Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
nivek

WALSH: The Four Terrible Things That Are Destroying Boys In Our Culture

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, mymistake said:

 

 

It's not only analysis.  It's the underlying assumptions you use.  For the record, you are the first nice person I have met who identifies as a libertarian.  Are you sure you fit in with them?  Maybe you really don't.

 

 

Now that I think about it I would add a second principle to my comment about liberal thinking.  In addition to empathy we ask "Did they get themselves in that situation or did society not give them a chance".  I can laugh at "instant karma" videos all day long where a terrible driver is caught on camera breaking the law and then wrecks his car.  I don't empathize with people who sabotaged their own life.

 

Yeah, I'm basically in the rage of libertarian. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. I agree with most of their platforms. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TrueScotsman,

      To correct you I said I would try to make a reply last night but I was at work and we'll see. Also I tend to go slower when someone either 1. tries to rush me , and/or 2. tells me to do something. Not everything mind you but I am on my own time and you don't tell me when I need to do something. Unfortunately my work environment has changed dramatically and I only have short spans of time here and there to catch a break. It's basically 12 Hrs of hell at times. I would like to mention that I really liked @LogicalFallacy reply to the OP. It was very objective and left politics out of it. He gets two thumbs up from the ole Bishop here.

 

Here are my thoughts on the original article in the OP.

 

1. Our culture preys relentlessly on boys weaknesses. 

 

While I think he goes overboard on all of these subjects I am going to try to bring out some good points from a secular prospective. 

 

I personally don't really care about his points on the porn industry as he probably indulges in a bit of porn himself from time to time. I think the bible's sexual oppression is Toxic. I don't try to stop my boys from looking at porn. 

 

Here is the point that came out to me on this section of the article however. I can't blame anyone male or female for ogling someone who is showing off their body. There are clothes that are made to be modest and there are clothes that are specifically made to attract the attention of the opposite sex. Yet it seems that when it comes to men looking at women in scantily clad clothing we suddenly become labeled a "pervert" . We are only doing what our DNA (as @mymistake mentioned) is telling us to do. I think that our society is using a double standard when it comes to that issue. If a woman or a man is going to put their body on display they may as well expect to be looked at, because that is what those clothes are designed to do. Remember I mentioned men too in this. When a guy goes to the gym in a tight muscle shirt or NO shirt and is working out I'm pretty sure he is wanting to show off his body. I know I would if I had the body for it :-)

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that this of course does not in any way imply permission to touch or make rude offensive gestures. 

 

2. There is a catastrophic lack of male role models. 

 

Lets throw out all of the spiritual head of the house bullshit right off the bat. And get down to the good points.

 

I have to agree with him that there is a lack of male role models in today's society. I had a real dad who wasn't worth a damn and I had a step dad who became my adopted father when I was eight. He is a wonderful man and a very good role model for any child. I believe that a male child is going to look up to whatever male role model he has available to be his example for his own life. Women and men are not hardwired the same. I don't think we can debate that. We both have our equally good attributes but we are definitely different. I'm not going to say "strong" male role model. But I believe a "good" male role model is very important in the lives of developing boys. How many studies can we site concerning the probability of an abused child becoming an abuser? Or a child who's parents were addicted to drugs becoming an addict themselves, or even the cigarette user, statistically their parents or some other role model probably was a smoker.  To his point about the african american community and their lack of strong role models I have heard that from multiple sources. I would like to see a study on african american families who had father figures compared to those that didn't to see how many of the children grew up to be dead beat dads in each circumstance. I have a feeling that the statistic would be that the men who had a good male role model, probably have better chances of also becoming good male role models for their children. 

 

I think it is important for a boy to have a good male role model to live as an example to his son on how he should treat women, others, and in general how to be a productive member of society. The children  usually follow in their parents footsteps and I believe that boys need both male and female role models. I know that probably gets tricky when it comes to same sex marriages. I would like to see some studies on how children have developed when being raised by same sex couples. I know that there is usually a "male/female" role even then. I am not saying I'm against it. I would just like to see studies concerning the subject as I wonder if it ends up working the same. 

 

To answer Logicals thoughts on how it would have been in ancient times when men were at war for years at a time I would have to say that they were so entrenched in dominant male beliefs at the time that the women probably even taught their young sons to follow the existing status quo. 

 

3. the school system was designed for girls.

 

I just think that is probably all just a bunch of blather. I can't see any good points there. My boys both have ADHD and the schools now have gone above and beyond making IEP's that work for them. Now they are both honor students.

