Knott Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 28 minutes ago, mymistake said: Some of us are trying to understand you but you are not making it easy. Mostly my effort is out of curiosity. I'm just trying to figure out where you fit on the spectrum of Christian theology. Anyway, don't you think it is strange that a Christian would come to an ex-Christian website to talk about religion? I don't think it strange at all, after all I would be placed in the same category as you in some religions just because I don't attend a building, it gets very ridiculous. I have enjoyed most of the conversation but yea it is really meaningless just an outlet for beliefs. Like most of comments on articles you read online in the news people venting or whatever you would call their behavior. I know very few people that treat each other with that kind of nonsense in person. The online thing allows people to fly their colors and stay anonymous, snipers if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Knott said: Those that have taken the time to reason out the scriptures really didn't go far because they are convinced the bible is not true, no reason for an arguement, the mind is made up. So most have claims to what I have said without the knowledge of what I'm even saying. Judging based on how they see Christianity. This is a message that you do not hear in mainstream religion. So, if someone doesn't believe the bible...then they will stop studying it and not discover the unique and deep Knott Theology? But if someone already believes what the bible says....this will necessarily lead them to the Knott Theology? If so, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 So, if Christ is still in me from my baptism days....now what? Do I have to do something special? Should I think about Jesus 3 times a day? Do I need to read the bible now? How am I impacted by the Knott Theology? Or can I just go about my day as usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 2 hours ago, mymistake said: Anyway, don't you think it is strange that a Christian would come to an ex-Christian website to talk about religion? I guess on a very honest level, if one believes in hell, a person would come here to hopefully save people from hell. On a personal note, I was triggered to respond to the arrogance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Knott, my brother, don't let them beat you down. They are going for the, "why did we not all have the same experience" mode...."your theology is different". One I have counseled them on several times.....that they each, as individuals, ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted June 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, end3 said: Knott, my brother, don't let them beat you down. They are going for the, "why did we not all have the same experience" mode...."your theology is different". One I have counseled them on several times.....that they each, as individuals, ignore. I can only speak for myself, but I’ve been truly trying to understand what Knott believes. Trying to tease out his position that there can be no Ex-Christians. I do think I finally understand what he’s saying now, in that regard at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted June 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, end3 said: I guess on a very honest level, if one believes in hell, a person would come here to hopefully save people from hell. On a personal note, I was triggered to respond to the arrogance here. Hey end3, how long have you been here? Longer than me, I think. I would not want to be arrogant, but if we seem arrogant merely by virtue of asserting our atheism, so be it I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, end3 said: I guess on a very honest level, if one believes in hell, a person would come here to hopefully save people from hell. I wanted to hear Knott's view. I already understand you. I use to be the kind of Christian that tells themselves they believe in hell but not really. Hell is a fantasy you like to entertain. If you actually thought Hell was real you would act like the most extreme of extremists. 18 minutes ago, end3 said: On a personal note, I was triggered to respond to the arrogance here. That just drips with irony since you are one of the most arrogant members we have. 16 minutes ago, end3 said: Knott, my brother, don't let them beat you down. They are going for the, "why did we not all have the same experience" mode...."your theology is different". Every Christian's theology is different, if you look close enough. I would rather understand Knott for who he is rather than misjudge him by presuming. 18 minutes ago, end3 said: One I have counseled them on several times.....that they each, as individuals, ignore. It's not our fault that you create word salad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, ThereAndBackAgain said: Trying to tease out his position that there can be no Ex-Christians. I do think I finally understand what he’s saying now, in that regard at least. Can you enlighten me? Near as I can tell Knott rejects Once-Saved-Always-Saved and also rejects that we were Never-Truely-Saved. I'm wondering if he falls into some kind of Calvinism where the born again are still saved even if they call themselves ex-Christians but the non-chosen (not born again) are out of luck no matter what they call themselves or how much they attend church or not. I could be wrong. After all, his belief system doesn't have to be internally consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eowynesque Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, mymistake said: Can you enlighten me? Near as I can tell Knott rejects Once-Saved-Always-Saved and also rejects that we were Never-Truely-Saved. I'm wondering if he falls into some kind of Calvinism where the born again are still saved even if they call themselves ex-Christians but the non-chosen (not born again) are out of luck no matter what they call themselves or how much they attend church or not. I could be wrong. After all, his belief system doesn't have to be internally consistent. How is that not OSAS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Eowynesque said: How is that not OSAS? Well