ignorance, whatever form it takes. I have even less patience for needless bullying, and sometimes this leads me to insert myself into situations where I would be better advised to leave well enough alone, and just employ Thur's Law.

 

I will say, though, that much (not all!) of the off putting material can be avoided by simply not venturing into Totally Off Topic. I hope that not too many people are judging the worth of this site simply on the basis of what goes on down there.

 

@ag_NO_stic, I understand that people come and go around here. I also drift in and out from time to time. I hope you'll keep checking in occasionally though, even if it's exhausting for you. You have a knack for elevating the conversation. 

 

I have yet to see the kind of posts I'm talking about come from you, but its sweet of you to try to take some blame anyway. I also appreciate the suggestion. I think I may be following threads somehow, because I get a notification and sometimes my curiosity gets the best of me. Anyway, I'm sure I'll get better about focusing on the other stuff. I already feel kinda bad for my rant lol.

[ag_NO_stic]

8 hours ago, Fuego said:

I see the bickering and change the channel. I see the same trolling going on in news articles where people are allowed to comment. Any well-thought out comment is immediately pounced upon by snarky abuse. Any good thought is immediately countered by abuse and rudeness. Like you, I used to try to counter the trolls, but quit because - what's the point? I read an article and skip the comments. Even if I want to comment I ask myself why, what point would my comment make that wouldn't be vomited on by idiots that relish sticking people with pins to watch them flinch? Not sure if it is just me, but it seems like the whole snarky troll thing has advanced about 1000% in the last year. I block some things, and hide FB stories where people are just sniping at each other. Political arguments are all heat and no light, so I choose instead to be introspective and provide a comment here or there (usually on FB) if I have a personal experience, otherwise I ignore most politics. I wish this site were more about just ex-C stuff and less about all the peripheral stuff. Plenty of other sites for people to bicker about politics and "how things ought to be".

 

 

 

Yeah, it's clear I have some growing to do. I rarely comment back, but I have not honed the "change the channel" skill. I just sit there and let it bug me. I think it's easy to miss some of the good discussions because I feel like I notice all the unnecessary ones. This site helped me SO MUCH a year ago when I was freshly deconverted, I want to make sure others see the good in it.

[ag_NO_stic]

8 hours ago, TrueScotsman said:

Myself, I have moved on considerably from being bitter at Christianity, but will come into the main forums to help people with mental health issues after coming out.  I certainly am one of those who dive into the quagmire that is TOT, and I do it primarily because I think there is a strong pull to the Right going on to bring in secularists and former Ex-Christians and I view the far-right as an ideology to be nearly as bad as Christianity.  I certainly prefer to develop an argument over an ad hominem, but as I am no longer a Christian I don't briddle my tongue so often and will fling mud right back at certain so think deserving personalities.  I unplug every so often, sometimes for long periods for the reasons you mention in the OP, but when I do swoop in my purpose is to counter what I view as the dominant atmosphere currently being propagated at what is a very polarized time in our country.  You and Josh are more of the reasonable ones who lean Right of Center, and I usually never descend into the quagmire with you two.  But when called a  snowflake or told my generation is the tide pode generation then I will retaliate.  Would rather a little bit of mankee poo flinging than this be another rightwing echo chamber which are popping up so over the web.

 

Same, with regard to the bitterness. I have evened out so much and have adopted a "Whatever, I believe what I believe so you do you" mentality. The discussions between you and I have intrigued me to say the least, but I've always felt like you put thought into what I say and I hope you feel the same. I try to listen to you before jumping to defend my opinions, though we often end up disagreeing anyway. I find far-left ideology to be nearly as bad as Christianity too, but I think a centered/balanced perspective is best in most areas of life. Thanks for the comment!

[ag_NO_stic]

4 hours ago, SkipNChurch said:

aggie....

 

Everybody takes breaks from Ex-C. Some take short vacations from here, others seem to never return. 

 

Myself? Had to take a longish break some years ago when physical illness tried to kill me with blood born bacterial. Hated to take that time off however things did not allow me much awake time..

 

Door is always open, you please come go as desired. Presence here is valued and enjoyed.

