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Fweethawt

How you can be a better ally to white people.

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12 minutes ago, mymistake said:

You found and produced sources of black people who are racist against whites.  Fwee did not.  He just put up his poster with no context.

And does this make the post any more or any less than what it actually is? 

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On 4/23/2018 at 7:25 PM, florduh said:

For what it may be worth, I am once again ashamed of some of the shit that makes it to this site. Anybody else care or is it just me? Feeling rather alone here. Mods? Anyone?

What exactly in the post is bigoted? The point is that it would be correctly considered disgusting if it were aimed at black people, but that this sort of thing is directed at white people, by some black people. Condescending racism - yes, racism - is socially acceptable if the targets are Caucasian. Yet some, instead of considering the reality of what it's saying, would rather have a knee-jerk reaction and dismiss it as anti-black.

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On 4/23/2018 at 8:10 PM, mymistake said:

 

 

Perhaps you don't know but that is incredibly insensitive.  It's insensitive to the horrible way black people were treated all through our history.  It's insensitive to the horrible way black people alive right now have been treated.  Yes we have Black History Month and MLK day and we try to raise awairness to try to make black people feel more welcome.  It doesn't make up for all the horrible things that were done to them and those who came before them.

 

 

The historical treatment of black Americans doesn't excuse the current treatment of white Americans.

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9 minutes ago, Fweethawt said:

And does this make the post any more or any less than what it actually is? 

 

 

You don't seem to care that there are implications and consequences.  I didn't say that you are racist.  I said that what you posted was insensitive.

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Just now, Lilith666 said:

The historical treatment of black Americans doesn't excuse the current treatment of white Americans.

 

Really?  Okay how are you being discriminated against because of being white.

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4 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

You don't seem to care that there are implications and consequences.  I didn't say that you are racist.  I said that what you posted was insensitive.

 

Normally I'd ask something as "..who lit that string on yer manpon?" in regards to "sensitive".  Egg shells are part of what we feed sacred cows here, not carefully walk on them...

 

Back to life in TOT. Nothing here to see, read or comprehend. Sorry. Same Bat time, same Bat channel.  

 

kL

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3 minutes ago, SkipNChurch said:

 

Normally I'd ask something as "..who lit that string on yer manpon?" in regards to "sensitive".  Egg shells are part of what we feed sacred cows here, not carefully walk on them...

 

Back to life in TOT. Nothing here to see, read or comprehend. Sorry. Same Bat time, same Bat channel.  

 

kL

 

Bless your heart.

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30 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

You don't seem to care that there are implications and consequences.  I didn't say that you are racist.  I said that what you posted was insensitive.

 

So what?

 

Implications and consequences goes both ways. Criticism is a consequence of posting hypocritical and racist things.

 

You've already basically admitted that it's a valid criticism. Criticism by its very nature is "insensitive". So what is the issue exactly?

 

I'd also point out that the behavior it is criticizing is even more "insensitive" and completely lacking in empathy of any kind.

 

Should we censor ourselves and not criticize things that we think should be criticized because it might hurt someone's feelings?

 

I don't see that as a good idea as it enables such behavior. There is such a thing as being too sensitive to the point it is detrimental.

 

I personally value open discussion more than "sensitivity" and I'm fairly confident the majority of the forum would agree with that.

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16 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

You've already basically admitted that it's a valid criticism.  

 

No.  You produced a source for racism against whites.  Fwee didn't.  That doesn't give you the right to change what I said of make stuff up.

 

 

17 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

Criticism by its very nature is "insensitive".

 

No.  Some criticism is valid but that doesn't make all criticism racially insensitive.  Did I need to explain that sensitivity refers to the history of race relations in the US?  Wait, I thought I had clarified that part.

 

 

19 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

Should we censor ourselves and not criticize things that we think should be criticized because it might hurt someone's feelings?

 

Remember how I responded to the racism against whites when you finally produced some? 

 

 

20 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

There is such a thing as being too sensitive to the point it is detrimental.

 

So have you suffered discrimination and racism because you are white?

 

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1 minute ago, mymistake said:

 

No.  You produced a source for racism against whites.  Fwee didn't.  That doesn't give you the right to change what I said of make stuff up.

 

 

 

No.  Some criticism is valid but that doesn't make all criticism racially insensitive.  Did I need to explain that sensitivity refers to the history of race relations in the US?  Wait, I thought I had clarified that part.

 

 

 

Remember how I responded to the racism against whites when you finally produced some? 

 

 

 

So have you suffered discrimination and racism because you are white?

