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Goodbye Jesus

Just a thought


Nani

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Any other women here who at one time actually felt they were lower than men or who thought that maybe God just favored men more? I’ve known some women who felt that way. Or guys, do you personally know any women who have felt this way?

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3 hours ago, Nani said:

Any other women here who at one time actually felt they were lower than men or who thought that maybe God just favored men more? I’ve known some women who felt that way. Or guys, do you personally know any women who have felt this way?

 

I know that the idea is certainly encouraged, even if somewhat subtlety, in many Christian circles. I know of women in certain sects of Christianity who now feel that in that sect there was active men are better than women thinking that resulted in actions.

 

After all Christianity is based on scriptures like:

 

1 Timothy 

9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

 

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4 hours ago, Nani said:

Any other women here who at one time actually felt they were lower than men or who thought that maybe God just favored men more? I’ve known some women who felt that way. Or guys, do you personally know any women who have felt this way?

 

I used to know plenty of women who felt this way. Some of them even professed openly that this was a good thing, since it was God's will.

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8 hours ago, Nani said:

Any other women here who at one time actually felt they were lower than men or who thought that maybe God just favored men more? I’ve known some women who felt that way. Or guys, do you personally know any women who have felt this way?

 

My family's church actively adheres to this belief. It was always really depressing and growing up as a woman it really messed me up. 

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15 minutes ago, knightcore said:

 

My family's church actively adheres to this belief. It was always really depressing and growing up as a woman it really messed me up. 

I know some women usually say “equal but we have different roles” but I never thought I would meet a woman who would say “God only loves the men and we’re just slaves to them. To make God happy, just obey”

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Just now, Nani said:

I know some women usually say “equal but we have different roles” but I never thought I would meet a woman who would say “God only loves the men and we’re just slaves to them. To make God happy, just obey”

 

They never explicitly said they were slaves, but when women in my church weren't allowed any leadership, always had to defer, and even endured abuse because of this teaching it is pretty apparent in actions how they are perceived. My parents used to be much more equal until we joined this church and watching my mother slowly take a more backseat position over the years has been really sad. 

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20 minutes ago, knightcore said:

 

They never explicitly said they were slaves, but when women in my church weren't allowed any leadership, always had to defer, and even endured abuse because of this teaching it is pretty apparent in actions how they are perceived. My parents used to be much more equal until we joined this church and watching my mother slowly take a more backseat position over the years has been really sad. 

It is sad. My mom is a Christian yet she has feminist tendencies. She’s always like “women were oppressed. They would stone women, women couldn’t work or have equal positions” and I’m just like....have you not read your holy book??? “God” literally said all of that! But I’ve ran into some women who just outright hate themselves and other women. I’ve had women tell me that men are our lords 

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It broke my heart when, my mom, after accidentally coming across some random feminist comedy novel, said that she was ashamed of being a woman (because, apparently, not agreeing with a particular comic's taste in humor means all women were disgusting). This attitude really prevails in my family and my dad goes through great lengths to perpetuate it. I think I remember him evoking Ecclesiastes 7:28 "... which I am still seeking but have not found. I have found one upright man among a thousand, but I have not found a woman among all these." to mean men (or people in general) are really sinful (original sin, yadayada), but that women were particularly evil and untrustworthy, and should be regarded as such. Ironically, it's the women in the family who go through great lengths to rationalize his cruel thoughts and behaviors and keep his petty ego happy. When I try to empower them it's often perceived as an attack on my dad and they start defending him and criticizing themselves. Tricky situation.

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2 minutes ago, DestinyTurtle said:

It broke my heart when, my mom, after accidentally coming across some random feminist comedy novel, said that she was ashamed of being a woman (because, apparently, not agreeing with a particular comic's taste in humor means all women were disgusting). This attitude really prevails in my family and my dad goes through great lengths to perpetuate it. I think I remember him evoking Ecclesiastes 7:28 "... which I am still seeking but have not found. I have found one upright man among a thousand, but I have not found a woman among all these." to mean men (or people in general) are really sinful (original sin, yadayada), but that women were particularly evil and untrustworthy, and should be regarded as such. Ironically, it's the women in the family who go through great lengths to rationalize his cruel thoughts and behaviors and keep his petty ego happy. When I try to empower them it's often perceived as an attack on my dad and they start defending him and criticizing themselves. Tricky situation.

It really is. Another verse I couldn’t stand is “all wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman. Let the portion of a sinner fall upon her” 

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Many human societies have developed their own religions.  The human societies in which the Abrahamic religions arose were patriarchal.  It is not surprising at all that the Abrahamic religions treat women as they do.  It's really quite simple to explain.

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Oh hell, don't get me started on this topic. For so many years, I thought there was this "separate but equal" sphere for women and men in my church. I had this impression until around my early 20s, when it was expected, and I started to feel the pressure, that a woman's role in the church was to find a husband for herself, and "have as many kids as god gave them", which naturally would result in a very large family.

How could god not favour men when "the woman being deceived was in the transgression?" How can you get through the Old Testament, and all the horrific things that were done to women in there, and not believe that god favoured men? How can you not read what Paul says about the role of women in the church, and not feel that you're a lesser person because you're a female? And my church adhered to Paul to the letter.

My own mother was very anti-feminist to a certain extent, she regarded the women's movement of the 60s and 70s as sinful and against god's word. This was largely due to the no birth control, anti-abortion attitude in the church. When you believe you have no choice in the matter and that it's god's will, the only way you can justify this is by attacking the surrounding society and more widely held beliefs as the work of the devil.