 

4. masculinity is denigrated

 

I gotta say he has a point. I even do it. It is a perception thing. I have a little girl (before you say it, yes i was the same way with the boys when they were young) and even I worry about some sicko (in my mind a man) picking my daughter up in the drive way, at walmart, or my personal nightmare, while at a theme park. I about lost my mind when I lost track of her at a water park one time. But I think that is also an instilled fear because of statistics. I think statistically there are more male sexual abuser than female. I can't agree with Walsh that it is wrong tho. I feel bad when I notice someone obviously being suspicious of me around their children but in today's society I can't blame them. I do it as well. It is always good to be cautious. I would never harm a child but I know that they don't know that. Just as I don't know that they wouldn't. To say the least we can't even trust the preacher anymore right? Just saying.

 

In this part of the article he also mentions a pet subject on this site. Toxic Masculinity. I think that this word is up for debate. I would also like a true definition of what "toxic" masculinity is. The only thing I can think of as toxic would be being denigrating toward women, abusing women, Using them, being homophobic, etc. But I think that under a liberal perspective I would probably be considered toxically masculine even though i dont fall in the above category. but I can't say for sure as I don't know what the true meaning is. If I am toxically masculine I will gladly accept my merit badge now. :-)

 

In the same token I think that our society is also filled with Toxic feminism. If I really need to elaborate I will but surely we can all agree as I stated before that the extreme of anything is bad especially for developing children. 

 

Best Regards,

Dark Bishop

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, mymistake said:

It's not only analysis.  It's the underlying assumptions you use.  For the record, you are the first nice person I have met who identifies as a libertarian.  Are you sure you fit in with them?  Maybe you really don't

 

I am heart broken. Are you saying i'm not nice? In the spirit of the thread maybe it's an aversion to Alpha Males? LMAO!! Ok maybe that wasn't nice. I agree with most libertarian Ideals. I like em. Even the pot heads.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I am heart broken. Are you saying i'm not nice? 

 

 

No.  You never told me you were a Libertarian.  I guess that makes two.  This seriously changes my world view regarding Libertarians.  Now I know where you stand on three issues.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

In the spirit of the thread maybe it's an aversion to Alpha Males? 

 

Alpha Males live in the zoo.  If you are a human being then you are a beta. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

 

Here is the point that came out to me on this section of the article however. I can't blame anyone male or female for ogling someone who is showing off their body. There are clothes that are made to be modest and there are clothes that are specifically made to attract the attention of the opposite sex. Yet it seems that when it comes to men looking at women in scantily clad clothing we suddenly become labeled a "pervert" . We are only doing what our DNA (as @mymistake mentioned) is telling us to do. I think that our society is using a double standard when it comes to that issue. If a woman or a man is going to put their body on display they may as well expect to be looked at, because that is what those clothes are designed to do. Remember I mentioned men too in this. When a guy goes to the gym in a tight muscle shirt or NO shirt and is working out I'm pretty sure he is wanting to show off his body. I know I would if I had the body for it :-)

 

 

Uh that isn't what I meant.  In fact that is so far from what I meant I wouldn't know where to start.  Don't be putting my name on that.   

 

My views are a bit more subtle.  If somebody dresses modest I assume they do not want anybody checking them out.  If somebody dresses sexy I assume they welcome others checking them out.  However staring is always rude.  Glancing and looking away it the polite way to go about it.  Of course never touch, never make rude gestures and never hit on anybody unless you have been invited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mymistake said:

 

 

No.  You never told me you were a Libertarian.  I guess that makes two.  This seriously changes my world view regarding Libertarians.  Now I know where you stand on three issues.

 

 

 

 

Alpha Males live in the zoo.  If you are a human being then you are a beta. 

 

 

 

I dont really like to "label" myself. But I do agree with them on a lot. But there are other things I don't agree with. I'm more of a third party in general type of person. I don't like either of the two major parties but you already know that.

 

And I kinda gotta laugh at ya on the beta thing. If you haven't notice Alpha and Beta within the human race you really need to open your eyes and observe. But that's for another discussion.

 

DB

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

Uh that isn't what I meant.  In fact that is so far from what I meant I wouldn't know where to start.  Don't be putting my name on that.   

 

My views are a bit more subtle.  If somebody dresses modest I assume they do not want anybody checking them out.  If somebody dresses sexy I assume they welcome others checking them out.  However staring is always rude.  Glancing and looking away it the polite way to go about it.  Of course never touch, never make rude gestures and never hit on anybody unless you have been invited.