 

 

He shouldn't have had to really. As he said, the image was not more than it was because he didn't.

 

It's a valid criticism. How "sensitive" it was or was not is irrelevant.

 

Yes, which is why I said you basically admitted that it is a valid criticism, and it is.

 

Yes, but not to near the extent or severity that many PoC suffer. I'm not saying that what I've had to deal with is worse, but the fact that others suffer more or deal with it far more frequently does not justify anti-white racism, or mean that it should not be challenged or criticized, which is exactly what the OP image is doing. One injustice does not validate another, or protect it from criticism.

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33 minutes ago, ContraBardus said:

 

Yes, which is why I said you basically admitted that it is a valid criticism, and it is.

 

 

You can't admit that you were wrong so you have to change what I said.  Yet changing what I said means it no longer is what I said.

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24 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

You can't admit that you were wrong so you have to change what I said.  Yet changing what I said means it no longer is what I said.

 

Not really. You did admit this, not directly, but you did.

 

In saying that the racism I posted is valid racism, and that the point of the OP image is to be critical of it [which you are by claiming that "Fwee didn't provide context"], you did indeed admit that it is making a valid argument.

 

Now you're falling back on "well, Fwee didn't provide context..." and "It's insensitive" because that's the only place you have left to stand, and even that is crumbling under your feet.

 

I didn't change what you said at all. You're just wishing you hadn't said it anymore because it basically invalidates your entire stance, and are jumping through hoops to try and walk it back and weasel out of it.

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1 hour ago, ContraBardus said:

 I didn't change what you said at all. 

 

Yes you did.  I've already explained it multiple times.  But you will never admit you made a mistake so of course you take this strategy because of course you will.

 

 

1 hour ago, ContraBardus said:

You're just wishing you hadn't said it anymore because it basically invalidates your entire stance, and are jumping through hoops to try and walk it back and weasel out of it.

 

Bullshit.  I would be happy to repeat everything I have said in this thread but that is all I am doing.  I repeat myself.  Then I repeat myself again.  Between repeating myself I have to remind you that I didn't say what you are trying to twist my words into.  This is all just a game to you.

 

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50 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

Yes you did.  I've already explained it multiple times.  But you will never admit you made a mistake so of course you take this strategy because of course you will.

 

 

 

Bullshit.  I would be happy to repeat everything I have said in this thread but that is all I am doing.  I repeat myself.  Then I repeat myself again.  Between repeating myself I have to remind you that I didn't say what you are trying to twist my words into.  This is all just a game to you.

 

 

I think you're taking everything about this thread too seriously.

 

At the end of the day, the image is a satirical criticism of the exact thing I provided examples for. There is nothing really wrong with it, nor is it incorrect about what it is attempting to shine a light on.

 

You've really got no standing to claim it's anything other than that. There didn't need to be context provided to prove what it was, and it isn't something different than it is without that context.

 

You read into it to an unreasonable level, and that's no one's fault but your own.

 

Nobody owes anyone else an apology regarding it, it's not out of place here, has no white supremacy undertones or racist implications, and is actually doing the exact opposite in regard to racist hypocrisy. It's quite reasonable in its satirical message and isn't really out of line at all.

 

It made you uncomfortable, but that's no one's fault but yours.

 

It's not even really insensitive to be honest. It's just brutally honest satire in opposition to a phenomenon that actually is insensitive that I've already proven beyond doubt happens. That's just a label you've doubled down on because you couldn't find something else wrong with it.

 

There have been posts in this area of the forums I would agree with you if you said that they are racially insensitive. This isn't one of them.

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3 hours ago, Lilith666 said:

What exactly in the post is bigoted? The point is that it would be correctly considered disgusting if it were aimed at black people, but that this sort of thing is directed at white people, by some black people. Condescending racism - yes, racism - is socially acceptable if the targets are Caucasian. Yet some, instead of considering the reality of what it's saying, would rather have a knee-jerk reaction and dismiss it as anti-black.

 

Does the meme bring us all in agreement that it is uplifting to humanity? I dont think it does.

Is the meme a teaching tool or a tit-for-tat response written by someone who's 'sick and tired of this PC bullshit tm ?' The latter is probably more true.

 

I kind of like Morgan Freeman's thoughts on racism. Stop talking about it. It's probably not a comprehensive solution, but might be more helpful than memes like the OP. Stop propagating race chatter. Stop thinking about someone's race that you come into contact with.

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18 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Does the meme bring us all in agreement that it is uplifting to humanity? I dont think it does.

