Knott

Trying to understand

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

How often have you and I had civil discourse in this forum?  I can think of a few.  But, if you're being honest, you know you don't come to The Den for civil discourse.  So, why are you here?  Be honest.

I've already stated I am aware of what triggers me to have less than civil conversations.  I don't care to share this information if you don't mind.  In other words, I know why it raises my blood pressure and why I respond.  The reason for being here is defending people from being intellectually bullied .....I don't see it as a good method to foster understanding.  Again, my question is, why do it?  Have had several conversations where different members are in disagreement from a scientific basis, yet each felt compelled to tell the Christian how they didn't have a clue......while simultaneously saying THEY had a clue.

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55 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

The word of truth.

Neither of you have been here long enough to know this is not an accurate statement.

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54 minutes ago, end3 said:

Neither of you have been here long enough to know this is not an accurate statement.

 

Have you looked in the ToT over the last year? Sure we might eviscerate the Christians who come through here proclaiming to know all and quickly find out they don't - but its nowhere near the level of internal throat slitting that goes on in the ToT.

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51 minutes ago, end3 said:

I've already stated I am aware of what triggers me to have less than civil conversations.  I don't care to share this information if you don't mind.  In other words, I know why it raises my blood pressure and why I respond.  The reason for being here is defending people from being intellectually bullied .....I don't see it as a good method to foster understanding.  Again, my question is, why do it?  Have had several conversations where different members are in disagreement from a scientific basis, yet each felt compelled to tell the Christian how they didn't have a clue......while simultaneously saying THEY had a clue.

If it bothers you so much, why not take a break for a little while.  god's big enough to hold down the fort while you catch some rest.

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9 hours ago, end3 said:

 

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

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7 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If it bothers you so much, why not take a break for a little while.  god's big enough to hold down the fort while you catch some rest.

Probably a good thought.

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6 hours ago, L.B. said:
8 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

.

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12 hours ago, end3 said:

Christianity hasn't always been meaningful to me.  Matter of fact, it wasn't much a part of my life until around 30.  Used to be wonderfully disgusted with evangelical bs.....mainly the TV evangelists.  Once it was though, it's been somewhat of a rock I can turn to regardless.  I've been a fundie, I used to do children's sermons, a deacon, etc.  I can't really imagine God not talking with me in those times or even now.  I have no answer other than I'm sorry, I'm sure there was a lot of pain.

 

I guess on some level I feel the need to defend people from the bully.  And I see intellectualism as a bully if used in that sense.  And that's the crux of my motivation.....don't be a dick.  Science is great, religion can be great, but don't be a dick.

 

I also guess it's unrealistic to imagine people progressing quickly from a state of hurt to a more mature state.   But please keep in mind, the opposite is true....that non-religion can hurt and religion can help.   

 

Thanks for your kind words. I had to resist the urge to say something sarcastic like "Aren't you special, that god talks to you," but....there's just really no need to say stuff like that. I have no real wish, ultimately, to take god away from you. If god is meaningful to you, who am I to try to force an answer or change your mind. I don't understand how you're able to live with what the god of the bible's behavior, particularly when the bible is in many ways unreliable....but to each their own. I can even see why you might view some ill-prepared christian as "being bullied" when they aren't ready for us. I really do get it. I don't know that I agree with you, since he did have the opportunity to look through how we talk to people in the lion's den and then subsequently made a username and kind of forced an encounter with us. I'm less inclined to view it as bullying when he puts himself here under no coercion by us or god. 

 

You and I can agree on not being dicks, thus saith @disillusioned. One of his great commandments :D 

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1 hour ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

Thanks for your kind words. I had to resist the urge to say something sarcastic like "Aren't you special, that god talks to you," but....there's just really no need to say stuff like that. I have no real wish, ultimately, to take god away from you. If god is meaningful to you, who am I to try to force an answer or change your mind. I don't understand how you're able to live with what the god of the bible's behavior, particularly when the bible is in many ways unreliable....but to each their own. I can even see why you might view some ill-prepared christian as "being bullied" when they aren't ready for us. I really do get it. I don't know that I agree with you, since he did have the opportunity to look through how we talk to people in the lion's den and then subsequently made a username and kind of forced an encounter with us. I'm less inclined to view it as bullying when he puts himself here under no coercion by us or god. 

