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Joshpantera

Left, Right, or Center?

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I like to see myself as a centrist. I don't feel the need to wholly subscribe to any one set of beliefs.

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chart?ec=-4.38&soc=-6.51

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3 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Ok here ya go @LogicalFallacy

 

984999972_Screenshot2018-05-30at1_17_18PM.thumb.png.d5a4d83cbf090ab55486e2f914d50e9b.png

 

We're really close on his chart. 

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1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

We're really close on his chart. 

they say great minds think alike right? 😉

 

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23 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

they say great minds think alike right? 😉

 

 

And fools never differ... you ain't too far from me bud... it's the guns we disagree on ;) Updated:

 

Anybody thinking that Ex-C is mainly right leaning is well and truly empirically wrong! It's a huge cluster in the center left. Also very generally the more libertarian you tend to be the more left you lean. There is one exceptional outlier to that observation... why are we not surprised? :D;) 

 

Ex C Political new.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Image result for marlon brando biker movie

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On 5/31/2018 at 3:11 PM, Burnedout said:

LF,

 

"Why are we not surprised?"....

 

I assume you refer to me. 😉

 

It just goes to show, I am an original, and I don't run with the crowd.  Never have, never will. 😎

Haha that was a wink at your posting style.... 😉 and also you sit about where I'd place you if I had to guess so truly not surpirsed. Skip and fwee I'm surprised at... expected you guys to inhabit the same squares where you are and be more right. 

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On 5/30/2018 at 11:11 PM, Burnedout said:

I don't run with the crowd. 

 

I don't, either, and I presume the same can be said for plenty of others here. Just because several of us on this board are politically in the same quadrant does not mean that we're following each other or anyone else.

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On 6/2/2018 at 5:10 AM, Citsonga said:

 

I don't, either, and I presume the same can be said for plenty of others here. Just because several of us on this board are politically in the same quadrant does not mean that we're following each other or anyone else.

 

That's a good point. There's several of us on the left of center of that political quiz who lean liberal, but seriously question just about every claim coming from the left these days. Others aren't so skeptical. The skeptics, often times, are mistakenly accused of being on the right. But that's not actually the case. So I think it's good to recognize the diversity of opinion coming from the bottom, left of center quadrant. 

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Left, right, center?  Whatever one dimensional spectrum or two dimensional plane of ideology is presented, (or cube  @LogicalFallacy, you can do a tesseract next), I like to go (n+1) dimensions beyond it.  In other words, turn 90 degrees and move in a perpendicular direction, and place myself on the outside.  This is the only perspective that allows you to see the the pros and cons in their entirety.  I then curve the spacetime that these objects occupy so that all good ideas along each axis touch and discard the rest. 

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Hey all, instead of getting into personality issues here, I started a new thread just for that topic. I would be fun if everyone took a shot at that quiz as well, because it had come up during the discussion here that personality plays a big role in political differences: 

 

 

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Took test. Results nailed me very closely.

 

kL

 

 

istp-personality-type-header.png

 

YOUR PERSONALITY TYPE IS:
VIRTUOSO (ISTP-A)
istp.png
Oh, I know how to fix this.
MIND
This trait determines how we interact with our environment.
49%
EXTRAVERTED
51%
INTROVERTED
ENERGY
This trait shows where we direct our mental energy.
47%
INTUITIVE
53%
OBSERVANT
NATURE
This trait determines how we make decisions and cope with emotions.
67%
THINKING
33%
FEELING
TACTICS
This trait reflects our approach to work, planning and decision-making.
18%
82%
PROSPECTING
IDENTITY
This trait underpins all others, showing how confident we are in our abilities and decisions.
63%
ASSERTIVE
37%
TURBULENT
Results sent!
 
 
istp-personality-type-header.png

VIRTUOSO PERSONALITY (ISTP, -A/-T)

I wanted to live the life, a different life. I didn’t want to go to the same place every day and see the same people and do the same job. I wanted interesting challenges.

Harrison Ford

Virtuosos love to explore with their hands and their eyes, touching and examining the world around them with cool rationalism and spirited curiosity. People with this personality type are natural Makers, moving from project to project, building the useful and the superfluous for the fun of it, and learning from their environment as they go. Often mechanics and engineers, Virtuosos find no greater joy than in getting their hands dirty pulling things apart and putting them back together, just a little bit better than they were before.

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Sweet Jesus. I had to leave for a few days, and this is what I see when I get back?

 

LF, thanks for moving my dot. It still is a bit off from it's original spot in my quiz results. I was right of center, you put me left of center and then "corrected" my dot to the center itself. Still not accurate, and if you don't rectify this I'm going to have to question your authority as being keeper of the dot placement.

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On 5/30/2018 at 10:11 AM, DarkBishop said:

I feel that I am Center and try to pick out the good political points on both sides of the fence. I would love nothing more than to see the left and the right disappear all together and have americans live with happy middle ground policies that we can all either agree on or accept. 

 

That's nice. Who decides what is "middle ground" or for that matter who decides what is the "center"?  Who decided where this fence should go in the first place?

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On 5/29/2018 at 11:26 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Oh I see Dude has recruited you! What is your tolerance for misplaced dots? 0.5 points? :D 

 

I didn't recruit anyone, smiley. I didn't need to. Others can see that you need to be accurate or your chart means nothing. Deal with it.

 

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44 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

 

I didn't recruit anyone, smiley. I didn't need to. Others can see that you need to be accurate or your chart means nothing. Deal with it.

