Ooops! Did I go too far?

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I left the church, and shortly after became agnostic, about 20 years ago.  My wife continued to attend, but eventually got tired of going by herself.   Said she didn't feel like she fit in anymore.  She has said several times she misses going, and feels something is missing in her life.  To me she never had any really strong convictions, and never studies her Bible.  It must be that strong early conditioning that she "should" go to church.  Her family attended church, but we're certainly not zealots. 

 

We were both shocked when Trump was elected.  Literally felt nauseous.  I have been amazed at times about how well she can read people, especially men.  Last night she was telling me about something Trump had done, and made a comment something like, "don't people understand how devious the man is?  I just don't understand how they can have faith in him."  She was mainly talking about our politicians, but several in her family and mine support him.

 

She understands the political influence and party loyalty, thinking it is pathetic, with which I agree.  I proceeded to tell her I thought it was because some, like our relatives, had limited information about him, and about what is in our society's best interest.  Almost all our relatives only watch Fox news, and are very right wing.  They think that "liberals" are in bed with the devil.  She was very emotional and continued with how stupid they are.  I said that sometimes good people have "blind spots".  Can be very rational about some things, but blind about other things.  She said something like, "It just doesn't make sense."

 

Then I stuck my foot in my mouth, and said,  "sometimes people only see what they want to see.  They don't want information that disagrees with what they already believe."  She said something like, "that's not very smart."  Then I reminded her that she has never read my essay about my search for truth.  She still believes in the Christian God, but has never looked at the evidence.  That set her off!  She yelled, "Thats not the same as Donald Trump."  My reply was, "it's not??"  Needless to say, I have received a very cold shoulder for the last 24 hours.

 

Explanation:  For 10 years after writing my paper, and it was very obvious I was writing it, she has never asked to read it.  I offered it once when it was near completion, she read a few pages, never said a word, put it down, and never picked it up again.  I felt slighted, but never said anything.  The feeling came back in our conversation about Trump last night.  But that was obviously not a good time to try to make a point.  

 

You guys and gals be my coach, or therapist, or whatever.  Where would you go from here?  We are both in our mid 70s, she is a good woman and mother, and we have been married 50 years.  There is some concern she has beginning dementia, and LOL, I'll admit I'm not as sharp as I used to be.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Welcome! And I’m going to be honest. At this point what’s the use in upsetting her? She probably has it made up in her mind what she believes. If she isn’t being pushy I would say just to enjoy your golden years with her. Especially if she is getting dementia. No use spending the quality time you have left resenting each other over something that doesn’t even matter since she isn’t a fundamentalist Christian. 

 

DB

[mymistake]

Yeah I choose to make peace with my believing wife.  Once in a while I will complain about Christianity but only a little bit.  Maybe the best move now is to apologize for making too many waves?  Tell her you love her even if you don't share her beliefs?  You are not going to turn her into an atheist because it doesn't work that way.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Thanks for the responses.  This morning, as I look back on last night's post,  I ask myself why I made it.   I dont even drink, so can't blame it on being drunk!  My ego got the best of me.  We human beings are perplexing creatures.  With our denials of reality, refusals to look at all sides of issues, and blindly following heros and "holy ones", it is no wonder we have so many problems in society.  Early despots knew what they were doing when they came up with the concept of original sin.  To keep control of the masses, we are conditioned to believe there are some things you just don't question.  

[Geezer]

Experience has taught me that religious people, actually anyone that deeply believes in something or someone, develop blind spots, as you noted. I've come to accept their minds are incapable of logically or rationally processing information that challenges a deeply held belief. 

 

Religious folk actually do seem to believe agnostics/atheists are literally agents of the Devil. They apparently are convinced we have become possessed by demonic forces that now control our minds.

 

Never underestimate the power of religious indoctrination. It might be best to avoid discussions that involve religion as much as possible. 

[MOHO]

Apologize, @Weezer!!!!!

 

Married 50 years you know you have to man up and do it. 

No explanations. 

No qualifying your apology.

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, MOHO said:

Apologize, @Weezer!!!!!

 

Married 50 years you know you have to man up and do it. 

No explanations. 

No qualifying your apology.

 

 

 

I could tell she was honestly hurt, and I did apologise with no qualifying.   Even before I posted here.   I just needed to vent.

 

 It is really frustrating to spend 30 agonizing years honestly trying to determine truth on an extremely important subject, and when you have clearly found it, be ignored, yelled at, and in a sense shunned, at least emotionally, by many in the family, and many friends.  I have intellectually been aware of this for years, but I think the emotional weight of the loneliness, sadness and anger came crashing down in our discussion night before last.  I am really beginning to feel the abandonment.  But the truth is so clear, I could never go back.  And knowing how the believers think, in a sense, they think I have abandoned them.  What a mess!!

