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TrueScotsman

55 Dead 2,700 Injured Along Gaza Strip

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The Trump administrations' choice to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and establish an embassy there has given the Palestinians little hope for a two state solution, as they recognize Jerusalem as well as their capital.  This has enraged the population and led to a mass casualty situation along the Israeli border.  Hamas has been greatly empowered by this move, and the US is no longer trusted to be an honest broker of peace, with him being a rallying call for Hamas.  

 

If you want to empower the Conservative Zionists in Israel and domestically gain the appreciation of doomsday loving evangelicals, this was a great move.  If you long for a peaceful solution in Palestine, then this situation is now officially fucked.  55 Dead while the administration celebrates peace, what a world we live in when religious dogma dominates geopolitical concerns.

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Does Israel have the right to exist and make it's own decisions? 

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3 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

Does Israel have the right to exist and make it's own decisions? 

First of all, Israel was an Imperialist creation by the British Empire fueled by Zionists to establish a political entity which had not existed for two millennia.  It should never have been created in the first place.  However, reality has to be accepted, and there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.  Israel will continue to exist, but what of the Palestinians who lived in the land beforehand?  Do they not have a right to exist and to self-determination?  I think a two-state solution in which Jerusalem is split in two is the only way peace will be achieved given the circumstances.  Israel is running an apartheid state at present, and that is empowering Hamas, peace will never be achieved through the terms sought by Conservatives in Israel who are slowly colonizing Palestinian lands.  Israel must make concessions or the region will blow up, much worse than any previous conflict.

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20 minutes ago, TrueScotsman said:

First of all, Israel was an Imperialist creation by the British Empire fueled by Zionists to establish a political entity which had not existed for two millennia.  It should never have been created in the first place.  However, reality has to be accepted, and there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.  Israel will continue to exist, but what of the Palestinians who lived in the land beforehand?  Do they not have a right to exist and to self-determination?  I think a two-state solution in which Jerusalem is split in two is the only way peace will be achieved given the circumstances.  Israel is running an apartheid state at present, and that is empowering Hamas, peace will never be achieved through the terms sought by Conservatives in Israel who are slowly colonizing Palestinian lands.  Israel must make concessions or the region will blow up, much worse than any previous conflict.

 

Are you aware that  Chuck Schumer praised making Jerusalem the new home of the embassy?  What would you do if Israel chooses not to make concenssions?  What do you do then? 

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/chuck-schumer-jerusalem-embassy-trump-is-right/ 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

Are you aware that both Chuck Schumer and Bernie Sanders endorsed and voted to ratify making Jerusalem the new home of the embassy?  What would you do if Israel chooses not to make concenssions?  What do you do then? 

Not a fan of Schumer, nor have I stated that I endorse all of Bernie's policies.  Had he been president and made this same decision, I would be heavily criticizing him too.  

 

If Israel fails to make concessions, it would be more about what the rest of the ME does and not me.  Without such concessions, evangelicals just might get that cataclysmic war they are hoping for, my desire is for sustainable peace.  That isn't going to be achieved on the current course, don't believe me, ask the Palestinians.

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14 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

Are you aware that  Chuck Schumer praised making Jerusalem the new home of the embassy? 

 

That doesn't make it the right decision.

 

14 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

What would you do if Israel chooses not to make concenssions?  What do you do then? 

 

 

Complain about it on the internet.  I'm not the head of a state.

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1 minute ago, mymistake said:

 

That doesn't make it the right decision.

 

 

 

Complain about it on the internet.  I'm not the head of a state.

MM..

 

Does Israel have a right to exist? 

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10 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

MM..

 

Does Israel have a right to exist? 

 

 

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?  Next you will accuse me of having Aspergers or of supporting baby murderers.  Don't just make crap up when the conversation doesn't go your way.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, mymistake said:

 

 

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?  Next you will accuse me of having Aspergers or of supporting baby murderers.  Don't just make crap up when the conversation doesn't go your way.

 

 

 

I just asked a simple question.  You chose not to answer it.  Fine. 

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38 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

I just asked a simple question.  You chose not to answer it.  Fine. 

 

 

You asked a loaded question.  Like "When are you going to stop rapping people?".  If I had been calling for the destruction of Israel then it would be appropriate to ask.  Have I ever done that in all the years I have been here?  Never once.  How do you go form "Which city is the best for a capitol?" to "Do you want genocide?".

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1 minute ago, mymistake said:

 

 

You asked a loaded question.  Like "When are you going to stop rapping people?".  If I had been calling for the destruction of Israel then it would be appropriate to ask.  Have I ever done that in all the years I have been here?  Never once.  How do you go form "Which city is the best for a capital?" to "Do you want genocide?".

 

 

Does Israel have the right to exist?  

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27 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

 

Does Israel have the right to exist?  

 

 

What the fuck is your problem?

 

Forget it.  I'm just going to put you back on ignore.  Call me a genocidal mass murderer behind my back.  I must deserve it for thinking one city would make better capitol than another. 

