It’s not about God, it’s about their livelihood

[Wolfee]

I play music in a non-denominational Christian Church. I went from being a non-believer to being a firm believer (not coincidentally after getting sober) back to being a non-believer after a few years of belief. Currently I still play music in the church, but can’t stand any of the religious stuff. I’m only attending because I love playing the music, regardless of the lyrical content, I just enjoy it and don’t take the lyrics literally or to heart.

 

Anyways, I’m seeing now that all the doctrine and all the things preached, while under the guise of “bringing people to Christ/salvation” and “furthering the kingdom”, etc., is really all about keeping the gears of the religious business turning. The preachers may truly be believers, but all their agenda directly and indirectly relates to facilitating the business that pays their bills. I went from disputing my belief in God and wondering if the Bible is true, to knowing that the Bible (true or not, doesn’t matter) is the sole doctrine that keeps the church in business; it MUST be true in the eyes of the church, the same as God MUST be real, regardless of whether any of it actually is. 

 

 Religious leaders have something which can’t really be proven and they are (whether they realize it fully or not) milking it for all it’s worth. The goal for the select few at the top of a church, is to brainwash the people to believe all of the church’s doctrine. I’ve learned to stop debating or trying to prove anyone wrong, because they won’t listen anyways. They are basically sales people marketing a product, that was marketed to them, and they bought it. The product is not only “belief in God”, it’s more like: “belief in tithing, belief in volunteering your time, belief in recruiting members (more paying customers), belief in living modest while being a cheerful giver, belief in spreading the gospel, belief in mission work, etc. etc.” 

 

Furthering the kingdom of God = Furthering the business that pays the bills. It’s a business arrangement that psychologically gives people peace by feeling like they are contributing to something great. In all reality, they are basically giving to a charity service that benefits a select few people in a big way.

 

I see all these atheist/Christian debates, and I feel like I’m passed that now. I feel like all the arguing over “is it real or make-believe” just takes the spotlight off of the big picture. It’s deeper than that. It’s about the money and the perks, not whether it’s actually real or not. People will believe anything that helps them with anxiety, life troubles, finding purpose, peace with dying, etc. The suggestibility of troubled people is very high.  I know because I’ve been there- believed that.

 

If the placebo fixes the ailment, isn’t it still a good product in the eyes of the patient? Would people still buy and sell it? Would they then defend their purchase? Would they want others to feel good like them? Yes.

[mymistake]

Welcome Wolfee.  You're right about the money.  I think some preachers believe what they preach and do the business stuff as a task that needs to be done.  But I think the really successful ones have to realize it's all about the money.  They don't get rich in that line of work without figuring it out.

[Wolfee]

 Firstly, thanks for the warm welcome, mymistake. I’m glad to be here and glad to have a place to share my thoughts.

 

I did skew my post quite a bit in the direction of many church leaders knowingly doing it just for the money. This is mainly due to my current pastor always talking about money and giving. He is overly concentrated on it and I do question his motives.

 

I should have phrased my rant in this way: Religion, as I see it, is a highly profitable business whose participants unknowingly perpetuate the money-making by thinking and preaching that all of the Bible is God’s word to us. If everyone stayed at home and believed in Jesus for their salvation (the only supposed requirement), the church would die. So the church doctrine that I referred to was mainly having to do with the Bible being God’s word. Because we all know that the Bible is used ad nauseum to justify all the things I listed that keep the church alive: Tithes, volunteers, and recruiting.

 

I do enjoy playing music, but I would really just like to see the churches die off. They are so toxic to people and they don’t even realize it. Not to mention the children who are being indoctrinated to not trust in themselves and to believe they are born inherently bad. It’s frustrating to see 

 

 

 

[disillusioned]

I used to play music in Church. I stopped playing before I stopped believing, but sometimes I still miss it. Wouldn't go back though. A couple of years ago, I went to a service for my niece's baptism at the church that my brother, my former pastor, and lots of my former friends have built. The whole thing felt...fake. Obviously a production, trying to sell something to people who want to buy it. 

[Geezer]

My wife is still a Christian and the Methodist Church she attends has an annual budget of $2+ million. That does't include donations taken up for special programs & events. A mega Presbyterian Church in our area has an annual budget of $12+ million. They have a membership of about 10,000. 

 

Religion is definitely big business with mega Churches pulling in multiple millions of dollars annually tax free. It is not uncommon for Pastors at mega churches to have a high six figure salary plus benefits. 

 

I've heard of preachers actually choosing a particular denomination (Mostly Southern Baptist) because they pay their preachers more than some other denominations. 

