Religion versus Psychiatry

[SeniorCitizen007]

Nowadays people here in the UK need to be very careful ... psychiatry has a host of labels ready to place in one's medical records. It is not generally known that here in the UK all NHS records relating to patients' mental health ... some of them going back to before the NHS was founded ... are kept somewhere.

 

When I signed on with a doctor in 2010 the practice nurse discovered that in 1962 I had been sectioned for a month (after a suicide attempt) and a note was made in my records ... 'Suspected schizophrenia' ... my grandmother had been in a mental hospital since 1930 with this diagnosis. I'd had no contact with psychiatry since being discharged back way back then in 1962. The nurse placed the following on the computer summary of my medical records:

 

Age 19 years

Sectioned

Suspected schizophrenia

No definite diagnosis.

 

I mentioned this to an elderly friend of mine, a woman in her 90s, who told me that when she recently went into hospital for a minor operation a doctor had said to her: "I see that you were diagnosed with schizophrenia in 1936". At the age of 16 a doctor (way before the NHS existed) had told her that she was suffering from schizophrenic ... she was not given any treatment and nothing more was said about it ... for 75 years.

 

When the concept of schizophrenia first appeared (in the late 19th century) books were written claiming that Jesus (and other prominent religious figures) were schizophrenics.

 

What do you think?  

     

[pantheory]

Many here at the X  forum either think the person we call Jesus of the bible was a fable, or if he was a real person most of the stories of the New Testament are fantasy. From this perspective it would seemingly be folly to discuss a possible psychological profile involving such a fabled person.

[Joshpantera]

2 hours ago, pantheory said:

Many here at the X  forum either think the person we call Jesus of the bible was a fable, or if he was a real person most of the stories of the New Testament are fantasy. From this perspective it would seemingly be folly to discuss a possible psychological profile involving such a fabled person.

 

At best, guy's like Jesus might be modeled after religious types of the time, who would have turned out to be schizophrenic. I've heard similar claims about Paul. Ellen G White, the founder of SDAism, was hit in the head with a rock as a little girl, later having or claiming to have visions from god. Many suspect that by today's standards she was more than likely suffering frontal lope epilepsy. It's all speculative. 

 

But the content of their speaking and action has a common thread that seems to point to either psychological illness, or being modeled, as myths, after people who are psychologically ill. 

 

Let's face it, hearing things, seeing things, having visions, claiming out of body experiences based and getting caught up to the seventh heaven, and claiming you're the god of the universe, hint of psychological illness if we're to understand them as really happening to real historical figures.... 

[sdelsolray]

16 hours ago, SeniorCitizen007 said:

...

What do you think?  

     

 

1)  As to historical medical records, I think it is appropriate for them to be maintained and to be called upon when legitimately needed.  The issue of privacy of such records is another question which I will not address here.

 

2)  Whether someome claimed, surmised or speculated that Jesus, or any other historical or modern person, had or have mental, psychological or emotional dysfunctions is of little import.  Of course, more credence should be given to such accounts if the author had access to actual evidence of and the causal link to the claimed infirmary.

[Storm]

One thing I would like to point out is that, even if a person may meet the criteria for an official diagnosis for some type of mental health disorder, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have an issue. The primary factor in the diagnosis is about the persons quality of life and if there are significant enough deficits that warrant a diagnosis in order for treatment to be applied, thus improving their quality of life. There are a lot of situational factors that can affect a possible diagnosis, and those factors need to be seen in the whole picture, not just in a slice of a point in that persons life. Secondly, diagnoses are not necessarily static. People change and grow mentally and what may have been true at one point of their life, may not be true at a different point.

 

I would also say that the criteria for a diagnosis for schizophrenia was likely more broad from the 1900's to the 80's than it is for a diagnosis now. Psychology was still in its infancy in the early 1900's and we have come a long way since then.

[SeniorCitizen007]

On 4/23/2018 at 12:57 PM, Storm said:

.. the criteria for a diagnosis for schizophrenia was likely more broad from the 1900's to the 80's than it is for a diagnosis now. 

 

The opposite is actually true ... nowadays one doesn't have to be totally insane to end up with the diagnosis of Schizophrenia. Prior to the 1970s Schizophrenia was a condition of mind in which people TOTALLY DENIED there was anything wrong with them.

 

In the 90s a psychologist I arranged to see ... much against the wishes of my then GP (who was alarmed by the word the fact that 'Suspected SCHIZOPHRENIA' was in my medical records) asked me, 5 minutes after meeting me: "Do you know what Asperger's syndrome is?"

 

She said she had six other clients who had been labelled Schizophrenic when they actually had Autistic syndromes.

 

Some psychiatrists claim that Autism is a form of Schizophrenia.

 

They are wrong ... Autism is NOT a mental illness ... nor is it a personality disorder.

 

I have a 160+ IQ (whatever that means).

 

 

[sdelsolray]

Schizophrenia is defined by the professionals who deal with it:

 

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/schizophrenia-disorder-dsm--5-295.90-(f20.9)

 

 

[SeniorCitizen007]

1 hour ago, sdelsolray said:

Schizophrenia is defined by the professionals who deal with it:

 

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/schizophrenia-disorder-dsm--5-295.90-(f20.9)

 

 

Clairvoyance = hallucinations

Clairaudience = hearing voices

Etc.

