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Borticus

Why is sexual immorality so evil in the Bible.

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Many sins such as rage and jealousy get their fair share of bashing in the book, but it seems sexually related “sins” seem to get the shaft in a large portion of the Bible. Paul even goes far enough to say that no sexually immoral person shall ever inherit the kingdom of God. What is with the animosity towards it?

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32 minutes ago, Borticus said:

Many sins such as rage and jealousy get their fair share of bashing in the book, but it seems sexually related “sins” seem to get the shaft in a large portion of the Bible. Paul even goes far enough to say that no sexually immoral person shall ever inherit the kingdom of God. What is with the animosity towards it?

 

 

Sex is real.  God isn't real.  The only way for Christianity to compete with sex is to twist it around so that all sex flows from the Church.  Men need to get married.  Women need to satisfy their husband's needs.  Married couples need to have kids and raise their children in church so the cycle continues.

 

When young people grow up and follow their heart to have natural relationships with those who are willing they soon realize that Christianity is messed up. 

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I didn't get through all of it, but I skimmed the highlights of the Royal Wedding. I noticed how the priest laid out a definition of marriage which is consistent with the above observation. Basically sex flows through the confines of the marriage, through the church. 

 

I think the old school treatment of sex in the bible speaks of people trying to pull away from the all out debauchery that went on back in those times. With the doctrine of fallen nature, came this sense of human beings not being animals, and therefore not conducting themselves like the animals - dogs alpha humping one another, etc. etc. Humans were to behave according to social beliefs that set them above and beyond the natural world. Looking over to Greece and Rome, all sorts of debauchery was taking place from pedophilia to rampant bisexuality and everything else we know from the historical records. But there it was a social norm. To the Jews, who had developed this belief that nature was fallen and man is to act in ways above and beyond nature they looked down at neighboring societies who participated in basically unrestricted sexual manners, like a bunch of animals. They looked down on that, and condemned it pretty hard. That's also likely why circumcising took place - so the men did not resemble male animals, which, we're born resembling. It's very much a man verses nature thing. 

 

And over time that eventually turned into what we see from Paul and how the churches assumed the control positions that they have. But I really suspect that it all boils down to the game of pretending that we're not animals, when we actually are. 

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A lot of (in my opinion most, if not all) Christians who pay lip service to strict sexual morality don't actually follow those rules (but with varying degrees of success in hiding their debauchery). Sex is a very basic biological desire (I don't know if it constitutes a "need" in the survival sense, but it comes close to it) and restricting it too much pretty much guarantees some kind of slip or failure. I think that's kind of the point - making rules about desires that are so strong that most people can't follow it, and then shaming them for it and bludgeoning their sense of self-worth out of them. People whose self-esteem is in ruins after hiding their sins for many years and failing to follow the rules for salvation are easier to manipulate and control then followers who are comfortable and confident about following their code of morality. Automatic failure is built into the whole system, if you choose to play along with it.

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16 minutes ago, DestinyTurtle said:

A lot of (in my opinion most, if not all) Christians who pay lip service to strict sexual morality don't actually follow those rules (but with varying degrees of success in hiding their debauchery).

 

I have a saying about the most pious being likely to also be the most devious. I've seen way too much of it growing up in a fundamentalist sect not to recognize the likelihood. So taking that line of thinking back to old school ancient Judaism, what then are we looking at? 

 

Don't worship other gods, they worshiped other gods. 

 

Don't use astrology, they used astrological symbolism in the religion. 

 

Don't be sexually immoral. They were likely sexually immoral. 

 

I should look into that deeper and see what studies outline the sexual aspect of the ancient Jews just to follow up on the above logic. That's an area I haven't analyzed as closely as other areas.