 

kevinL

 

I'm not quite as old as you, Kevin, I will have to wait a couple more years before I can tell a newbie the ways of Ex-C cycles lolol.

[mymistake]

16 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

I can't be the only one observing this crap or feeling this way, for the love of Zeus.

 

I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking.  No good is served by wasting time in "lost cause" threads.  You make a solid case.

[florduh]

Some people just enjoy conflict, some just like to troll. We make a point of not moderating the shit out of this site, and that's rare to find. We do try to limit the extremist rants to Tot, however.

[mwc]

22 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

Hi, everyone. Missed many of you, I've been insane crazy busy pursuing my baking business dreams, working, etc. I hope everyone is doing well. I haven't been active, because the forum posts were starting to blur together into this left vs. right bullshit of which I grew quite weary.

 

     All I have to do is look here and see you've got shit going on.  You should go do that.  As for me?  I've got nothing going on.  So I've got nothing better to do than hang out here and sling shit.  Count yourself lucky and don't be angry.  Be happy you've got so many better things to do.

 

          mwc

 

[disillusioned]

8 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

I have yet to see the kind of posts I'm talking about come from you, but its sweet of you to try to take some blame anyway. I also appreciate the suggestion. I think I may be following threads somehow, because I get a notification and sometimes my curiosity gets the best of me. Anyway, I'm sure I'll get better about focusing on the other stuff. I already feel kinda bad for my rant lol.

 

No need to feel bad! What else is "Rants and Replies" for?

[LogicalFallacy]

On 3/29/2018 at 11:01 AM, disillusioned said:

Sometimes I can be a jerk. I try not to be a jerk needlessly, though, and I also try not to personally attack people. I will confess that I have limited patience for wilful ignorance, whatever form it takes. I have even less patience for needless bullying, and sometimes this leads me to insert myself into situations where I would be better advised to leave well enough alone, and just employ Thur's Law.

 

One of the best thought-out and well mannered members here thinks he's a jerk at times? Where does that leave us mortals who do wade in flinging mankees at the opposition? The rest of us must be total arseholes by comparison!  

 

 

6 hours ago, mwc said:

So I've got nothing better to do than hang out here and sling shit. 

 

Not to mention denying the existence of NZ.

 

@ag_NO_stic Good advice from mwc though. Lets face it, wading into a forum and discussing contentious topics with people in a forum where total free speech is allowed isn't for everyone. I do because I enjoy solid discussion... and I can be an assertive opinionated person who likes expressing said opinions. PS... come join us in Discord chat... I can promise you we do not get heavy in there.... mostly its cooking and how's ya day been  

 

Some times I feel like I'm standing in the center (I think I'm fairly center... maybe center left.... I think I'm definitely left of Josh, but not left as Truescotsman. I agree with much of what both have to say.) and looking at views from both sides and thinking "well, but..."  

 

[pratt]

i don’t read every single post or every rant. 

 

i read what i enjoy reading and learn from some experts here. 

 

i don’t give a hoot on gun control, feminist, libertians or whatever that is. 

 

i like the topic i read, and when it becomes bickering, i moved on till someone post something interesting

 

there is only so much that interests me. 

 

extestimonies interest me in the past but nowadays tends to skip this section all together

[Guest]

On 3/28/2018 at 4:57 PM, ag_NO_stic said:

Hi, everyone. Missed many of you, I've been insane crazy busy pursuing my baking business dreams, working, etc. I hope everyone is doing well. I haven't been active, because the forum posts were starting to blur together into this left vs. right bullshit of which I grew quite weary.

 

I had a few minutes, logged in, and kinda skimmed through all my notifications. After reading through several forum posts with inflammatory titles and/or responses, I was getting worked up and crafting all these responses in my head....and then I realized that there is no point to it at all. Why should I bother to respond to things and throw in my two cents? Nothing happens. There are some people I truly respect on this site, I respect sticking to the arguments and disagreeing without being an asshole. Bouncing ideas off each other, challenging your thinking together, and checking your own biases and misinformation. But there is MUCH assholery here and I'm pretty done with it. I'm barely even on this site anyway and one day of scrolling through all of these posts has me heading straight back to my busy life without looking back. How are we supposed to grow together, learn from each other, help each other navigate through life, or do anything remotely productive on this site when we're too busy slinging shit at each other? There is pure gold in these forums from people who lost their faith and we are going to lose people who need help freshly deconverting by demonizing each other and put each other in boxes, with labels like "snowflakes," "racists," "ignorant," "stupid," etc. 