There was a period of time in which I believed women's role in in the church was god's will, because it was written in the bible. But you can't get through almost two decades in the chuch as a single woman, and not feel that you are inferior because you remain unmarried and somehow aren't fulfilling a role that god ordained for you. To some extent I didn't only feel inferior to men, but to other women as well who were wives and mothers. But I was lucky enough to have strong female role models in my life who supported my independence, and in the end I think all of that helped me rebel against the system and start questioning it. 

I do think this type of fundamentalism and christianity can have real consequences for women, it did for me. Intellectually, I know all of these beliefs are BS, but emotionally I'm still rebuilding my self confidence to a certain extent.

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42 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Oh hell, don't get me started on this topic. For so many years, I thought there was this "separate but equal" sphere for women and men in my church. I had this impression until around my early 20s, when it was expected, and I started to feel the pressure, that a woman's role in the church was to find a husband for herself, and "have as many kids as god gave them", which naturally would result in a very large family.

How could god not favour men when "the woman being deceived was in the transgression?" How can you get through the Old Testament, and all the horrific things that were done to women in there, and not believe that god favoured men? How can you not read what Paul says about the role of women in the church, and not feel that you're a lesser person because you're a female? And my church adhered to Paul to the letter.

My own mother was very anti-feminist to a certain extent, she regarded the women's movement of the 60s and 70s as sinful and against god's word. This was largely due to the no birth control, anti-abortion attitude in the church. When you believe you have no choice in the matter and that it's god's will, the only way you can justify this is by attacking the surrounding society and more widely held beliefs as the work of the devil.

There was a period of time in which I believed women's role in in the church was god's will, because it was written in the bible. But you can't get through almost two decades in the chuch as a single woman, and not feel that you are inferior because you remain unmarried and somehow aren't fulfilling a role that god ordained for you. To some extent I didn't only feel inferior to men, but to other women as well who were wives and mothers. But I was lucky enough to have strong female role models in my life who supported my independence, and in the end I think all of that helped me rebel against the system and start questioning it. 

I do think this type of fundamentalism and christianity can have real consequences for women, it did for me. Intellectually, I know all of these beliefs are BS, but emotionally I'm still rebuilding my self confidence to a certain extent.

 

Keep in mind that the god you speak of is an imaginary construct invented by the patriarchs (or borrowed from earlier patriarchs) who developed, codified and enforced the particular religious dogma, and more recent males who seek to enforce and maintain that dogma in modern times.  Put simply, human action is solely responsible.  The gods are merely a projection.

 

Human genetic and memetic history contains patriarchal behavior dating back into deep time.

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49 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

Keep in mind that the god you speak of is an imaginary construct invented by the patriarchs (or borrowed from earlier patriarchs) who developed, codified and enforced the particular religious dogma, and more recent males who seek to enforce and maintain that dogma in modern times.  Put simply, human action is solely responsible.  The gods are merely a projection.

 

Human genetic and memetic history contains patriarchal behavior dating back into deep time.

Oh I know. So you can imagine what my hallelujah moment was like when I came to realize, there is no god.

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I really knew something was wrong with this religion when I read that it is better to be a wicked man than a good woman 

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3 hours ago, Nani said:

It really is. Another verse I couldn’t stand is “all wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman. Let the portion of a sinner fall upon her” 

 

One clarification: that verse isn't in Protestant Bibles. Of course, there's plenty of other crap that's canonical to Protestants, and the fact that there are different Bibles shows that the Bible is not the Word of God.

 

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1 hour ago, Citsonga said:

 

One clarification: that verse isn't in Protestant Bibles. Of course, there's plenty of other crap that's canonical to Protestants, and the fact that there are different Bibles shows that the Bible is not the Word of God.

 

True but it’s in the original King James Version which makes me think, why take these verses out?

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6 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Oh I know. So you can imagine what my hallelujah moment was like when I came to realize, there is no god.

 

There are gods.  They exist in the minds of human believers.

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On 4/1/2018 at 5:10 PM, Nani said:

True but it’s in the original King James Version which makes me think, why take these verses out?

 

Good point. It would be interesting to ask King James Only advocates why they don't actually use the 1611 KJV that they tout as the "real Bible."

 

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On 01/04/2018 at 7:19 AM, Nani said:

Any other women here who at one time actually felt they were lower than men or who thought that maybe God just favored men more? I’ve known some women who felt that way. Or guys, do you personally know any women who have felt this way?

 

I used to believe I was born to obey and submit to a husband and his family:49:

I believed that this was what God wanted me to do. 

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On 4/1/2018 at 1:19 AM, Nani said:

Any other women here who at one time actually felt they were lower than men or who thought that maybe God just favored men more? I’ve known some women who felt that way. Or guys, do you personally know any women who have felt this way?

 

I never felt that way at all. I realized whoever wrote the Bible believed women were lower than men. I didn't fully believe in Biblical inerrancy. I thought it was inspired by god, but ultimately written by men.

 

My friend's church preached very strongly that men are above women and men must always outrank whatever woman they are married to. They discouraged women from attending college and even graduating high school because you don't want to have a degree that is equal to or greater than your husband. They had a lot of beliefs about keeping yourself lower than men purposefully because it's god's will. The woman should have less education. The woman should make less money, so if your wage earning power is equal or greater you should request a part time position to lower it. If a man is losing a game against you, you should throw the game so he wins. Lots of stuff like that. From big things to little nit picky things. Then again this church actually made a young girl literally marry her rapist so they were probably more extreme than most Christians.

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