 

It's in our DNA to be attracted to the opposite sex bro. Accept your DNA. I agree with the no touching and rude gestures. I actually meant to mention that and it slipped my mind.

 

I will edit it for clarity

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

If you haven't notice Alpha and Beta within the human race you really need to open your eyes and observe. But that's for another discussion.

 

 

Humans have alphas positions but these positions are temporary.  It's completely situational.

 

If your only skill set in life is being big, violent and male then you spend most of your life in prison.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

It's in our DNA to be attracted to the opposite sex bro. Accept your DNA.

 

 

It is in my DNA but not for everybody's.  I stopped feeling guilty about it when I left Christianity.

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mymistake said:

 

Humans have alphas positions but they are temporary.  It's completely situational.

 

If your only skill set in life is being big, violent and male then you spend most of your life in prison.

 

Ok I'm going to flash my toxic masculinity achievement badge here a bit but. It Doesn't take a big guy to be an alpha with humans. It probably does help. But it is more of a complete persona of Dominance or confidence. There are men and women alike that are just naturally submissive to the more dominant men and women. lets take high school "clicks" for instance. There is usually an obvious leader of the group that the others follow. Male and female. That is the Alpha. It can change back and forth with us tho depending on life circumstances. Some prevail to stay on top there whole lives. Usually in a field of study or area of interest that others might be a part of. These are just personal observations but I bet it could probably be verified through science if it hasn't already. After all we are just animals. Just a bit more intelligent than our primate cousins.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

It is in my DNA but not for everybody's.  I stopped feeling guilty about it when I left Christianity.

 

Yep ME TOO!!!! LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Ok I'm going to flash my toxic masculinity achievement badge here a bit but. It Doesn't take a big guy to be an alpha with humans. It probably does help. But it is more of a complete persona of Dominance or confidence. There are men and women alike that are just naturally submissive to the more dominant men and women. lets take high school "clicks" for instance. There is usually an obvious leader of the group that the others follow. Male and female. That is the Alpha. It can change back and forth with us tho depending on life circumstances. Some prevail to stay on top there whole lives. Usually in a field of study or area of interest that others might be a part of. These are just personal observations but I bet it could probably be verified through science if it hasn't already. After all we are just animals. Just a bit more intelligent than our primate cousins.

 

For humans the alpha is the richest person.  Maybe a big, stupid, mean kid will bully smaller kids in school.  But when he turns 18 that stupid guy has to get a job at minimum wage while the people he bullied go to college and become alphas.

 

When I want some furniture moved or a hole dug I find a bunch of huge muscle heads and I tell them what to do.  They are all "yes sir" because they know I tip well.

 

 

This is what I was getting at earlier.  Gorillas, orangoutangs and chimps are three species that are alpha.  Unless there is a deformity, a chimp female will be stronger and more aggressive than any human male.  Much more hair too.  We came to dominate the world because we are a species of betas.  We stopped trying to beat each other up enough to start cooperating and that is how we invented technology and took over the world.  Our beta traits are what make us dominant as a species.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys are taking alpha male to the same place as "proof," and "race." We're down to semantics and technicalities at this point. 

 

I've often used the term, "dominant male," to describe what people mean here with their usage of "alpha male." A dominant human male, to be exact. We're clearly not talking about cross species, monkey's to humans, or anything like that. We're talking about human males who are clearly dominant in a given social circle. That dominance can come from many different factors, including money, power, strength and / or intelligence. And is far more dominant the more an individual has of each area of concern. 

 

This is what people mean by "alpha male." 

 

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

You guys are taking alpha male to the same place as "proof," and "race." We're down to semantics and technicalities at this point. 

 

I've often used the term, "dominant male," to describe what people mean here with their usage of "alpha male." A dominant human male, to be exact. We're clearly not talking about cross species, monkey's to humans, or anything like that. We're talking about human males who are clearly dominant in a given social circle. That dominance can come from many different factors, including money, power, strength and / or intelligence. And is far more dominant the more an individual has of each area of concern. 

 

This is what people mean by "alpha male." 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a mentality of worshiping "the alpha male".  One aspect of this is the demand that you have to raise your boys as "alpha males" or else the matriarchy will ruin boys.  It's nonsense based on nothing.  Really it has nothing to do with real human interactions except that sometimes the same phrase is used for both.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

 

There is a mentality of worshiping "the alpha male".  One aspect of this is the demand that you have to raise your boys as "alpha males" or else the matriarchy will ruin boys.  It's nonsense based on nothing.  Really it has nothing to do with real human interactions except that sometimes the same phrase is used for both.