 

As someone who prefers to think critically about any various issue as opposed to holding to some party line or whatever, I'm seeing it on both sides. I don't know how many of the people on this site that I hold in high regard have the diligence and patience to respond to such mind-numbingly dumb shit with respect and thought-provoking material. I will fiercely defend anyone's right to say whatever they want to say, free speech and what not....but god DAMN what is the POINT of trolling? You think it's funny or something? What is the POINT of trying to make another person feel inferior or ill-informed? Sure, I'll chuckle at a potentially offensive meme every now and then....but like, there is just so much unproductivity in many of these discussions that it's overwhelming. Congratulations, you have free speech, now are you gonna doing anything useful with it? You're free to say whatever you want, by all means, but I don't have to listen to you say it. And before a select few of you want to say I'm throwing a snowflake tantrum, do me a favor and f*** right off. I won't put up with it, the way this place has been lately. It's called self-respect, not inability to hear things I don't like.

 

I can't be the only one observing this crap or feeling this way, for the love of Zeus.

Yes, for the love of Zeus, you said it, so thanks for that.

I avoid the ToT completely, and since the activity feed seems to be too full of it, and that's where the shit slinging mostly happens, I changed my settings under Activity >> My activity streams >> content I follow. You can customize this to whatever you would like to see and just check that when you sign in, to save yourself lots of time. I recommend you do this if you're looking for a quick way to see what's been happening on here but want to avoid certain areas.

Hope you are doing well Ag, great to hear about the baking and business dreams! You go girl!

 

 

[knightcore]

I think a lot of people would definitely agree with you, myself included. Arguing gets really tiring! I check in every now and then, sometimes try to update things/throw in a word or two, and then move on. I don't think that having a busy life is a bad thing, especially if you're following your dreams. Congrats on your baking business!!!

[ag_NO_stic]

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. Didn't mean to fly off the cuff or anything, I was annoyed so I ranted. No ruhgrets. It's equally clear to me that I could stand to get over myself a little bit and just avoid shit I don't want to be read. It still felt good to say anyway! Ha! I'll do my best to figure out how to get these auto-notifications off so TOT doesn't pop up constantly. It was feeling like that's all that was being posted nowadays.

[duderonomy]

7 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. Didn't mean to fly off the cuff or anything, I was annoyed so I ranted. No ruhgrets. It's equally clear to me that I could stand to get over myself a little bit and just avoid shit I don't want to be read. It still felt good to say anyway! Ha! I'll do my best to figure out how to get these auto-notifications off so TOT doesn't pop up constantly. It was feeling like that's all that was being posted nowadays.

 

I haven't given any feedback yet, so here goes:

 

Don't get over yourself too much. Your rant was great. I might be one of the types you were ranting about! I keep wanting to get away from the fighting in ToT (which I'm guilty of engaging in) and just have fun in that sub-forum, but then stoopid me I dive right back in. Maybe it's just a bad habit?

I've read of some snowflakes (just kidding!!!) that were put off by the political fighting there, and yeah, maybe the best thing is for people that don't like it is to just avoid it. I would like to see the ToT be more civil, but again I say that as one of the guilty ones.

I do think some of the crap in there would be better suited to the comments sections on various news or pundit websites or the comments section of Youtube.

 

I know there is a way to adjust your settings so you only see the notifications you want, because I've done it. Click on your avatar, then in the upper right corner of the page click on your name and choose "settings", and then under "other settings" choose "Notification Settings".  There might be an easier way to get there, but hey, I'm no I.T. guy.

 

Either way, good luck with your business. I hope you come here as often as you can.  I found this thread because I finally ventured away from ToT looking for something different to talk about, so I'm glad you started it.

[ToHellWithMe]

Many of us have a need for some banter. Could be at a regular table in a pub. Could be on Twitter. It makes perfect sense that for some it could be here.