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DestinyTurtle nailed it (pardon the pun). Sex is a huge motivation for all sexual forms of life, so when religion makes it seem bent or broken from the alleged original way, they have a perfect way to get believers to bludgeon themselves and re-submit on a regular basis. Every guy I knew in church went through regular sorrow and exasperation at jerking off and for finding girls (of sometimes guys) sexy. "I'm supposed to be born again, why is this happening?!" They claim all the promises and scripture verses over and over again, only to find that they are still 100% human and wired to lust. Lust is normal. Religion makes lust seem wrong, and provides not so much a cure as it does "forgiveness". None of us ever saw through it because we were convinced it was true, regardless of reality smacking us in the nuts every day saying "Go get some!!!". Life everywhere is driven to make more, or at least go through the motions.

 

Joshpantera also correctly points out the integration of other religions into Judaism. Anyone that seems to have power attracts attention. Magic has strongly attracted the Jews for known history. The stories about Jacob and the absurd goat breeding in front of striped wood to make striped goats was a form of magic. The floating ax-head trick from Elijah was another. The non-biblical tales of "golums" created by Jewish sorcerers to defend the Jews is pure magic (and hogwash). The "Star of David" is just a magic symbol from their time in Babylon (or perhaps Solomon who had wives from other religions), as is the pentacle seen in modern pagan paths. There is no evidence at all that it was used by David. I've read interviews with modern hookers who cater to the Orthodox Jews, and the guys have no qualms about sex with hookers, they just won't marry into such an arrangement.

 

The odd part for me is the strict no public display of affection in India. Given their history of pre-Christian sex, you'd think it would have reverted after the British left power. Instead the Hindu fundamentalists are super strict anti-touching in public, and a fundy was just elected leader in the Calcutta/Bangladesh area (or so I heard today). Here is a link to an article on this, though she doesn't provide a lot of footnotes:

https://www.ranker.com/list/love-and-relationships-in-ancient-india/rachel-souerbry

 

 

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Ever notice that sexual immorality isn't really defined in the New Testament?  I'm pretty sure that the rules in Leviticus were written specifically for the Levites, especially since there are instances in the Bible that defy those laws, like Onan marrying Timor, his sister-in-law, or Lot's daughters.  Ever wonder what the male temple prostitutes were doing there in the first place?  If it was illegal to use their services, why not outlaw them or simply kill them, which seems like the ancient Jew's answer for everything.

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1 hour ago, 1989 said:

Ever notice that sexual immorality isn't really defined in the New Testament?  I'm pretty sure that the rules in Leviticus were written specifically for the Levites, especially since there are instances in the Bible that defy those laws, like Onan marrying Timor, his sister-in-law, or Lot's daughters.  Ever wonder what the male temple prostitutes were doing there in the first place?  If it was illegal to use their services, why not outlaw them or simply kill them, which seems like the ancient Jew's answer for everything.

 

Yes.  Remember a Biblical marriage was between one man and all the women he could buy.  Samson's parents tried to get him to marry one of his relatives.  Abraham married his half sister and then allowed somebody else to marry her too.  (Christians try to make up excuses but really there is no excusing that)  Two sisters married the same man, Jacob.  Esther becomes queen of Persia because even though she was a virgin she was the absolute best at sex (the best out of thousands of women).  Ruth needed a husband so late one night she snuck into her cousin's (or was it her uncle's?) bed and said "cover me".  People could own sex slaves.  Even priests could own sex slaves.  Most women didn't choose their husbands but were sold by their fathers.  There was all kinds of sex in the Bible and much of it was immoral.

 

 

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On 5/20/2018 at 6:04 PM, Borticus said:

Many sins such as rage and jealousy get their fair share of bashing in the book, but it seems sexually related “sins” seem to get the shaft in a large portion of the Bible. Paul even goes far enough to say that no sexually immoral person shall ever inherit the kingdom of God. What is with the animosity towards it?

 

The New Testament was written by celibate monks who were secretly gay but hated themselves for being gay. This is really obvious in the Pauline epistles, and especially Revelation, where the author has the ultimate closet gay celibate fantasy of having 144,000 male virgins who inherit the Kingdom of God all to himself. Perhaps "the second coming" was just a secret in-joke?