Is the meme a teaching tool or a tit-for-tat response written by someone who's 'sick and tired of this PC bullshit tm ?' The latter is probably more true.

 

I kind of like Morgan Freeman's thoughts on racism. Stop talking about it. It's probably not a comprehensive solution, but might be more helpful than memes like the OP. Stop propagating race chatter. Stop thinking about someone's race that you come into contact with.

 

If we ignore racism it will go away, right?

 

That'll totally work.

 

Even if it was created by a racist, a broken clock is right twice a day and all that.

 

The merits of the specific argument of the OP meme image are what we're discussing here. It's a valid criticism, so why should we bury it?

 

As I said, there has been some questionable stuff posted here in the past. I'd agree if someone commented that such posts are insensitive and would be willing to discuss whether or not they are appropriate for this forum, but this one isn't one of those posts. It makes a valid point to a phenomenon I've already shown is an issue. Not as big a one as the racism PoC face, but that doesn't excuse it.

 

That said, if a racist post was made as a joke in a thread full of jokes that target a wide variety of people, I'd have a lot less of a problem with it. Much like how I don't mind hearing a comedian make such jokes, provided their act isn't a racist tirade against one particular group and is equally insulting towards everyone. If you're being an asshole to be funny, and are equally insulting to everyone, that's not really racism. It might not be a style of humor everyone enjoys, but it's not racism.

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1 hour ago, ContraBardus said:

 

If we ignore racism it will go away, right?

 

I'm sure this meme will build strong bridges between the races. People will see it and the light will come on.....  I'm doubtful of that. I think a better way is to treat people well. Forget race.

 

That'll totally work.

.

Why won't it?

 

Even if it was created by a racist, a broken clock is right twice a day and all that.

.

I understand the points you and others have presented in the thread. One good turn deserves another, tit for tat, an eye for an eye... nobody should discriminate against anyone else.

 

The merits of the specific argument of the OP meme image are what we're discussing here. It's a valid criticism, so why should we bury it?

.

I know what 'you' are talking about. I am also talking about the meme. And I'm doing it the way I choose. Not the way you choose. I do understand it's a joke. It's satire. It's a valid criticism, etc. But I would not be  posting it on any of my black friends' or relatives facebook feeds for their humorous enjoyment. Would you? Yes, it's pretty tame, but it does stir shit up. Why is a moderator stirring shit up? Arent they supposed to be like neutral? Take the high road? Guess that's my silly thinking again. Anyway, I've digressed and I know that will not be tolerated.

 

As I said, there has been some questionable stuff posted here in the past. I'd agree if someone commented that such posts are insensitive and would be willing to discuss whether or not they are appropriate for this forum, but this one isn't one of those posts. It makes a valid point to a phenomenon I've already shown is an issue. Not as big a one as the racism PoC face, but that doesn't excuse it.

.

Well, some people here disagree with you regarding the appropriateness of the meme presented. But hey, it's ex-c. We're very inappropriate here. Especially towards theists. I really don't give a shit if it's posted or not. I'm just expressing my opinion that it doesnt promote any positive effect. 

 

That said, if a racist post was made as a joke in a thread full of jokes that target a wide variety of people, I'd have a lot less of a problem with it. Much like how I don't mind hearing a comedian make such jokes, provided their act isn't a racist tirade against one particular group and is equally insulting towards everyone. If you're being an asshole to be funny, and are equally insulting to everyone, that's not really racism. It might not be a style of humor everyone enjoys, but it's not racism.

.

You're getting off topic, sir. :)

 

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1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

 

Why should moderators be neutral when it comes to participating in discussions? Why can't they speak their minds as openly as the rest of us?

 

As long as they are fairly moderating everyone else, and they do for the majority of the forums, very well in fact.

 

It's already been established pretty well that this area is intentionally more relaxed as far as moderation goes. It is not a "safe space" and controversial topics are fair game.

 

This isn't some Nazi supporting nonsense. It's not a racist meme, and is fact directly criticizing racism and stating that racism goes in both directions, and that is a factual statement.

 

My issue is that no one has presented a valid reason why it shouldn't be posted, or exactly why it is so offensive and insensitive. It makes a credible point and I've already shown exactly what kind of thinking it is satirizing.

 

I keep hearing something to the effect of "Yeah, it's valid, but..." and then nothing that really justifies the "but".

 

The only reasoning I keep hearing is that "People could take it the wrong way and might be offended" and I stand by my banana split post. It was a bit satirical, but also makes a point that effectively counters that sentiment. People get offended by Pizza toppings.