 

 

 

"Tell us MM, why do you enjoy genocide so much?"

 

"Well that is a great question!  I'm glad you asked!  I love genocide because no reason . . .  no reason at all."

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Just now, mymistake said:

 

 

What the fuck is your problem?

 

It was a simple question.  A simple yes or no would work. 

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13 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

It was a simple question.  A simple yes or no would work. 

Go make your own thread with that question, that isn't the point of this thread.  Of course you won't address the situation specifically, you keep running off to this stupid question.

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1 minute ago, TrueScotsman said:

Go make your own thread with that question, that isn't the point of this thread.  Of course you won't address the situation specifically, you keep running off to this stupid question.

 

If you don't want to anwer it, FINE.  DON'T!

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2 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

If you don't want to anwer it, FINE.  DON'T!

I did, a courtesy, but at this point it has derailed the thread.  Get on topic or GTFO.  Mkay.

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Just now, TrueScotsman said:

I did, a courtesy, but at this point it has derailed the thread.  Get on topic or GTFO.  Mkay.

 

It is pertinent to the thread.  If Israel can make Jerusalem it's capitol, and we have our embassies in all other countries in their declared capitol, should this not be any different?  

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2 hours ago, TrueScotsman said:

If you want to empower the Conservative Zionists in Israel and domestically gain the appreciation of doomsday loving evangelicals, this was a great move.  If you long for a peaceful solution in Palestine, then this situation is now officially fucked.  55 Dead while the administration celebrates peace, what a world we live in when religious dogma dominates geopolitical concerns.

 

I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before the US diplomatic mission get targeted.  I wouldn't be surprised if our new embassy becomes the bull's eye.  (Perhaps our current embassy as well.)  This isn't going to get better on its own.

 

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23 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

 

It is pertinent to the thread.  If Israel can make Jerusalem it's capitol, and we have our embassies in all other countries in their declared capitol, should this not be any different?  

I think we should eventually, but you can't treat foreign policy like a fill in the blank questionnaire.  Palestine (you know the people who lived there before we made the State of Israel) also recognizes Jerusalem as their capital, find me another example of this scenario in the world and we can talk about the relevancy of your claim.  By all observations it fails to address the complexity of the problem, and that there are two peoples, the Israelis and Palestinians who have a right to exist and have to indeed coexist in that region.  Recognizing Jerusalem the capital of Israel before the peace negotiations signals to the Palestinians that the US is not in favor of a two state solution, and that greatly empowers Hamas, since the people of Palestine then believe there is no other way out except through force.  This closes the door on diplomacy, only violence will come of it, as was demonstrated today.

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Play stupid games, win high and medium projectiles in return.

 

KSA, Qatar, Kuwait,  damn near all the other oil wealthy counties 'might', 'could', 'should' be helping their poor Muslims raise from poverty.

They choose to not extend aid in any meaningful method..  Ever ask why? 

 

So as American taxpayers do we continue allowing very powerful lobbyists on both sides to continue to push buttons, pull heartstrings?  Or as most might prefer let them fight their own battles?

 

Count me in the totally antipathy towards whole mess vote.  Cut off any support, allow whatever pans out to happen.

 

kL

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1 hour ago, SkipNChurch said:

Play stupid games, win high and medium projectiles in return.

 

KSA, Qatar, Kuwait,  damn near all the other oil wealthy counties 'might', 'could', 'should' be helping their poor Muslims raise from poverty.

They choose to not extend aid in any meaningful method..  Ever ask why? 

 

So as American taxpayers do we continue allowing very powerful lobbyists on both sides to continue to push buttons, pull heartstrings?  Or as most might prefer let them fight their own battles?

 

Count me in the totally antipathy towards whole mess vote.  Cut off any support, allow whatever pans out to happen.

 

kL

The Arab League nations have been substantial donors for many years, your characterization of them not helping at all is false.  No reason to ask why with this false assertion.

 

The fact of the matter is, we in the West displaced these people and have put them in an apartheid like situation for many decades.  And you might have antipathy, but it might be our kids who have to fight and die over Israel's inability to make a compromise.  

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4 minutes ago, TrueScotsman said:

The Arab League nations have been substantial donors for many years, your characterization of them not helping at all is false.

 

Follow these supposed millions TS.  Where is the money?  Takes more time to type search parameters than receive numbers that add into close to a big t Trillion usd's supposedly banqued for East Palestine.

Where is that cash or it's use gone?

 

Not gone to homes, water wells, food growth, schooling, medical needs, other important infrastructure.  Nor has it gone to say possibly placing 'Palestinians' on a better hunk of better ground capable of sustaining growth.

 

This bit of altruistic polarization of situation better settled by actors on ground there. Ought not be settled by our kids any more. We, the Occidental Nations have given blood and Trillions already.  

Fucking savages still toss rocks and try everything they can to destroy according to their 'faith'.  