as I understand it, OSAS doctrine is about the prayer. You come to your pastor and the pastor guides you through the Sinner's Prayer and you are saved forever. Knott has expressed the view that it's about God acting. You can't pray your way to salvation. So Knott does share some elements of OSAS in that once God acted in your heart to make you Born Again you will always be saved. But it seems to me that there are differences in that God is the actor and if God doesn't turn you "born again" then you were never saved. I must admit, I am a bit confused by this thread so maybe I am completely off on Knott's belief. If so I do hope he corrects me. (edited for clarity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted June 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, mymistake said: Can you enlighten me? Near as I can tell Knott rejects Once-Saved-Always-Saved and also rejects that we were Never-Truely-Saved. I'm wondering if he falls into some kind of Calvinism where the born again are still saved even if they call themselves ex-Christians but the non-chosen (not born again) are out of luck no matter what they call themselves or how much they attend church or not. I could be wrong. After all, his belief system doesn't have to be internally consistent. Well, it took a while to tease this out. In the following post he did reject OSAS, but it seemed possible to me that he was rejecting it more because it is a view held by certain denominations that he didn't want to be associated with, rather than rejecting the concept itself. On 6/5/2018 at 1:54 PM, Knott said: The doctrine OSAS you are referring to is what denominations have put together in general and call it a gospel, no I don't agree with the doctrines of denominations reguardless of the position they claim. Used the term ex- in repect to the poster. That should answer your last question So then I pressed him on the matter and asked if I was correct in describing his beliefs in the three points below. He answered "Yes..." Is this somehow different from OSAS? I don't see how. 5 hours ago, ThereAndBackAgain said: Knott, I'm struggling a bit to understand here. Let's see if I can restate your beliefs and you tell me if I'm understanding you or where I'm not. I think your position is as follows... Christ entered me (I was born again) when I first believed. After that happened, nothing could change the fact that Christ lives in me and that I am saved. In line with (2) above, even though I no longer believe in God and I now deny the divinity of Jesus, Christ is still in me, I am still saved and I am Heaven-bound. Yes? No? Please use as few words as possible 4 hours ago, Knott said: Yes, in accordance with the cross and the finished work, in christ. He accomplished what humanity could not do in it self, rid themselves of the sin nature. That is the salvation of man, not what you believe about it, "it is finished." That is the reason Paul said we believe unto salvation, no repentance involved for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eowynesque Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 @Knott What is the role of human agency in your theology? Can I be born again against my will? Where does Romans 10:13 fit into all of this? Is that not a prayer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 9 hours ago, Eowynesque said: @Knott I believed in Christ in me. I was hung ho for the "relationship, not religion" bs. If I had found any evidence for Christ in me I would still believe. I pursued this "relationship" through a multitude of avenues and came up short. No Christ in me. You sir do knott know what you are talking about. Realize that your belief system needs logical fallacies to shore itself up. That should concern you. Ann, here's an example.... There is anecdotal evidence that points to something, maybe a god, both on the spiritual side of reality and the science side....but here we have E demanding Knott not having a clue.....logical fallacies....Yet in the same breath, she cannot adequately explain perfect logic nor how she or her brain derives such. It's this kind of shit that just bothers me. And this board is replete with this stuff.....because in order to reject one concept, we had to raise the other to some significant level to discount the other. Many here are big into science and education because that supports our level of reality at this moment......and it HAS to be totally true because there is no more potential for understanding. I gather some here are interested in legitimately knowing someone else, but Jiminy Crickets, I'm sure most of us understand where Knott is coming from. If you don't, you probably didn't get much Christian experience anyhow. Christ already. Let the man say his peace, it's on his heart, know where he is and maybe give him some points to consider. But the rudeness... I know, it's a ex-Christian website/subforum....but you would think, since everyone is so gd superior in knowledge, that understanding would prevail.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knott Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, ThereAndBackAgain said: I can only speak for myself, but I’ve been truly trying to understand what Knott believes. Trying to tease out his position that there can be no Ex-Christians. I do think I finally understand what he’s saying now, in that regard at least. I think what makes it hard to understand for people is it hasn't been readily discussed and looked at, not in religion anyway. As you know they are going to take 66 books of the bible and come up with one gospel, that is rank error. To say Paul holds the message for our dispensation is heretical, even some in here have deemed such, strange deal. The two extreme opposites, religion and whatever those in here consider themselves, having the same point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eowynesque Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, end3 said: Ann, here's an example.... There is anecdotal evidence that points to something, maybe a god, both on the spiritual side of reality and the science side....but here we have E demanding Knott not having a clue.....logical fallacies....Yet in the same breath, she cannot adequately explain