 

 

There is? 

 

Look up to, I get. But worship, not so much. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently people have different definitions of "alpha." There is the nostalgic alpha who hunts, wins fist fights, carries a gun and drives a muscle car. Then there is the modern alpha who succeeds in mental, creative and financial arenas. Both types can find mates and success in life, but societal evolution is favoring the latter type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

There is? 

 

Look up to, I get. But worship, not so much. 

 

 

I wasn't talking about you specifically, nor any member of ex-C.  I'm trying to describe why Alex Jones is on the air.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mymistake said:

 

 

I wasn't talking about you specifically, nor any member of ex-C.  I'm trying to describe why Alex Jones is on the air.  

 

Well, it was interesting for a time, but I've announced in the spirituality section that I'm going to honor something Mark and I discussed before his passing about remaining apolitical, and sticking only to issues of science and religion and the goal of helping deconverts as much as possible in those areas. His assertion was that it can be counter productive to the purpose of the site and I find myself having to agree with him after reading and participating in these political discussions. I'm not democrat or republican. I've not joined the libertarians. And I'm very unimpressed with the political state of the US as a whole. So I'll just return to ignoring politics altogether as I've done for the duration of my adult life. 

 

I apologize to any members that I may have offended with my rants about left wing politics and radical liberal views. 

 

They're now officially over. 

 

Take care. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A fundy Christian complaining about women complaining about the patriarchy? LOL!

 

I don't believe there is a patriarchy in the US, but I don't think Matt Walsh would be terribly concerned if there were.

 

Also, I see his name and automatically gag.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2018 at 12:42 PM, florduh said:

Apparently people have different definitions of "alpha." There is the nostalgic alpha who hunts, wins fist fights, carries a gun and drives a muscle car. Then there is the modern alpha who succeeds in mental, creative and financial arenas. Both types can find mates and success in life, but societal evolution is favoring the latter type.

 

I'm an alpha nerd. I can out-solder any of you fools. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

I'm an alpha nerd. I can out-solder any of you fools. :)

I could solder your ass into oblivion. Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, florduh said:

I could solder your ass into oblivion. Just saying.

 

Wow! There's an actual competition!

 

https://www.eptac.com/winners-of-ipc-world-championship-hand-soldering-competition-honored/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2018 at 3:42 PM, florduh said:

Apparently people have different definitions of "alpha." There is the nostalgic alpha who hunts, wins fist fights, carries a gun and drives a muscle car. Then there is the modern alpha who succeeds in mental, creative and financial arenas. Both types can find mates and success in life, but societal evolution is favoring the latter type.

Thank you Florduh, The Modern Alpha male was the one I was speaking of but decided not to delve into another circular arguement over whether we are all betas or not. For me the answer is obvious. We’ve evolved very differently than our primate cousins but non the less we do still have Alphas. I think it’s a terminology difference between what I was saying and what Scotsman was saying. 

 

      And I agree with @Burnedout it may just be a little beta jealousy 🤣 Don’t hate me because I’m an Alpha! 

 

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2018 at 3:20 PM, mymistake said:

 

 

 

There is a mentality of worshiping "the alpha male".  One aspect of this is the demand that you have to raise your boys as "alpha males" or else the matriarchy will ruin boys.  It's nonsense based on nothing.  Really it has nothing to do with real human interactions except that sometimes the same phrase is used for both.

 

 

Were you relating this to the OP or just the Alpha discussion?

 

If it is related to the OP are you saying that not having a good male role model will not hurt or benefit a child’s Developement?

 

If we use the terminology that florduh describes about the modern Alpha. Are you saying it is wrong to raise your child to be successful? Or confident? Or skillful? 

 

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL all you have to do is ask me some questions and BO will up-vote you.

 

3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Were you relating this to the OP or just the Alpha discussion?

 

Both.

 

 

3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

If it is related to the OP are you saying that not having a good male role model will not hurt or benefit a child’s Developement?

 

Having screwed up caregivers will hurt a child's development.  I don't think one caregiver needs to be male.

 

 

3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

If we use the terminology that florduh describes about the modern Alpha. Are you saying it is wrong to raise your child to be successful? Or confident? Or skillful?

 

Of course that is fine.

 

 

3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Don’t hate me because I’m an Alpha! 

 

Oh cool.  I don't have any work for you right now but if I need a trench dug or some furniture moved I will be sure to call you.  😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.