 

What we are doing in midst of thousands of years of tribal war is stupid and criminal.  Aiding and abetting,  compelling other Nations States to continue using people as pawns.  Seeing how well new war toys work as we peddle our old stocks to our erstwhile allies for cheap so as to finance new ones.

 

Never ends.  Palestine is just one pitiful little part of a game you seem to know some of the area/regions history of.  There has never been a kind, quiet peaceful overall outcome from any kingdom or empire  for any length.

 

Do I condone Mossad for using their suppressed 10/22 systems, shooting at knees, crotches, guts of rioters? 

Does using full power ammunition from real assault rifles and belt fed machineguns, smoke/gas cannisters, non-lethal rounds, other contact worry me?

Not for a single minute.  Not my riot, not my hickory PR-24.

 

You might argue again about humanity of situations there. I'd rather we take care of those festering wounds in UnkaShams side here in these united States  long before worrying about shit we'll never change.

 

kL

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22 minutes ago, SkipNChurch said:

 

Follow these supposed millions TS.  Where is the money?  Takes more time to type search parameters than receive numbers that add into close to a big t Trillion usd's supposedly banqued for East Palestine.

Where is that cash or it's use gone?

 

Not gone to homes, water wells, food growth, schooling, medical needs, other important infrastructure.  Nor has it gone to say possibly placing 'Palestinians' on a better hunk of better ground capable of sustaining growth.

 

This bit of altruistic polarization of situation better settled by actors on ground there. Ought not be settled by our kids any more. We, the Occidental Nations have given blood and Trillions already.  

Fucking savages still toss rocks and try everything they can to destroy according to their 'faith'.  

 

What we are doing in midst of thousands of years of tribal war is stupid and criminal.  Aiding and abetting,  compelling other Nations States to continue using people as pawns.  Seeing how well new war toys work as we peddle our old stocks to our erstwhile allies for cheap so as to finance new ones.

 

Never ends.  Palestine is just one pitiful little part of a game you seem to know some of the area/regions history of.  There has never been a kind, quiet peaceful overall outcome from any kingdom or empire  for any length.

 

Do I condone Mossad for using their suppressed 10/22 systems, shooting at knees, crotches, guts of rioters? 

Does using full power ammunition from real assault rifles and belt fed machineguns, smoke/gas cannisters, non-lethal rounds, other contact worry me?

Not for a single minute.  Not my riot, not my hickory PR-24.

 

You might argue again about humanity of situations there. I'd rather we take care of those festering wounds in UnkaShams side here in these united States  long before worrying about shit we'll never change.

 

kL

What are your sources for where the money went please provide them.  Obviously a lot of money went to Hamas, particularly from Iran in its ongoing proxy war against Israel and the US, but your claims that none of this went to actual aid I don't find supported anywhere.

 

This is a modern war, the British Empire relocated Jews which had lived in Europe for millennia after the Holocaust to Palestine because the US nor Great Britain wanted to take them in as well as lobbying from Zionists.  It was this act that enraged the region, in displacing Palestinian Arabs and setting up a state based upon a Biblical and largely mythological history.  The United States supported the decision and has been the biggest ally of Israel since, for you to say it is none of our business seems to ignore the fact that for many decades it has intimately been our business.

 

If you were a Palestinian, living in abject poverty, no hope, living under the oppressed rule of a people who came to occupy your land due to the intervention of a foreign power, what would you do?  Humanity trumps Nationalism, if we ignore the plight of the rest of the world which we have indeed created, it will come home to haunt us, appealing to borders does not confine us away from the problems, and the Trump administration's decision here may well make us targets for more terrorist extremists.  Peace is in our best interest, both from a humanitarian perspective and from the perspective of our national interest.  We can't just ignore recent history and wipe our hands of it.

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Why should my tax dollars go to something that is an internal fight between two groups inside a nation that hate each other?  Humanity is a convenient battle cry, but it is not a real one.  Why did we not intervene in the Rawandan genocide?  That was under Clinton.  Nobody gave a shit then, why now?  I think the issue is just because it is Trump who is hated and any convenient excuse to throw verbal shit at him. 

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50 minutes ago, Burnedout said:

Why should my tax dollars go to something that is an internal fight between two groups inside a nation that hate each other?  Humanity is a convenient battle cry, but it is not a real one.  Why did we not intervene in the Rawandan genocide?  That was under Clinton.  Nobody gave a shit then, why now?  I think the issue is just because it is Trump who is hated and any convenient excuse to throw verbal shit at him. 

We did intervene in Rwanda, just to get our people out, and we should have intervened further to prevent another genocide.  Clinton later went there and apologized.  Many people have plenty of shits.  Humanity is much more real than national identity, their suffering trumps abstract borders, this is way bigger than Trump and your caricature of it being such is just more slander of an opposition you repeatedly fail to understand.  Just because you don't give a shit, doesnt mean that others don't.  

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