perfect logic nor how she or her brain derives such. It's this kind of shit that just bothers me. And this board is replete with this stuff.....because in order to reject one concept, we had to raise the other to some significant level to discount the other. Many here are big into science and education because that supports our level of reality at this moment......and it HAS to be totally true because there is no more potential for understanding. I gather some here are interested in legitimately knowing someone else, but Jiminy Crickets, I'm sure most of us understand where Knott is coming from. If you don't, you probably didn't get much Christian experience anyhow. Christ already. Let the man say his peace, it's on his heart, know where he is and maybe give him some points to consider. But the rudeness... I know, it's a ex-Christian website/subforum....but you would think, since everyone is so gd superior in knowledge, that understanding would prevail.... What is his authority for saying that "those that have taken time to reason out the scriptures really didn't go far because they are convinced the Bible is not true"? How does he know how much people have reasoned, how far they went, or whether they were at one point convinced the Bible was/wasn't true. No true Scotsman right there. He can't possibly say he knows this. He believes it but he doesn't know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 18 minutes ago, end3 said: Ann, here's an example.... There is anecdotal evidence that points to something, maybe a god, both on the spiritual side of reality and the science side....but here we have E demanding Knott not having a clue.....logical fallacies....Yet in the same breath, she cannot adequately explain perfect logic nor how she or her brain derives such. End, so far we have been having a rather friendly conversation with our newcomer Knott. Do you really want to mess that up and start a theological war? 19 minutes ago, end3 said: It's this kind of shit that just bothers me. Your imagination is what bothers you. 20 minutes ago, end3 said: Many here are big into science and education because that supports our level of reality at this moment.... No. Normal people don't hate education because they are not afraid of it. 22 minutes ago, end3 said: I gather some here are interested in legitimately knowing someone else, but Jiminy Crickets, I'm sure most of us understand where Knott is coming from. If you don't, you probably didn't get much Christian experience anyhow. Christ already. Let the man say his peace, it's on his heart, know where he is and maybe give him some points to consider. But the rudeness... The rudeness wasn't enough for you so you just had to drop by and dial it up a few notches. Thanks for your contribution. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Eowynesque said: What is his authority for saying that "those that have taken time to reason out the scriptures really didn't go far because they are convinced the Bible is not true"? How does he know how much people have reasoned, how far they went, or whether they were at one point convinced the Bible was/wasn't true. No true Scotsman right there. He can't possibly say he knows this. He believes it but he doesn't know it So? Isn't the church full of these people? You are surprised some how? And weren't we all there at some level? But, the biggest message IN the Bible is to know others.....as we know Christ, as Christ knew God. Yeah, it hurts, but....help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, mymistake said: The rudeness wasn't enough for you so you just had to drop by and dial it up a few notches. Thanks for your contribution. Just trying to help brother Knott.....as the collective group can be a little much.......each having THEIR own experience, and each needing THEIR own validation regurgitated perfectly from one person. And do it quickly.... You don't seem to understand, so I was helping you along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, mymistake said: ... It's not our fault that you create word salad. Perhaps End3 can give Knott some lessons in how to compose more tasty word salads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knott Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 42 minutes ago, Eowynesque said: @Knott What is the role of human agency in your theology? Can I be born again against my will? Where does Romans 10:13 fit into all of this? Is that not a prayer? 1) to believe, but it is an act of god to birth you, you can not birth yourself (born again). No more than you did in the natual 2)no its a free will choice 3)again we believe unto salvation 4)don't ask me, how do people believe!! I know what they believe but how they do it however they want I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, end3 said: You don't seem to understand, so I was helping you along... No, you were not. Poisoning the environment isn't helping. And you don't know what Knott's theological views are so you can't tell us his opinion. Or am I wrong and you two have known each other for decades and discussed theology in every detail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eowynesque Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Knott said: 1) to believe, but it is an act of god to birth you, you can not birth yourself (born again). No more than you did in the natual 2)no its a free will choice 3)again we believe unto salvation 4)don't ask me, how do people believe!! I know what they believe but how they do it however they want I suppose What if I want to reject salvation once saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag_NO_stic Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 So, if I believed (really and truly with my whole heart) in Santa as a child....and have now been introduced to the truth. Am I not an ex-santa-believer? Or would you say I never believed in Santa at all, now that I know better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 24 minutes ago, sdelsolray said: Perhaps End3 can give Knott some lessons in how to compose more tasty word salads. Lol, ok, that was a little funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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