 

My elderly  mother started having vivid nightmares about her childhood. For a couple of years before her mother was hospitalised she was very cruel to her children. We took her to a Spiritualist church ... where we'd never been before. The medium was giving a demonstration of her abilities to a hall full of people. When she came to my mother the medium sternly said: "Your mother loved you!" My mother opened her mouth .. but ... before she could speak, the medium repeated: "Your mother loved you!"

 

She then focused on me.

 

A puzzled look came over her face and she said: "I'm getting images of bicycle parts?"

 

Earlier that day my brother had shown me a dismantled bicycle and had asked my opinion about whether it was worth reassembling.

 

My mother's nightmares stopped and she dreamed about how things were before her mother fell ill ... of a time when her mother loved her.

 

I'm met many mediums ... and they have never failed to impress me.

 

When I was 55 I married a woman of 27. Shortly before our marriage, on the day we arranged it, I took her to a Spiritualist church. The medium looked at us and said: "I'm hearing wedding bells". He then proceeded to accurately describe the significant, disruptive experiences she'd had in her life and encouraged her to look forward to the future.

 

Schizophrenics can be thought of as suffering from a sort of disordered spiritual experience that they have no understanding of ... brought on by stress, hostile parenting, drugs (illegal and prescribed), etc.

 

I'm an atheist ... as are a considerable percentage of mediums.

 

All you have to do is pay a visit to your local Spiritualist church and you might get a BIG surprise!

 

The propaganda against Spiritualism is VERY wide of the mark.

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I choose not to investigate spiritual and pseudoscience woo woo, particularly empty anecdotal claims.  I've already done enough of that and found them to have no basis in reality.

[SeniorCitizen007]

2 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I choose not to investigate spiritual woo woo, particularly anecdotal claims.  I've already done enough of that and found them empty and with no basis in reality.

 

Some years ago a reporter described, in a National newspaper, what he experienced when he went to a Spiritualist church ... he claimed that he saw DEMONS hovering around in the upper parts of the church. He warned people that Spititualism is EVIL

 

What would you think was going on if you decided to check out your local Spiritualist church ... and you clearly saw the medium "turn into someone else" ... maybe of a different sex, age and wearing clothes "not of our time". Would you think that you had been "driven mad" in some way? ... and if you hung around and spoke to others present they also claimed to have similar experiences ... and were  

[SeniorCitizen007]

... not in any way bothered by their experiences.

 

Sometimes these Spiritualist churches have quite a lot of people attending them, normal, local people ... who are by no means "unhinged". 

[SeniorCitizen007]

Dotted around the country there are centers where one can learn to develop and understand this side of our minds.

 

Britain once had a Prime Minister whose wife was a medium.

 

[sdelsolray]

Your anecdotes, speculations and inventions are of little interest.  Sorry, I have no further response.  

[Joshpantera]

21 hours ago, SeniorCitizen007 said:

What would you think was going on if you decided to check out your local Spiritualist church ... and you clearly saw the medium "turn into someone else" ... maybe of a different sex, age and wearing clothes "not of our time". Would you think that you had been "driven mad" in some way? ... and if you hung around and spoke to others present they also claimed to have similar experiences ... and were  

 

You may want to take such delusional conditions more seriously. If a medical professional has told you that schizophrenia is a concern, you should probably be more concerned rather than trying to excuse it as regular spiritualist, medium behavior. Especially if it's coming at you down the gene pool from your grandmother. If you, "see dead people," that's a big red flag mental health wise. My ex fiance was stricken with some sort of paranoid schizophrenia which had gone unchecked throughout life. She constantly thought spirits were traveling through her house, as if the house just happened to be some sort of portal for souls. She was paranoid at just about everything, obsessively. I wound up having to knee jerk pack all my belongings and haul ass one day, abruptly, while she was work, to GTFO. 

 

Neither her, nor her informing spirits saw it coming. lol

 

Long story short, you may need help. Delusional behavior is always fucked up, not normal and healthy "spiritualist," life style. 

 

Nickels worth of free advise.....

[LogicalFallacy]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:16 AM, SeniorCitizen007 said:

Some years ago a reporter described, in a National newspaper, what he experienced when he went to a Spiritualist church ... he claimed that he saw DEMONS hovering around in the upper parts of the church. He warned people that Spititualism is EVIL

 

What would you think was going on if you decided to check out your local Spiritualist church ... and you clearly saw the medium "turn into someone else" ... maybe of a different sex, age and wearing clothes "not of our time". Would you think that you had been "driven mad" in some way? ... and if you hung around and spoke to others present they also claimed to have similar experiences ... and were  

 

This never happens under controlled testing conditions - ever.

 

So one can then conclude that either 1) Spiritualism doesn't work under controlled testing conditions, and we must ask ourselves why, or 2) People reporting such experiences actually do have psychiatric conditions that need medical attention.

 

As to what would I conclude? Well If I saw them I would probably be deluded so would believe it - remember the definition of delusion is believing in something despite reality showing the contrary. Now if I went there and I didn't see anything but other people were claiming to see stuff then I'd conclude that they were hallucinating or had some condition I was unaware of.