 

Whenever anyone says isn't about the money, you can bet your ass it's all about the money. 

[Blood]

8 hours ago, Wolfee said:

I play music in a non-denominational Christian Church. I went from being a non-believer to being a firm believer (not coincidentally after getting sober) back to being a non-believer after a few years of belief. Currently I still play music in the church, but can’t stand any of the religious stuff. I’m only attending because I love playing the music, regardless of the lyrical content, I just enjoy it and don’t take the lyrics literally or to heart.

 

Anyways, I’m seeing now that all the doctrine and all the things preached, while under the guise of “bringing people to Christ/salvation” and “furthering the kingdom”, etc., is really all about keeping the gears of the religious business turning. The preachers may truly be believers, but all their agenda directly and indirectly relates to facilitating the business that pays their bills. I went from disputing my belief in God and wondering if the Bible is true, to knowing that the Bible (true or not, doesn’t matter) is the sole doctrine that keeps the church in business; it MUST be true in the eyes of the church, the same as God MUST be real, regardless of whether any of it actually is. 

 

 Religious leaders have something which can’t really be proven and they are (whether they realize it fully or not) milking it for all it’s worth. The goal for the select few at the top of a church, is to brainwash the people to believe all of the church’s doctrine. I’ve learned to stop debating or trying to prove anyone wrong, because they won’t listen anyways. They are basically sales people marketing a product, that was marketed to them, and they bought it. The product is not only “belief in God”, it’s more like: “belief in tithing, belief in volunteering your time, belief in recruiting members (more paying customers), belief in living modest while being a cheerful giver, belief in spreading the gospel, belief in mission work, etc. etc.” 

 

Furthering the kingdom of God = Furthering the business that pays the bills. It’s a business arrangement that psychologically gives people peace by feeling like they are contributing to something great. In all reality, they are basically giving to a charity service that benefits a select few people in a big way.

 

I see all these atheist/Christian debates, and I feel like I’m passed that now. I feel like all the arguing over “is it real or make-believe” just takes the spotlight off of the big picture. It’s deeper than that. It’s about the money and the perks, not whether it’s actually real or not. People will believe anything that helps them with anxiety, life troubles, finding purpose, peace with dying, etc. The suggestibility of troubled people is very high.  I know because I’ve been there- believed that.

 

If the placebo fixes the ailment, isn’t it still a good product in the eyes of the patient? Would people still buy and sell it? Would they then defend their purchase? Would they want others to feel good like them? Yes.

 

"The suggestibility of troubled people is very high." 100% truth. it's what keeps the church in business. 

 

Plus it's also a huge ego-trip for the pastors. Look at John Hagee and that other nut from Texas speaking at the opening of the US Embassy in Jerusalem last week. Without religion, these nerds would be working at a car wash in some small town. 

 

 

[◊ DestinyTurtle ◊]

They're all judases with their 30 coins of silver, and what they're selling is your soul. Beware of the pyramid schemes!!

[Wolfee]

Thank you all for the feedback. It’s frustrating to still attend and witness this, as disillusioned put it, “fake-looking production” take place. If you ever get the chance to read “Unlimited Selling Power: How to Master Hypnotic Skills”, or similar books about conversational-hypnosis, you’ll get a better idea of how many preachers work their magic. Bible stories and the metaphor-filled Christian songs really get the imagination going. Lull the masses into a coma everybody Sunday and then you can fill their subconscious minds full of garbage that normally they would’ve filtered out. After enough reading about hypnotism, specifically related to the church, I feel like the people are really just victims to subconscious planting of ideas while their conscious mind is put to sleep.

[Wolfee]

*every Sunday

[florduh]

I know there are sincere pastors who aren't in it for the money. I used to have one, and to this day (25 years later) he is still plying his trade at the same location and living just above the poverty line. Obviously, if you maintain a building for a congregation to meet in there are associated expenses. It appears, though, that a lot of them are totally in it for getting rich off of the easily fleeced.

[Wolfee]

Well I guess my whole premise on this rant isn’t whether pastors realize they all they are doing is promoting and profiting from a big business by exploiting people’s guilt, shame, compassion, anxiety, etc. There are many who would do it for free, just to promote the gospel. However, those are the type of people that a business wants. Similarly, Christian music can be so beautiful and seemingly innocent, but many things of the lyrics still try to get people to think they are nothing without religion and that they are actually wretched people. The preacher’s sermons may seem innocent, but they are all just propaganda in pursuit of expanding a business at the expense of gullible people. Whether the preacher realizes it or not (does it for the money or not) doesn’t make it any better. They are simply as naive or gullible as the people they are trying to brainwash.