 

 

Oh look my middle finger just popped up!

 

Drats there is no middle finger emoji! I demand a middle finger emoji!

 

I'll go look for one.... hmmm

 

th.jpg

 

Take that you nerf herding whomp rat!

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10 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Drats there is no middle finger emoji! I demand a middle finger emoji!

 

 

:vtffani:

:Wendywhatever:

:devilfinger:

 

:jesus::yelrotflmao::jesus:

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10 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Oh look my middle finger just popped up!

 

Drats there is no middle finger emoji! I demand a middle finger emoji!

 

I'll go look for one.... hmmm

 

th.jpg

 

Take that you nerf herding whomp rat!

 

 

Just to add to what Buffetphan showed you...    🖕🏻   

You can't find middle finger emojis any better than you can find the right place to put a dot on a chart!  :rolleyes:

 

 

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No fair... that Buffetphan added those emojis after the fact. We know! Haha

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We took at least three different tests. LF used this one to map everyone on to. Between three tests I was less libertarian in this one than in the other two. And I came in left of center on this one, dead center on another, and just right of center on the third. Making for a moderate range left or right of center depending on the questions of which test. 

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@TrueScotsman Its irrlevant that the test might be biased. We all took the same test and when plotting the results we grouped (largely) around a common center point. At the least this shows we are answering questions very similar to our peers which shows we are fairly close politically - Closer than one would assume after reading our threads. I think we tend to ignore the huge amounts we agree on and go to war over our differences.   

 

Oh and welcome back. 😀

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FWIW I also have a generally negative opinion of the usefulness of the political compass test, and I think it's clear just from the way the results imply that a lot of us are closer together politically when it seems very obvious that there are some very striking political differences between us and it would be fairly easy to write a set of questions to tease those out.

 

Mostly though I think it's just a little out of date. I first took that test over a decade ago and I don't think it's changed. But the fault lines in American politics have moved around a bit.

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On 6/12/2018 at 1:01 PM, TrueScotsman said:

This post accurately sums up my thoughts on this Political Compass, it is heavily biased towards Libertarianism.

 

Political Compass is fundamentally constructed as a recruiting tool for the Libertarian movement. It asks loaded questions that put you in the "libertarian" quadrant. It also places all establishment elites as being "authoritarian" regardless of their actual beliefs so they can appeal to the populist sympathies of their target audience.

There's a fundamental problem with the entire concept of "the chart" as well. The traditional 1-dimensional left-right chart is not an objective measure of political ideology, it's an assessment of party grouping tendencies within an isolated political community. The 2 or sometimes 3 dimensional political charts that are popular all over the Internet make the fundamentally wrong assumption that objective ideology exists in ratios of adherence to a quantifiable set of principles. In reality, different ideologies think in completely different terms that are fundamentally foreign to each other. A liberal and a marxist see the concept of "equality" in completely different and incompatible terms. They are not diametrically opposed, and there are other ideologies that think of the concept in yet another way that's equally incompatible with either. There are no degrees of ideology except in people trying to reconcile cognitive dissonance (which is not uncommon among those without political education).

When many different ideologies that see the world in completely incompatible terms come together to form a government, they are forced to make compromises and ally themselves with those who prioritize similar policy (even if it's for a different ideological justification). The nature of these groupings is fluid and best described in the terms of the one-dimensional left-right chart. It makes no claim to be an objective prescription of ideology, just a descriptive way to group factions that work together to make policy.

Basically, people are struggling to find identity and appropriated a legitimate political science tool that was designed for a different purpose to do so. The minority groups, like libertarians, figured out that the linear model doesn't help them construct a separate identity from the greater party coalitions and changed it to better support their ideological narrative. Now that we have the Internet, everyone has started making their own derivative charts that support their ideological mythology. In reality, the chart says a lot more about the person who made it than it does about anyone trying to place themselves on it.

Link: 

 

 

So I went and redid this test trying to answer the questions in what I thought should be an authoritarian mindset, to see if there's a flaw in the test that renders libertarian all the time. This was the result: 

 

personalised chart

I was going for the way I thought a left wing authoritarian might answer. And it did put me in the ball park. So I'm inclined to think that there's no big flaw with the test itself. Nor a recruitment tool for the libertarian party. Although it is outdated and it would be better to have the questions more current. 

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Oh well. Nothing gained by putting an umbrella over my back now as festivities have been busted.

Josh and all who took tests, this still is an interesting way to find introductions to those participants and their results.
*I* do feel not 'compared to" anyone else.  Quite interesting on a general graph where we have used  foundation materials building basis for discussion(s).

 

Nothing quite like having our lil garden party busted by the Self Anointed <edit for general unnecessary internal combustion temps>.

 

Oh well, hid the booze and weed until the cops are gone....

 

kL 

 

<mod stealth edit>
<are you sure?>

<yes, he's far too dumb unduly notice>

<afraid he might toss something dis-
gusiting at ME>
<shut up, hide, he will return, disappear this>

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34 minutes ago, TrueScotsman said:

Libertarian bias

 

OK, we'll wait until you leave to next another emergency intervention of Truth, Justice and Scotty's Way to bring our weed, booze, guns and condoms.

 

Damn would love to have a place on graph(s) for this somehow... Is 'it' measurable?  Crud, yellow rain on my bunbershoot....

 

kL 

 

edit: buNbershoot?  buMbershoot.  

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