 

Writing this is therapeutic. Thanks for listening, and responding.  

[MOHO]

10 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I could tell she was honestly hurt, and I did apologise with no qualifying.   Even before I posted here.   I just needed to vent.

 

 It is really frustrating to spend 30 agonizing years honestly trying to determine truth on an extremely important subject, and when you have clearly found it, be ignored, yelled at, and in a sense shunned, at least emotionally, by many in the family, and many friends.  I have intellectually been aware of this for years, but I think the emotional weight of the loneliness, sadness and anger came crashing down in our discussion night before last.  I am really beginning to feel the abandonment.  But the truth is so clear, I could never go back.  And knowing how the believers think, in a sense, they think I have abandoned them.  What a mess!!

 

Writing this is therapeutic. Thanks for listening, and responding.  

 

I'm right there with 'ya, @Weezer.

 

My fams have become distant in the past year with my step son (adult not living with us) only grunting and making cow noises when I opine or defend my position on religion. In their eyes I am the lowest form of life even though my standards for the treatment of others are higher than theirs. Mrs. MOHO has even taken to attacking the fact that I am college degreed - sighting "those people" as begin "godless and arrogant." Forget that I finance her nice lifestyle due, in large part, to my education. 

 

Yup. Sometimes I just want to explode and rip into them and their superstition. I'm tolerant when they keep it to themselves but when they ram it down my throat or judge me harshly based on what I call thinking for myself (hence my moniker) that's another conversation. 

[buffettphan]

14 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I could tell she was honestly hurt, and I did apologise with no qualifying.   Even before I posted here.   I just needed to vent.

 

 It is really frustrating to spend 30 agonizing years honestly trying to determine truth on an extremely important subject, and when you have clearly found it, be ignored, yelled at, and in a sense shunned, at least emotionally, by many in the family, and many friends.  I have intellectually been aware of this for years, but I think the emotional weight of the loneliness, sadness and anger came crashing down in our discussion night before last.  I am really beginning to feel the abandonment.  But the truth is so clear, I could never go back.  And knowing how the believers think, in a sense, they think I have abandoned them.  What a mess!!

 

Writing this is therapeutic. Thanks for listening, and responding.  

 

3 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

I'm right there with 'ya, @Weezer.

 

My fams have become distant in the past year with my step son (adult not living with us) only grunting and making cow noises when I opine or defend my position on religion. In their eyes I am the lowest form of life even though my standards for the treatment of others are higher than theirs. Mrs. MOHO has even taken to attacking the fact that I am college degreed - sighting "those people" as begin "godless and arrogant." Forget that I finance her nice lifestyle due, in large part, to my education. 

 

Yup. Sometimes I just want to explode and rip into them and their superstition. I'm tolerant when they keep it to themselves but when they ram it down my throat or judge me harshly based on what I call thinking for myself (hence my moniker) that's another conversation. 

 

 

I'm in the same pack.  It can get lonely and I hate all their superior attitudes.    Most of the time I'm ok, but other times..................... 

 

(Coming up on 45th anniversary.  Mr. Buffettphan was brainwashed into bornagainism about a dozen years and two kids into our marriage.)

[older]

What's also annoying is when you are accused of being "anti-Christian" merely because you don't believe. Being atheistic and being anti-Christian are two different things that are not necessarily concentric. But in their minds, if you aren't with them, you are against them.

[MOHO]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:53 AM, buffettphan said:

I'm in the same pack.  It can get lonely and I hate all their superior attitudes.    Most of the time I'm ok, but other times..................... 

 

They ARE superior to you, Buff!

 

They believe in a being and a concept that does not exist and, for which, there is little or no evidence. In addition they cannot seem to accept reality. Furthermore they are willing to push this nonsense on others, to include bullying non-believers,  just to bolster their convictions so that they can keep their heads in the sand. 

 

But I really should not be so harsh as we were all one of them at one point, eh? I sincerely hope I never treated anyone the way some of them are treating me now.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I am reading Ken Follett's new book, A Column Of Fire.  I know it is historical fiction, but his depiction of how the Catholic  Church handled the protestant rebellion seems pretty accurate from other reading I have done.  Looking at the mayhem and bloody gore that went on, i guess we have it pretty easy compared to what the protestant heretics went tnrough.  At least we aren't being drawn, quartered, and burned at stake.  HA!  I guess there is always something we can be thankful for!  And to think the Catholics did that sort of thing for centuries is almost unthinkable.

 

If you haven't read any of his work, I highly recommend all his books.  I think I have read them all.  His history seems accurate, and I have enjoyed all of them.