 

170611-hawaiian-pizza-se-1035p_07e99ba92

 

raw&f=1

 

Simply being offended is not justification for censorship. You've got to provide a valid reasoning for what the meme does that is so wrong, and no one has yet provided a solid reason for why the OP image is something we shouldn't allow here. All I'm really seeing is arguments that it made some of us uncomfortable and that people "might" take it the wrong way. No one owes you comfort, and taking something the wrong way is a problem on the offended party's end.

 

If this was a serious post about how "Hitler did nothing wrong, Jews are the cause of the world's problems, and black people are inferior," I could see a discussion about why that shouldn't be allowed even here. We aren't a white supremacist site and I could see that causing problems for us on the whole. However, this post is actually the opposite of something like that, the entire point is that racism is wrong no matter what group it is directed at, including white people. That's not a negative message.

 

No one has provided a good argument why this is so out of line.

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You see it your way and some other people see it a different way. That's all. No biggy. It's not the end of the world, by any means.

 

Nobody is going to be able to 'make' you see it their way. I don't believe anyone is going to be able to provide you with some reasoning against the posting of the meme. We're on page 4 now and you're pretty solid with the meme being fine.

 

Whatever. On to bigger and better things now.

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Oh look. Another stupid thread.

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On 4/24/2018 at 11:07 PM, Bhim said:

 

Haha, did I once hate you and forget why?

 

Yes! You hated me once when I showed I knew more about asstrofiziks than you do.   Just kidding. We always got along great, I was just paying a compliment. 

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On 4/25/2018 at 1:06 PM, mymistake said:

 

Mine were Orangemen.  I don't know if they faced discrimination when they first arrived but they got away from the big cities as soon as they could and settled in farmland.  So I suspect the discrimination was less out in the rural areas.  Don't know for sure because I don't have any accounts regarding discrimination from that time and place.  They only wrote down where they lived or who they had as family.

 

Odd that now you hate Orange people with ancestors from the U.K.  :scratch:

 

Plus, it sounds like you are looking to be a victim descended from victims. 

Maybe they only wrote down where they lived or who they had as family because they didn't need to be bitchy about every little perceived slight? Thank God your past peeps were tough like mine were or this country never would have been built.

 

Oh, and there was no 'big flip' where the R and D teams went in at half-time and came out wearing each others uniforms and just kept playing. I've had people try to pull that bull on me before. It's laughable.

 

I showed you how the voting went on the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments. It was less than a year ago that I saw a Republican President say at his State of the Union address that black unemployment was at a historic low, and watched the Democrat party, and especially the Democrat Black Caucus, sit on their hands. 

Why? Because they wanted this lady to be President:

 

 ZZWdwG_S1XVLB2xLVAs_17sDwK-6uyv9poeelKjA8Tk.jpg?w=898&s=31948426664ea1d55a268d647b9139ff

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10 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

 

Odd that now you hate Orange people with ancestors from the U.K.  :scratch:

 

Plus, it sounds like you are looking to be a victim descended from victims. 

Maybe they only wrote down where they lived or who they had as family because they didn't need to be bitchy about every little perceived slight? Thank God your past peeps were tough like mine were or this country never would have been built.

 

Oh, and there was no 'big flip' where the R and D teams went in at half-time and came out wearing each others uniforms and just kept playing. I've had people try to pull that bull on me before. It's laughable.

 

I showed you how the voting went on the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments. It was less than a year ago that I saw a Republican President say at his State of the Union address that black unemployment was at a historic low, and watched the Democrat party, and especially the Democrat Black Caucus, sit on their hands. 

Why? Because they wanted this lady to be President:

 

 ZZWdwG_S1XVLB2xLVAs_17sDwK-6uyv9poeelKjA8Tk.jpg?w=898&s=31948426664ea1d55a268d647b9139ff

 

I hope there was some tongue involved in that.

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On 4/25/2018 at 6:55 PM, midniterider said:

Why is a moderator stirring shit up? Arent they supposed to be like neutral?

 

Like, no.

 

Besides, there seems to a pretty equal balance of moderators here. Some are left-wing dooshnozzles and some are normal smart people like me. :D

 

I've even seen moderators moderating other moderators. 

 

Posting an interesting meme that is worth talking about is hardy the same as "stirring shit up". All of the shit stirring seems to be coming from us proles.

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2 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

I hope there was some tongue involved in that.

There was...

 

Dude's tongue, that is... He was licking his monitor when he saw that pic of Hillary.

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