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The issue of morality is something I've been engaged in lately from the perspective of intellectual dark web personalities like Jordan Peterson. He seems to think that western morality coming from Judeo-Christianity is not just great, but necessary to holding western culture together like glue. And here we are looking at this so called morality of the bible. It isn't all that moral, actually. It never really was to begin with. 

 

What I take from this is that morality has always been idealistic. Do as I say or imagine the world should be, do not do as I actually do. That summaries the morality of the bible. And so what if we loose it? It wasn't ever moral to begin with....

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Sex is an easy target and makes it easy to control with guilt. 

 

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On 5/20/2018 at 6:04 PM, Borticus said:

Many sins such as rage and jealousy get their fair share of bashing in the book, but it seems sexually related “sins” seem to get the shaft in a large portion of the Bible. Paul even goes far enough to say that no sexually immoral person shall ever inherit the kingdom of God. What is with the animosity towards it?

 

 

I think you might want to do some historical study and research into Paul. There is a growing number of historians that have come to the conclusion, based on the evidence, that Paul may have been just as fictional as Jesus. Paul's Epistles were discovered in the early second century and there is some evidence that points to Simon Magus as the author of "Paul's" Epistles. In any event Marcion, and his followers, almost assuredly edited, redacted, and rewrote those Epistles to theologically agree with his Marcion Gnostic theological beliefs. The Marcion Churches (Saved by faith not works, etc) were very popular for quite some time. 

 

You might want to check out "The Fabricated Paul" by Hermann Detering & "The Amazing Colossal Apostle" by Robert M. Price for more information about the supposed 13th Apostle. 

 

Comments:  "The Amazing Colossal Apostle" by Robert M. Price 

 

......The story of Paul is one of irony, the New Testament depicting him at the martyrdom of Stephen holding the assassins' cloaks. Then this same Paul is transformed into the biblical archetype for someone suffering for their faith. He becomes so entrenched, it would appear that he had walked with the Christians all his life, that he was the one who defined the faith, eventually being called the “second founder of Christianity.” But much of what we think we "know" about Paul comes from Sunday school stories we heard as children. The stories were didactic tales meant to keep us reverent and obedient.

As adults reading the New Testament, we catch glimpses of a very different kind of disciple—a wild ascetic whom Tertullian dubbed “the second apostle of Marcion and the apostle of the heretics.” What does scholarship tell us about the enigmatic thirteenth apostle who looms larger than life in the New Testament? The epistles give evidence of having been written at the end of the first century or early in the second—too late to have been Paul’s actual writings. So who wrote (and rewrote) them? F. C. Baur, a nineteenth-century theologian, pointed persuasively to Simon Magus as the secret identity of “Paul.” Robert M. Price, in this exciting journey of discovery, gives readers the background for a story we thought we knew.

 

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On 5/20/2018 at 5:04 PM, Borticus said:

Many sins such as rage and jealousy get their fair share of bashing in the book, but it seems sexually related “sins” seem to get the shaft in a large portion of the Bible. Paul even goes far enough to say that no sexually immoral person shall ever inherit the kingdom of God. What is with the animosity towards it?

 

I think it is actually more about bronze age tribal culture, and the Bible was simply used as a veneer for what the society had decided. Because inheritance through the male line was practiced, you had to be absolutely sure whose child was whose, therefore unauthorized rumpy-pumpy was actually a property/money issue. You couldn't have liasons that muddied the inheritance lines, hence the general emphasis on not being adulterous.

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Control. Everybody is sexual by nature. Sex is the best thing since Memphis Style Ribs. When a religion prohibits the best food, sex, and even thinking about sex, there is the formula to label everyone a sinner and therefore in need of the priesthood for guidance, forgiveness or punishment. People are made to feel so bad for being normal. It's a sick system but people don't seem to wise up.

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