[mymistake]

4 hours ago, ToHellWithMe said:

Many of us have a need for some banter. Could be at a regular table in a pub. Could be on Twitter. It makes perfect sense that for some it could be here.

 

 

Banter is great.  Cyber bullying sucks.   

[florduh]

18 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

Banter is great.  Cyber bullying sucks.   

I can't help but observe that one can argue in a bar or at dinner and say, "You're the biggest asshole I've ever seen. Why don't you do us all a favor and kill yourself? Don't make me kick your ass!" ..... and everybody eventually wanders off and life goes on. The same exchange made on a phone or computer becomes a crime. Crazy, huh?

[mymistake]

50 minutes ago, florduh said:

I can't help but observe that one can argue in a bar or at dinner and say, "You're the biggest asshole I've ever seen. Why don't you do us all a favor and kill yourself? Don't make me kick your ass!" ..... and everybody eventually wanders off and life goes on.  

 

In real life that can lead to violence.  Bar fights are real.  So is domestic violence.  But not all situations are socially symmetric.  It could be that the high school basketball team has cornered a "math geek" in the locker room and they are all shouting it at him "for fun".

 

 

51 minutes ago, florduh said:

The same exchange made on a phone or computer becomes a crime. Crazy, huh?

 

I'm not the legislature but IIRC the motivation was trying to improve the suicide rates.

[Castiel233]

On 28/03/2018 at 9:57 PM, ag_NO_stic said:

Hi, everyone. Missed many of you, I've been insane crazy busy pursuing my baking business dreams, working, etc. I hope everyone is doing well. I haven't been active, because the forum posts were starting to blur together into this left vs. right bullshit of which I grew quite weary.

 

I had a few minutes, logged in, and kinda skimmed through all my notifications. After reading through several forum posts with inflammatory titles and/or responses, I was getting worked up and crafting all these responses in my head....and then I realized that there is no point to it at all. Why should I bother to respond to things and throw in my two cents? Nothing happens. There are some people I truly respect on this site, I respect sticking to the arguments and disagreeing without being an asshole. Bouncing ideas off each other, challenging your thinking together, and checking your own biases and misinformation. But there is MUCH assholery here and I'm pretty done with it. I'm barely even on this site anyway and one day of scrolling through all of these posts has me heading straight back to my busy life without looking back. How are we supposed to grow together, learn from each other, help each other navigate through life, or do anything remotely productive on this site when we're too busy slinging shit at each other? There is pure gold in these forums from people who lost their faith and we are going to lose people who need help freshly deconverting by demonizing each other and put each other in boxes, with labels like "snowflakes," "racists," "ignorant," "stupid," etc. 

 

As someone who prefers to think critically about any various issue as opposed to holding to some party line or whatever, I'm seeing it on both sides. I don't know how many of the people on this site that I hold in high regard have the diligence and patience to respond to such mind-numbingly dumb shit with respect and thought-provoking material. I will fiercely defend anyone's right to say whatever they want to say, free speech and what not....but god DAMN what is the POINT of trolling? You think it's funny or something? What is the POINT of trying to make another person feel inferior or ill-informed? Sure, I'll chuckle at a potentially offensive meme every now and then....but like, there is just so much unproductivity in many of these discussions that it's overwhelming. Congratulations, you have free speech, now are you gonna doing anything useful with it? You're free to say whatever you want, by all means, but I don't have to listen to you say it. And before a select few of you want to say I'm throwing a snowflake tantrum, do me a favor and f*** right off. I won't put up with it, the way this place has been lately. It's called self-respect, not inability to hear things I don't like.

 

I can't be the only one observing this crap or feeling this way, for the love of Zeus.

Totally, totally agree.

 

I used to love this site and coming on here and having a chat or a laugh, but my goodness, it seemed (at least to me) to have turned into a right wing echo chamber..

 

The same old faces would circle the wagons and pat each other on the back for being anti feminist, or pro gun, or whatever and dissenting voices would soon get discouraged.

 

I still sometimes check in, but rarely post now. 

 

There are a few posters whose posts I respect, but the trolls soon ruin it for me, at least.