 

You and I can agree on not being dicks, thus saith @disillusioned. One of his great commandments :D 

Thanks for the way you stated you points....lol.  (+1 A)

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14 hours ago, end3 said:

Christianity hasn't always been meaningful to me.  Matter of fact, it wasn't much a part of my life until around 30.  Used to be wonderfully disgusted with evangelical bs.....mainly the TV evangelists.  Once it was though, it's been somewhat of a rock I can turn to regardless.  I've been a fundie, I used to do children's sermons, a deacon, etc.  I can't really imagine God not talking with me in those times or even now.  I have no answer other than I'm sorry, I'm sure there was a lot of pain.

 

I guess on some level I feel the need to defend people from the bully.  And I see intellectualism as a bully if used in that sense.  And that's the crux of my motivation.....don't be a dick.  Science is great, religion can be great, but don't be a dick.

 

I also guess it's unrealistic to imagine people progressing quickly from a state of hurt to a more mature state.   But please keep in mind, the opposite is true....that non-religion can hurt and religion can help.   

I am not being the devil's advocate here ... but I think End has said one or two things here that need some addressing.

 

Whether we like it or not christianity DOES work for some people ... as obviously do other religions! I actually have a sister and brother in law I would feel quite sad if ever they de-converted. They have made it their whole life .... they DO get great joy out of it ...  they ARE people who DO live what they preach. For that I admire them! Do I talk christianity with them? No, never! They know I can be as dogmatic with what I believe! (or don't believe would be more correct!) I think they actually have learnt to respect me for my differences too. I think that is maturity ... and those that have been deeply hurt by christianity ... the further one gets away from it .. the wounds do heal, even though the scars may still show.

 

I was already on this site when End turned up ... I used to lock horns big time with him too! I respect him far more than the "hit and run" christians that seem to make it their mission to come here and evangelize and earn their gang patches then fuck off! Whether we like it or not ... End has been one of the VERY few to stick this site out and I am sure has appreciated some of the advice given by members in some of the struggles in life he has faced.

 

Life's challenges can be like a game with no rules ... how we face it is up to the individual! If someone is making a go of it and basically letting you live ... in my opinion ... live and let live!

But let some dick come and knock on my door and tell me I am a sinner and off to hell ... that is another story! Watch me react!!

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29 minutes ago, Realist said:

I am not being the devil's advocate here ... but I think End has said one or two things here that need some addressing.

 

Thank you sir.

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@TheRedneckProfessor

 

I had quoted end3 twice, but since I got his words from your post, the forum software regarded the quote as yours.

 

I don't know if anyone got to read my posts before I took them down, but I said what I had to say and in the apparent absence of a Delete function, I just edited the posts.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

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9 hours ago, ag_NO_stic said:

 

Thanks for your kind words. I had to resist the urge to say something sarcastic like "Aren't you special, that god talks to you," but....there's just really no need to say stuff like that. I have no real wish, ultimately, to take god away from you. If god is meaningful to you, who am I to try to force an answer or change your mind. I don't understand how you're able to live with what the god of the bible's behavior, particularly when the bible is in many ways unreliable....but to each their own. I can even see why you might view some ill-prepared christian as "being bullied" when they aren't ready for us. I really do get it. I don't know that I agree with you, since he did have the opportunity to look through how we talk to people in the lion's den and then subsequently made a username and kind of forced an encounter with us. I'm less inclined to view it as bullying when he puts himself here under no coercion by us or god. 

 

You and I can agree on not being dicks, thus saith @disillusioned. One of his great commandments :D 

 

I am merely a messenger. A Holy Prophet, if you will. All glory to His Noodlyness!

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15 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

I am merely a messenger. A Holy Prophet, if you will. All glory to His Noodlyness!

 

Forever and ever, Ramen. :) 

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17 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

I am merely a messenger. A Holy Prophet, if you will. All glory to His Noodlyness!

 

Ramen

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